Reconstitution

[Edward Campbell]

The field army is a hard life, and while I don’t think emulating our model down here is ideal, there needs to be a happy medium of retention as well as new blood.

I know folks don’t like the concept - but making EVERYONE be an Infanteer (I’ll also accept Cbt Engineer and maybe Arty and Armor too) for their first 4 years has a lot of benefits.
Let folks remuster from that to other trades.

I believe there is a great deal of merit in that - the length of combat arms (Armd, Arty, Cbt Engr, Inf) service might be as short as two years after recruit/basic (Gp 1) training - but such a system would actually help the support arms and services, especially the highly technical trades by weeding out those who are poorly suited for military life before we invest too much time, money and effort in training them.

 

[TacticalTea]

In an attempt to synthesize the ideas so far:

"Do your common core 2-4 years, figure out who you are and what you like, then go back to school on our dime, and return to us with a trade, full time or part time."

 

[Furniture]

In an attempt to synthesize the ideas so far:

"Do your common core 2-4 years, figure out who you are and what you like, then go back to school on our dime, and return to us with a trade, full time or part time."

But do it with reservists, because the RegF is useless...

 

[daftandbarmy]

In an attempt to synthesize the ideas so far:

"Do your common core 2-4 years, figure out who you are and what you like, then go back to school on our dime, and return to us with a trade, full time or part time."

 

[Eye In The Sky]

That was pretty much my take on it, lots of buzz words, some problem definition, zero solutions. It’s basically an 80 page list of ideas and buzz words. We’re going to improve life for families by improving life for families.

I’m at the point where I see Line of Effort and I hit the Close button…I didn’t even bother. I’m betting it’s the typical CAF BS that seems to be the accepted norm with a different bow on the top of the package…

 

[markppcli]

But do it with reservists, because the RegF is useless...

A brief summery “retired Military officers convinced militia only path forward.”

Vague idea: for trades where this is workable, moving Basic (which could incidentally be shortened/adjusted/made trade and service-specific) and initial trades training to either First Unit or First Base would also mean creating a training cell, the staffing of which would provide a not-in-unit lines rotation for a healthy collection of other people who wouldn't need to move as often. Fleet School plus localized BMQ, effectively.

Hopefully all of this is happening at a base that's not driving off members, their partners, etc. due to remoteness, mouldy quarters, appalling CoL, and so on.

Yes absolutely yes. Shut down and sell the mega. Technical trades do their basic in Borden and then go on to their respective trades, Sigs can do their basic in Kingston at the school there, Infantry in their regimental depots ( actually my preference would be for the Infantry school with regimental companies but I digress), ect ect, the Navy can do it in Esquimalt with the fleet school and maybe merge that with their environmental training, the Air Force can offer a power point at a suitably located Marriott or Hilton.

 

[Kat Stevens]

A brief summery “retired Military officers convinced militia only path forward.”



Yes absolutely yes. Shut down and sell the mega. Technical trades do their basic in Borden and then go on to their respective trades, Sigs can do their basic in Kingston at the school there, Infantry in their regimental depots ( actually my preference would be for the Infantry school with regimental companies but I digress), ect ect, the Navy can do it in Esquimalt with the fleet school and maybe merge that with their environmental training, the Air Force can offer a power point at a suitably located Marriott or Hilton.

No mints on the pillow for the roughing it portion.

 

[KevinB]

No mints on the pillow for the roughing it portion.

Hey I stayed in a Marriott in Ft Benning a few weeks ago. It was darn unpleasant (for a Marriott).

 

[GR66]

In an attempt to synthesize the ideas so far:

"Do your common core 2-4 years, figure out who you are and what you like, then go back to school on our dime, and return to us with a trade, full time or part time."

I think there's enough difference between the different trades that a "one size fits all" recruiting, training and retention system doesn't make sense.

