Why we pay Reservists what we do (Including Reg v.s. Cl B v.s. Cl C pay, and Double-Dippin')

[aesop081]

Whatever happened to equal pay for equal work.

Class A and Class B service is Not equal work

 

[Stoker]

But there's the kicker of the difference between you (C Class) and a B Class. A B Class pers is only a short term contract, for example to fill in for one of my troops while she completes her maternity leave and he is therefore not deployable, further taskable to CFSAL/TAVs etc (even with LOTS of notice, unlike some of my RegF troops who find themselves with as little as 24 hours notice before being sent away to teach for 12-16 weeks etc away from their families).

You, being C Class, are on a long term contract --- subject to the same rig-a-ma-roll that the RegF guy/gal next to you is ... and you get 100% of the pay to show for it.

Vern, for us (Navy) Class B pers on also on long term contracts (up to 3 years). If I want to say have a shore posting i'm expected to take a 15% pay cut, even though while ashore i'm either teaching or performing a variation of my job on ship. In some cases we are utilized to teach regular force personnel while ashore.

 

[armyvern]

Vern, for us (Navy) Class B pers on also on long term contracts (up to 3 years). If I want to say have a shore posting i'm expected to take a 15% pay cut, even though while ashore i'm either teaching or performing a variation of my job on ship. In some cases we are utilized to teach regular force personnel while ashore.

Can you be tasked out of the area and away from home (and your family) to a school in .... hmmm... Borden, Ontario for 16 weeks to instruct on a PLQ with 24hours NTM right now?

What if they moved the Fleet School to Petawawa --- would you take a posting there (not that you could be posted [because ResF members can't be posted like RegF people who get shipped out to holes all the time whether we like it or not ...] --- but would you??) (I'll go easy on the Fleet School to Pet idea --- it is so assinine they just might like it!!)

Answer very carefully ...  >

 

[Stoker]

So if its such a big deal and your already doing the same job with the same pay/deployments....why dont you join the reg force?

Like I said in my earlier post, I have my reasons. Especially because it involves a substantial rank adjustment.

 

[kratz]

WRT NavRes sailors, there are a large number of them who have been employed on multiple long term class B contracts rotating through various positions for 8, 10, or 15 years. With minimal time in class A positions waiting for the next class B opening.

Those long term class B sailors must also sign a terms of service, with unlimited liability, just like the class C sailor, with the same obligation to serve as directed. WithVern's question on being tasked away, yes often the NavRes Recruiters are tasked to NRTD in Borden for the BRT courses through the year. Duty watches, ships slipping in ports and other duties are assigned and met as directed by class B.

 

[X-mo-1979]

Like I said in my earlier post, I have my reasons. Especially because it involves a substantial rank adjustment.

If your doing the same job as other reg force PO's wouldnt that make you as qualified?So why would you lose rank?Or are the regualr force members more qualified...you have me confused now.

 

[54/102 CEF]

Can you be tasked out of the area and away from home (and your family) to a school in .... hmmm... Borden, Ontario for 16 weeks to instruct on a PLQ with 24hours NTM right now?


Answer very carefully ...  >

Ref short term taskings  and the over night train to Borden. We can all see its possible but I don`t hear it happening over and over and over.

Half this forum is arguing the hard headed reg force join us or nothing approach - part is arguing if I`m in reserves and done my training and have time in I MAY want to control my own destiny.

But if the skills and qualifications are equal is being avoided.

So lets focus on get trained - get time in - it shouldn't matter if you are qualified.

When the gap is closed - even the dumbest Liberal ex Defence Hack should agree that there is a strong basis for equal pay when the gaps are closed.

So eat your weakest man if you want - it only depletes the sum of us all.

 

[Stoker]

Can you be tasked out of the area and away from home (and your family) to a school in .... hmmm... Borden, Ontario for 16 weeks to instruct on a PLQ with 24hours NTM right now?

What if they moved the Fleet School to Petawawa --- would you take a posting there (not that you could be posted [because ResF members can't be posted like RegF people who get shipped out to holes all the time whether we like it or not ...] --- but would you??) (I'll go easy on the Fleet School to Pet idea --- it is so assinine they just might like it!!)

Answer very carefully ...  >

Well I never been tasked to go to Borden, however i'v been given 2 days notice to sail to Europe for a guy who was Dagged red at the last moment. I also have gotten home after a several month trip and given a couple of days notice and been expected to sail on another ship for another couple of months deployment a number of times. Things like that are happening much often.
If they moved the fleet school to Petawawa from Quebec, to be honest that would be a improvement 8). But seriously being in the Navy and in a hard sea trade, that doesn't usually happen. IF it did, I would suck it up and go.

 

[Haggis]

Those long term class B sailors must also sign a terms of service, with unlimited liability, just like the class C sailor, with the same obligation to serve as directed.

So Nav Res Class B members are subject to additional terms of service and liability above and beyond those in CMP Instruction 20-04?

The "liability" in Class B employment is selective.  You have been hired for a SPECIFIC job and signed an SOU agreeing to that with your employing unit. However, once there your employing unit can employ you in virtually any capacity for which your rank, trade and experience qualfies you.  If the employing unit sees fit to send you to, say, Gagetown (sorry Vern) to teach at CTC, you have two choices:

a. Go.  Have fun.  Don't forget to vist the big gun store in McAdam; or
b. give your 30 day notice and quit.

Simple, eh?

And therein, folks, lies he biggest difference between Reg F and Res F Terms of Service:  CHOICE.

 

[armyvern]

Ref short term taskings  and the over night train to Borden. We can all see its possible but I don`t hear it happening over and over and over.

