Why Cadets are offensive?

[dano]

Rules are in place to be followed.
Regardless of how you feel.

 

[FlightSergeantRose]

". . .spend your time with a 80lb ruck on, hikin with that for 18 hours, then tell me what the difference between cadets and reserves is...and really, how useless the organization is."

That makes no sense what-so-ever. . . 12 year old kids can‘t go marching with an 80lb ruck so the cadet organization is useless? Why would cadets be marching around with 80lb ruck?

It is not the military, it is a youth program that dabs very slightly into the military when it comes to some training and courses. I think some of you people are forgetting that. The amount of funds that go to this program would do little to help the military

 

[CL84]

ergo ergo ergo

 

[CL84]

ya you are right goodbird, I made a mistake, I really don‘t like cadets just because of experiences with them I guess, and ya it doesn‘t make sense for them to ruck it with 80lbs. Just a chance for them to taste military life and structure, in the process, building a better youth. Thats what the cadets ‘should‘ do to kids.
Ah well, everywhere you go there will be the bad ones, sorry I wasted my breath, ergo wasting peoples time, ergo wasting bandwith, ergo my ergo‘d ergo.

 

[GrahamD]

So my question is, if you have to salute a cadet officer because he is affiliated with the military, do you have to salute the ranger officers?

Plus I‘d like to add, I don‘t see the big deal in saluting a cadet officer "if" he holds an actual commision. Officers in the CAF are saluted, end of story.
However, being commanded by a cadet to adress them according to their rank is ludicrous.
Whats worse though is feeling like you want to punch them in the face. They‘re just kids after all, and a well placed remark about how its "cute" that they think you owe them respect, and that they should run off with their little friends to "play guns" will do far more damage to their inflated sense of entitlement than you probably think. Especially when you laugh off their attempts at confrontation or rebuttal and walk away, leaving them feeling furious and powerless to do anything about it.
Belittlement is the best revenge for a teenager, it has the most profound impact, and costs you the least amount of backlash.

It would be a cold day in **** before I would humble myself to a cadet during the course of serving my country. If anything I would take his name and information and just wait for the day he enlisted into the regs. I‘d be sure to put in a good word for him to his instuctors at St.Jean.

 

[Slumsofsackville]

I was evil in Cadets, Play pranks and Was pure EVIL, Chaped 3 times only 2 years in. Once I joinned Reserves I dropped the Cadets thing. Found out it‘s only fuel for the fire and your treated 3X worst then others. All it was good for was killin time. I had to Drop what ever I lernt... so, why did I join. Only thing I used from cadets were my boots, Since I had a Good polish.

 

[cdhoult]

Originally posted by CL84:
[qb] lol...ergo...ergo...ergo. That‘s all I gotta say. Oh ya, and comparing apples to oranges? Or cadets to soldiers? I think that‘s what I was doing there actually. The only thing good about cadets, is it keeps kids busy off the streets, out of drugs...no wait a second, I ran into a few kids smoking a joint who were wearing cadet uniforms! So ‘ergo‘ cadets are still, useless. Like I said all powerful super cadet man, spend your time with a 80lb ruck on, hikin with that for 18 hours, then tell me what the difference between cadets and reserves is...and really, how useless the organization is. Sorry..I just really can‘t like the cadets. No offence to the good ones who don‘t power trip. :dontpanic: [/qb]

Yes, you are comparing soldiers to cadets. Cadets aren‘t MEANT to be soldiers. Youth Organization. They aren‘t there to protect our country, they aren‘t there to go to war, or perform duties for the CF. At all. So by saying that cadets are far different from the reserves, well, you‘re correct. They aren‘t MEANT to be.

Any Cadet who is caught smoking drugs are removed from the program (or should be). I‘m not going to defend them, they shouldn‘t be doing it. It‘s not like we all fall in and light up together.

I have met some officers who are trying to relive the program....and it really is a sad thing. There are some out there (usually older ones, hence reliving their childhood), but a lot of CIC Officers are young ex-cadets, or parents who got involved to save little Jimmy‘s corps (Ma & Pa Corps). Sadly, the average life span of a CIC Officer is 4 years. Many leave the program due to other commitments, and then the old let‘s-relive-out-childhood officers are sometimes the only ones left.

The Program, like anything, isn‘t perfect.

Oh, and as for the ‘super cadet man comment‘, how old are we? Aren‘t you 20? Shouldn‘t you be researching your answers? We‘ve all had negative experiences with cadets and members of the reg force/reserved. But actually research the program and realize that not everyone sucks.