Short initial contracts with rapid basic training and retention only for those who show good leadership potential make sense for the combat arms and also meets the goal of filling the Reserves with a sizeable pool of trained personnel for expansion of the Army when required.

Technical trades that have very military-specific skills which take years to develop would benefit from a long-term employment model. Where they are supported by a larger group of less advanced tradespeople with skill-sets that fairly closely match civilian trades then a hybrid model could be used...provide civilian equivalent skills training in return for a medium period of service to fulfill the more numerous tech positions with strong incentives to continue part-time service afterward in the Reserves.

Some highly specialized skills (IT, doctors, pilots, etc.) with particularly high training costs and high wage civilian equivalents might need a different set of incentives altogether.

 

[markppcli]

Short initial contracts with rapid basic training and retention only for those who show good leadership potential make sense for the combat arms and also meets the goal of filling the Reserves with a sizeable pool of trained personnel for expansion of the Army when required.

How does it fill the reserves ? Are we to assume Pte Bloggins, an excellent troop who’s just not showing leadership potential, is going to sign up ti serve to organization that dumped him on his ass part time?

 

[GR66]

How does it fill the reserves ? Are we to assume Pte Bloggins, an excellent troop who’s just not showing leadership potential, is going to sign up ti serve to organization that dumped him on his ass part time?

There are lots of people who don't want to spend their entire working career in the military. Give them a well paying, short-term job when they are young that has excitement and a leg up with benefits (educational, pension, medical, etc.) if they choose to join the Reserves when done. Not all will take the option but at the very least you have a larger pool of the civilian population that now has experience with the military as well as some basic skills if the need ever comes to draw on the population to grow the military.

 

[Navy_Pete]

Yes absolutely yes. Shut down and sell the mega. Technical trades do their basic in Borden and then go on to their respective trades, Sigs can do their basic in Kingston at the school there, Infantry in their regimental depots ( actually my preference would be for the Infantry school with regimental companies but I digress), ect ect, the Navy can do it in Esquimalt with the fleet school and maybe merge that with their environmental training, the Air Force can offer a power point at a suitably located Marriott or Hilton.

So instead of centralizing everything in a place where we can make sure we have suitable equipment, enough training staff, with things done to the same standard, we should distribute it to multiple locations, that requires more people, redundant facilities/equipment, etc?

If you want to do element specific basic trainings, great, but that also requires a lot of LOE to do things like proper lesson plans. I've seen how screwed up thing get for the same course when you don't have standards, and will really depend on the instructor. Teaching a large number of people the same info to the same standard over a long period time is a challenge if you change the instructors frequently, which we do.

The side benefit is you make friends in different elements, and we're a small enough force where that can come in really handy. Also, for things like Afghanistan, not a lot of complaints on the Navy side when our budgets were getting cut so the folks getting shot at had better gear because we all knew people that were in the firing line from when we did basic.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

 

[lenaitch]

As long as those 18 year olds do not interpret "transition" with "transfer".

Personally, I can't see joining an organization with the intention of quitting to join another. I'd rather stay on for the whole ride.



Recruiter: "Where do you see yourself in five years?"

A: "Anywhere but here."

It means even if you are sucessful in "transitioning" to a compareable job ( no quarantee there ), you will become "the new kid on block" at your new organization. Working with people five years younger than you, with five years more seniority.

The one-employer 30+ year career is apparently the view of a bygone (our) generation.

 

[Kirkhill]

The one-employer 30+ year career is apparently the view of a bygone (our) generation.

Yup. Killed by our generation.

Died in 1985 with the Dominion Pensions and Defined Benefits Plans - at least in the private sector.

 

[Furniture]

I think there's enough difference between the different trades that a "one size fits all" recruiting, training and retention system doesn't make sense.

Short initial contracts with rapid basic training and retention only for those who show good leadership potential make sense for the combat arms and also meets the goal of filling the Reserves with a sizeable pool of trained personnel for expansion of the Army when required.

