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Who do you like for Liberal leader?

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While I don't support the Liberals, I think we get better government when our parties have better leaders.  I would love to see a strong opposition leader who can keep his eye on the ball and steer opposition members away from the useless attempts to embarrass the government that we see in question period.  I would love to see an opposition that presses the government and keeps them honest without resorting to the dick-stretching contests that they usually have.  It seems to me that the tone of this parliament has been better than the last, and surprisingly it seems to me that the Liberals are doing a better job than the Conservatives did of keeping their eye on the ball during question period.

With ten delcared candidates, none of the choices are inspiring.  And 8 of the 10 being from Toronto says a lot about the Liberal base of support.  I think 3 or 4 will probably fold before the convention, and the vote will go 3 or 4 ballots with the remaining candidates.  I just don't see any of them as being able to galvanize the support of delegates.

I heard one of the candidates' declaration speech on the radio this week.  I can't remember who it was, but he gave this great fire-and-brimstone speech talking about his vision, and his intention to lead the Liberals into the next election.  It ended with applause - from maybe half a dozen people.  That seems to be how much excitement any of these candidates can generate.
 
I wonder how much of Ignatieff''s campaign is being stage managed by people who are nostalgic for the idea of a Trudeauesque "Philosopher King". The fact that he is really only a Canadian by courtesy (having spent the last 30 years in England and the United States) really doesn't inspire me.

Ken Dryden is only notable in my mind as the "National Childcare" guy, and given the massive success he has had since 1993 of actually implementing this (OK, I realize he hasn't been on the case since '93, but you get the idea), he doesn't inspire much confidence.

Bob Rae is running from his record, and most of the remainder are non entities who are positioning themselves for shadow cabinet seats or gravy in some Liberal friendly board of director's appointment.

Like I said before, this is important in the sense we should be aware of what the Liberal's are attempting to remake themselves into (since the party nowadays is largely a reflection of the leader, like it or not), and from what I have seen, the bulk of the pack has their eyes firmly set on defeating........Jack Layton (!). A Left wing war to the knife? Bring it!!!

edit for spelling
 
Michael Ignatieff might be interesting. I don't know enough about him to know for sure. I'm just familiar with some of his books and his reputation abroad. A lot of high profile political candidates that seem interesting on paper end up being complete duds politically though, so I'll have to see how he does. Considering that he has never held elected office until now, it seems strange that suddenly he expects to run for PM. I'll be watching him since everyone else is either dull (Ken Dryden) or ridiculous (Hedy Fry).

Too bad Belinda didn't run. She would have been more enjoyable to watch...
 
Well Belinda couldn't decide which party she wanted to be in...so why would she want to lead one...

No one in the present lot of Liberal hopefuls really stands out as adequate opposition for Stephen Harper...

HL

 
SeaKingTacco said:
Just in the interest of balance and fairness, do you have a reference to back that up?

Y'know, I remember it being talked about and bandied about the blogs and what-not prior to the election that Dryden had likened not sending children to institutional day cares as "child abuse", but you think I can find anything online now?

???
 
So.....Now Hedi Frey has entered the Race.  ::)

Conservatives should have a larger lead come the next election.
 
George Wallace said:
So.....Now Hedi Frey has entered the Race.   ::)

Conservatives should have a larger lead come the next election.

I wonder if burning crosses will be on her platform  ::)
 
I heard one of the liberal leadership candidates make some comment about how parents that raise their children at home instead of a daycare are going to help create more criminals. So far the smartest seems to be Ignatieff, he probably would make a good leader.
 
Futuretrooper said:
I heard one of the liberal leadership candidates make some comment about how parents that raise their children at home instead of a daycare are going to help create more criminals. So far the smartest seems to be Ignatieff, he probably would make a good leader.

Why would he make a good leader for the Liberal Party, or potential PM? Details and references, please.
 
Here's a zinger from the "Philosopher Prince"

http://www.civitatensis.ca/archives/2006/05/06/1315

Ignatieff's Taxi Drivers

Speaking about all the things that a new Liberal Party will do, Michael Ignatieff wants to get all those with more education than he has out of their taxi cabs:

    As well, the Liberals need to become a party of opportunity again, he said, adding that he is tired of getting into taxis and discovering the driver has more education than he does. “I want them out of the cab and into the lab,” he declared to sustained applause.