Mutual respect for the cadets is a great place to start. We have Reg Force members volunteer at our unit, as well as members of the Reserve. One I have the highest respect for. She‘s around 58 or so (She‘s past the age for the PRes, and is actually parading with the cadet unit with special permission, retaining her rank), was a Reserve member for 30 years, is a Member of Military Merit, and is just great to work with. She doesn‘t call me ‘Hoult‘, and quite frankly, if most people did, I wouldn‘t respect. Regardless of what in your eyes a may or may not be, in that organization, and while I wear that uniform, I‘m a Cadet MWO, whether you agree with it or not. And as I say, although you are under no obligation to call me a MWO, I‘m under no obligation to refer to you as Recruit, or whatever your rank is at the moment.

You and I both know that 12 year olds are influential. If the 12 year old sees that you aren‘t calling him Sgt, then why should the 12 year old?

I‘m not saying you must listen to the Sgt, you shouldn‘t be (clearly), theyy have no authprity over you, and likewise, unless volunteering at the cadet unit, you have none over them.

It all starts with mutual respect, and as a member of the reserve, try leading by example to the cadets. Laughing at a cadets face for asking to be called by their rank, well, what a great example you are setting for them.

Originally posted by CL84:
[qb]Just a chance for them to taste military life and structure, in the process, building a better youth.[/qb]

What part of military life should they experience? The food? The inspections on their rooms? Drill? Respect? I‘m not entirely sure what more you would do for the program....They learn the rank structure, they go to camp, do their courses, sleep in bunks that are inspected daily with a ruler, checked for dustand all that other good stuff, learn to shine their boots (although some really, really don‘t know how....and that‘s sad), Get up at 0600 for PT, eat the military food, fall in for parades (and are constantly evaluated on drill/uniform), and go about their way and do their courses.

Many cadets who retire after a full ‘career‘ in the program are leaps/bounds ahead of the average 19 year old, with more confidence, organization, time management skills, etc.

Yes the program is designed to ‘spark an interest‘, but if Bloggins doesn‘t go onto the forces, he‘s still benefited from the program.

They don‘t go on a forced march, or play night/day. What would it do for them? Cadets are also there to have a good time.

Originally posted by GrahamD:
[qb]
So my question is, if you have to salute a cadet officer because he is affiliated with the military, do you have to salute the ranger officers?[/qb]

Cadet Officers aren‘t affiliated with the Military, they are PART of the military. Members of the CIC Branch, and yes, hold real commissions.

Originally posted by d-N-a:
[qb]
From what I‘ve been told, Reservist an Reg Force dont have to salute CICS, except if they hold the rank or Major or LCol?

An yes, technically CICs are a subunit in the reserve, but they dont have any of the same standards or training[/qb]

They do have to salute members of the CIC, as they hold the exact same commission as those in the reg force or the reserves. NCM‘s/Junior officers can and have ended up infront of the Admiral or Base Chief being Court Martials for not saluting a CIC Officer.

The most amusing part about the whole Trg/Standards for CIC Officers is that Reg Force Officers are in charge of that part.

Director of Cadets, Col Perron, is Reg Force. As are the RCO‘s (save Pac Region, currently they are short, so an ex-Reg Force Cdr is currently holding the position....he‘s older than 55, so he‘s parading as a CIC Officer). Even the ACO‘s are Captains, and the ACA‘s are Reg Force NCM‘s (usually Sgt/WO‘s).....they have a LOT to do with training and standards of units. So if a unit has icnredibly low standards, and their officers are crap, it‘s up to the ACO and ACA‘s to DO something about it. If they don‘t do their jobs, well....you‘ve seen what happens. DCdt‘s, RCO, ACO, ACA....ALL Reg Force postings. So if they do their jobs properly, things should be good. Sadly, many do not. That isn‘t a problem with lack of CIC Training, apparently it‘s a lack of training or initiative on the part of the Reg Force Officers involved....I‘m happy to say most that I‘ve met are of incredibly high calibur, and keep corps at a high standard.

Originally posted by Spr. Williamson:
[qb]
Apparently Our Marching wasnt As Good as It should Have Been and He Made a Rather Nice Comment About it
[/qb]

The Cadet was out of line, hopefully they won‘t do something like that again.

Not all cadets are perfect, nor are all units perfect.

But those who just moan an complain aren‘t really doing anything about, especially those who were never involved with the program, and are incredibly uninformed.

If you think you can do a better job, than put your money where your mouth is. Go volunteer at the unit, I‘ve seldom heard of a cadet unit turning down a Reg Force/Reserves Volunteer.

While you are there though, be prepared to call the cadets by their rank, salute the officers (which of course, you would do anyway), and listen to the officers above you. Most Reg FOrce members are given a lot of latitude. The WO I mentioned above was a Clerk I believe, or something to that effect, and she is the AdminO, and does a very good job, so no one is micromanaging her. But if you cause problems, or moan the whole time, well, be prepared for not a fun stint.

Go make a difference in a corps, especially those who are complaining with no experience in the program.