Technical trades that have very military-specific skills which take years to develop would benefit from a long-term employment model. Where they are supported by a larger group of less advanced tradespeople with skill-sets that fairly closely match civilian trades then a hybrid model could be used...provide civilian equivalent skills training in return for a medium period of service to fulfill the more numerous tech positions with strong incentives to continue part-time service afterward in the Reserves.

Some highly specialized skills (IT, doctors, pilots, etc.) with particularly high training costs and high wage civilian equivalents might need a different set of incentives altogether.

The reserves are short even more people than the regulars, what about that tells people on this forum that there is a massive appetite for part time service? We already struggle to attract people to a full-time career that pays pretty well, how are we going to attract people with a couple of years of full-time, followed by a "We don't see a future for you here, but please make yourself available in the free time you have away from your new job."?

I get the appeal of the idea of a citizen soldier that costs little, but provides a massive service, but the reality is that the pool of people willing to work 9-5, then work one evening a week and one weekend a month is pretty small.

 

[markppcli]

So instead of centralizing everything in a place where we can make sure we have suitable equipment, enough training staff, with things done to the same standard, we should distribute it to multiple locations, that requires more people, redundant facilities/equipment, etc?

If you want to do element specific basic trainings, great, but that also requires a lot of LOE to do things like proper lesson plans. I've seen how screwed up thing get for the same course when you don't have standards, and will really depend on the instructor. Teaching a large number of people the same info to the same standard over a long period time is a challenge if you change the instructors frequently, which we do.
.

Well we expect the reserves to teach BMQ out of their armouries, and have ran the course in Borden, Shilo, and Wainwright in the last 5 years so it’s clearly doable. I can’t think of any specific equipment needed to run BMQ that any base in the CF short of Dundurn wouldn’t have on hand. With regards to standards, happily we already have that. In the case of large trades like Sig Op, Infantry, Supply Tech, ect you can create efficiencies by running BMQ and DP1 back to back with the same staff.

There are lots of people who don't want to spend their entire working career in the military. Give them a well paying, short-term job when they are young that has excitement and a leg up with benefits (educational, pension, medical, etc.) if they choose to join the Reserves when done. Not all will take the option but at the very least you have a larger pool of the civilian population that now has experience with the military as well as some basic skills if the need ever comes to draw on the population to grow the military.

So like a four year contract? The exact thing we do now?

 

[QV]

In an attempt to synthesize the ideas so far:

"Do your common core 2-4 years, figure out who you are and what you like, then go back to school on our dime, and return to us with a trade, full time or part time."

Or not at all, which would be fine to.

 

[Navy_Pete]

Well we expect the reserves to teach BMQ out of their armouries, and have ran the course in Borden, Shilo, and Wainwright in the last 5 years so it’s clearly doable. I can’t think of any specific equipment needed to run BMQ that any base in the CF short of Dundurn wouldn’t have on hand. With regards to standards, happily we already have that. In the case of large trades like Sig Op, Infantry, Supply Tech, ect you can create efficiencies by running BMQ and DP1 back to back with the same staff.

Sure but BMQ is basically Army. Less Army people outside Army bases (weirdly).

For reg force, doing it full time in a single go, St. Jean makes a lot of sense. It's pretty cheap to push through several hundred people in a week if you do it in the same spot. Given that HR is a constraint, spreading over multiple spots doesn't make sense.

Realistically, if I'm digging a trench, or leading a section attack on a ship something has gone pretty wrong, but doesn't mean I didn't learn some things in Farnham, and that it's not useful if we're generally a unified force to start that out with training together. There is probably something useful as well in getting outside your comfort zone at the very start as well.

 

[SupersonicMax]

Decentralized BMQ has been a thing for a while and is there to stay. The sky hasn’t fallen and training is more tailored to the requirements of environments. No need for an AVN to learn to dig a trench or take a defensive position. Waste of time, effort and potentially candidates.