Half this forum is arguing the hard headed reg force join us or nothing approach - part is arguing if I`m in reserves and done my training and have time in I MAY want to control my own destiny.

But if the skills and qualifications are equal is being avoided.

So lets focus on get trained - get time in - it shouldn't matter if you are qualified.

When the gap is closed - even the dumbest Liberal ex Defence Hack should agree that there is a strong basis for equal pay when the gaps are closed.

So eat your weakest man if you want - it only depletes the sum of us all.

I guess you've never heard of CFSAL ...  :

Skills and quals for my trade have only just recently changed --- with SOME now being equal.

I am NOT arguing the RegF vs ResF join us or nothing route.

RegF is good for some pers. ResF is good for some pers.

Some pers never want to be subjected to an NDHQ posting, or a tour to someplace not nice, or to frequent moving of their families and the upheaval upon those spouses and children that causes.

People that don't want that -- most certainly should NOT join the RegF and should remain in the ResF.

SKILLS and QUALS are NOT all that is applicable to this pay equation. We in the RegF who don't agree that ResF members should be paid the same as us, will argue that skills & quals ARE not all that is applicable and that frequent postings, inability to refuse to deploy etc, family upheaval all play a factor in that wage difference.

Those that want equal pay --- will argue that those differences should NOT count ... and will tell us to keep "focused" on the topic when we bring up the obvious differences in the "equitableness of the work", which are the reasons that the pay is NOT equitable.

 

[Harris]

Can you be tasked out of the area and away from home (and your family) to a school in .... hmmm... Borden, Ontario for 16 weeks to instruct on a PLQ with 24hours NTM right now?

I'm can't speak for anyone other than myself, but I fully expect that to happen this summer to me.  I have no doubt I'll be told to go somewhere not in Halifax to run a course and I won't have a choice of where it is.  (I'm on a 3 yr contract as a PSYOPS 2IC Class B)

 

[Stoker]

If your doing the same job as other reg force PO's wouldnt that make you as qualified?So why would you lose rank?Or are the regualr force members more qualified...you have me confused now.

My schooling in my trade is not exactly the same as my regular force counterpart, although I perform the same job on ship. Most other trades are but just say you are a PO, all you can hope for in the regs is LS and still have to do your 3's.

 

[Harris]

Well I never been tasked to go to Borden, however i'v been given 2 days notice to sail to Europe for a guy who was Dagged red at the last moment. I also have gotten home after a several month trip and given a couple of days notice and been expected to sail on another ship for another couple of months deployment a number of times. Things like that are happening much often.
If they moved the fleet school to Petawawa from Quebec, to be honest that would be a improvement 8). But seriously being in the Navy and in a hard sea trade, that doesn't usually happen. IF it did, I would suck it up and go.

In a similar vein, a few years ago while working Class B as the Unit Ops O, I got a call telling me to be on the next plane to Norway.  The Orginal guy got sick and I'm tasked as the replacement.  Where I'm at most of the Class B guys will get tasked this summer.

 

[Poppa]

Personally, I think the 15% is a good price to pay for being my own career manager.

 

[Stoker]

Personally, I think the 15% is a good price to pay for being my own career manager.

I don't think it is when your're trying to raise a family and pay the bills.

 

[armyvern]

If the employing unit sees fit to send you to, say, Gagetown (sorry Vern) to teach at CTC, you have two choices:

Why sorry?? Does he need kit!!?? Are you filling up the appointment books??  




That's OK --- I don't work in clothing anymore!!  ;D

 

[armyvern]

I don't think it is when your're trying to raise a family and pay the bills.

Depends on what your reasons are.

If you are staying ResF so that you and your family are not subject to the rigors of postings, your spouses employment, your childrens education etc, unwanted operational tours to austere locations (vice painting boats in Bermuda etc) ... then that, combined with your own personal career management, certainly would make it worth it to some. But that's another bit about that 15% --- you have a choice and you didn't go RegF, but chose to stay ResF for some "reason" --- so even YOU found it worth it (worth 15%) at some point, because we in the RegF don't get the option of "choosing" to opt out due to any of the above reasons.

 

[geo]

Not a different kettle of fish, and I'm not starting anything.  It is a legitimate comment, and question.

The CIC is part of the ResF.  They would be included in any acts amending the ResF pay structure.

CIC officers are paid based on the Reserve scale of pay.
CIC officers are not employable in any reserve or regular position.
CIC officers are "reservists" for admin purposes more than anything else AND it makes them subject to the code of service discipline.

 

[Stoker]

Depends on what your reasons are.

If you are staying ResF so that you and your family are not subject to the rigors of postings, your spouses employment, your childrens education etc, unwanted operational tours to austere locations (vice painting boats in Bermuda etc) ... then that, combined with your own personal career management, certainly would make it worth it to some. But that's another bit about that 15% --- you have a choice and you didn't go RegF, but chose to stay ResF for some reason --- so even YOU found it worth it at some point.

We don't paint ships down south anymore Vern :'(. Your right it is a choice. To tell you the truth if we still only made 65% perhaps i'd be happier.  Since we have been getting the 85% and now 100% for Class C ,I still think we should in the case of class B get that extra 15%, does that make me greedy?

 

[geo]

I don't think it is when your're trying to raise a family and pay the bills.

If you have so much time invested in the Navy ..... why don't you do a CT, bite the bullet and go Reg!

I have a friend who was a Res RMS Clerk Sgt.
He CTd to RMS Clerk in the regs and is .... a Sgt - doing the same job with the additional 15% pay hike AND the Housing allowance....