CH

 

[Da_man]

one thing you should not forget is that ANYONE can join the cadets.
Remove the drill, and what do you have left that is "military" ?

anyway... i used to be a cadet and what i really hate was the fact that they gave promotions not to those who can take responsabilities, but to those who have the best looking boots.

 

[Da_man]

Originally posted by 3005_MWO:
[qb]

Funny thing about Cadet Officers....they actually ARE part of the Canadian Forces, and hold a REAL commission....ergo, yes, you DO have to salute them. They are a sub unit of the Reserves. Funny thing ain‘t it.

CH [/qb]

cadets ARE NOT part of the CF. they are paramilitary.
They are not even sworn in, who could they be part of the CF?

 

[Infanteer]

This whole thread has gone from zero to stupid pretty quick....

 

[Harris]

Infanteer I agree %100.

Therefore I am going to lock this thread so we can move on.

First a message from our sponsers though:

Everyone, lets be clear on this point as it seems there is a lot of confusion out there.

ALL Officers that you see in Canada (ie. Wearing Gold or Green braid on their Slip-ons or cuffs) are Comissioned Officers and therefore are due the proper respect for their Comission (Not necessarly the Officer themselves, as we know that is earned)

The lone exception to this are OCdts. Depending on Unit tradition thay may or may not be saluted by Jr Ranks as they do not yet hold the Queen‘s comission.

That means that if you are of a lower rank and in the Reserves or Regular Force you "must" salute them and otherwise treat them with the actions and respects due any Officer.

There are no longer any Cadet Officers (I used to be a Cadet Captain before Cadet Officer ranks were removed). However CIC, Reserve, and Regular Force Officers are all the same in the eyes of QR&O‘s and you will get into trouble if you decide not to recognize that fact.

Cadet NCO‘s on the other hand have no actual command authority over anyone and conversely have no responsibility to respond to non CIC officers (some would say they don‘t have to respond to anyone). Hoever common courtesy dictates that if you have dealings with Cadets, you should call them by their rank, and that they call you by your rank. It doesn‘t mean that they command you somehow if you are of a lower rank, but it is similar to how Foreign Officers are treated, I salute foreign Majors and above not necessarly beause I have to, but because I should. And in turn I don‘t expect foreign Lt‘s and below to salute me, but to date %100 have when I‘ve delt with them. It is professional courtiesy.

I wish I could see more of that here on the Forums.

I shall now get of the soap box.

If you want to continue this topic please feel free to start a new thread.

 

[sgt_mandal]

I just wanted to add something to everyone who said they saw cadets smoking or drinking.

I‘m almost positive that you knew that smoking underage is illegal. Also as you are fine examples, yourselves, of soldiers in the Candian Forces, why didn‘t any of you stop them or try to do anything about it? Espiecilly if you DID catch them in uniform?

As a good citizen, I would at least tried to do something about that.

 

[corporal-cam]

1) Never seen a cadet drinking (in uniform)
2) Smoking underage is legal here in Manitoba
3) I do neither, don‘t lump me in with the bad apples
4) The Forces aren‘t angels either (eg. Somalia)
5) Have a nice day.

 

[L/MCpl_Argyll_ Kurrgan]

You had to bring up Somalia eh. Nice.

 

[dano]

I was thinking the same thing.

 

[sgt_mandal]

corporal-cam,

If you read my post correctly, i was not reffering to you at all. I was directing my question to the people who have.

 

[CL84]

Funny, walk up to a cadet smoking or drinking and let them know what you think of that, and that they shouldn‘t be doing it, they‘ll spit at you, tell you to f-off or start a fight with you ‘because they are wearing the uniform.‘ I‘m pretty sure that‘s what would happen.

 

[cdhoult]

CATO 13-23

21. Regardless of age or provincial legislation,
cadets including staff cadets are prohibited from
purchasing alcohol, being under the influence of
alcohol, consuming alcohol or having alcohol in
their possession while engaged in cadet
activities.

So the question of, "Are they engaged in a cadet activitity before/after cadets" comes into play...in my opinion, if they are in uniform, well, make sure you‘re going an appropriate representation.

As for smoking, I know there is a PRCI on it, that bans smoking by cadets in Pacific Region, and I‘m fairly certain the CATO is updated as well, but there isn‘t a recent copy online. I‘ll let you nkow if I can get ahold of an updated copy.

CH

 

[Thompson_JM]

Im thinking why are we still on this?

Why keep pouring Gas onto the fire?

we all have different veiwpoints and im pretty sure they arnt going to change overnight, therefore, this subject is going to be alot of controversial argueing back and forth..

Why not just drop it guys?

 

[CL84]

Ya, I agree. No matter what you do with all the rules and conduct to follow for cadets, reservists or regular force guys or in civillian life, anywhere, there is always going to be the potheads and the drinkers and smokers or whatever the case, can‘t get rid of it.