There are a couple of small problems here. On the one hand, it belittles taxi drivers everywhere. By saying that an educated man is beneath driving a cab, he is indirectly putting down taxi drivers who do not have university degrees. Like many liberal academics, Ignatieff assumes that people with degrees are automatically better and should not be driving cabs.

Ignatieff is being disingenuous. He knows that many of the well-educated people driving cabs are driving cabs because their eduction is not or has not been recognised in this country. How does Ignatieff propose to do this beyond the catchy slogan? Whose government for the last 13 years brought immigrants to Canada under false pretences, knowing full well that they could not be employed in their professional areas (see Daniel Stoffman)?

Having seen that American and Canadian universities now graduate students in queer and feminist studies –to name but two– and that in the acquisition of their degrees many learn not much more than to regurgitate the ideology (ies) of their masters and mistresses, it should not be that much of a surprise that driving a cab for local graduates is gainful employment. Ignatieff also assumes, like all good Liberals, that a University degree means than a person should be working at a desk in a government department or in a lab.

Finally, to be fair, Ignatieff may have a point on the lab issue. Given that Ignatieff has a doctorate in History from Harvard, in order to have more education that he does, one would have to have two PhDs. But who gets two PhDs? Some people do, as incredible as that sounds. But considering the cost, sacrifice and the hardship, anyone with two PhDs would be bordering on the insane (if already not insane), and sending them to a lab as subjects of study might be the most appropriate thing to do.

Maybe if he had been in Canada a bit more over the last 30 years, he would not have slipped on that metaphorical bananna peel!
But it was a good observation on the blogger's part. In a single sentance, Michael Ignatieff demonstrates what Liberals think of people who do hands on work, while at the same time avoiding the question of "how did things get like this anyway?" and disingeniously assigning blame ("Make Canada a land of opportunity again".  Prime Minister Harper has been on the job for how long? If we have lost lots of opportunities since 1993, as Michael Ignatieff suggests, name the Prime Ministers in power during that time period.) I fully expected boneheaded pronouncements from Hedi Fry, but this is supposed to be the "smart guy". Heh
 
The problem here is not with who's driving the taxi but who are you recruiting to become Canadian?  If you want to have highly educated immigrants (which we do not) then recognize their credentials (which we dont) before they come to Canada (which we also dont do), and have jobs for them to apply for (which organizations in Canada are obstructive about).    If all you want is taxi drivers and hands on manufacturing lines, which Canada needs by the way, dont select people with universiy degrees. 
 
This is from this morning’s Globe and Mail and is reproduced here under the Fair Dealings provisions of the Copyright Act.

I am not spamming but I am posting this in two threads: here and in Military Current Affairs & News in Canadians don't want troops in Afghanistan.


http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20060509.wxmacgregor09/BNStory/National/home
Souring on Afghanistan will leave Liberal hopefuls anxiously testing the wind

ROY MacGREGOR

From Tuesday's Globe and Mail

It is the simplest rule in both politics and column writing.

Wet a finger and hold it up.

Politicians go with the wind; columnists go against it.

In politics, the notion that a leader must chase the people has been attributed to so many -- French revolutionaries, various British prime ministers including Canadian-born Andrew Bonar Law -- that no one can really claim ownership.

Which, of course, leaves it wide open for any one of the 11 (and counting) candidates for the leadership of the Liberal Party of Canada.

The Liberal 11 gathered this past weekend in the ballroom of the Sheraton Centre in Toronto and underlined, once again, why Canadians are increasingly seeing this as a regional party of very little imagination.

When those who had come to listen shouted out "Shame!" it was not, as might be expected, to express their disenchantment with the current government's increasingly American way of looking at things or even the government's dismal showing on protecting the environment.

No, they called out "Shame!" to show how they felt when Prime Minister Stephen Harper, a Conservative, came to Toronto to say hello to Ontario Premier Dalton McGuinty, a Liberal, and then hurried off to a dinner to introduce provincial Conservative Leader John Tory as "the next premier of Ontario."

Strange, isn't it, that such people would show up at a political gathering knowing absolutely nothing about politics . . .

But so be it. The Liberals are caught up these days in finding their feet, not their hands. And any leadership candidate wetting a finger would be just as likely to stick it in his or her own ear as any prevailing wind.

But what is most curious about this weekend gathering is that the likely issue of the coming seven months before the leadership convention was barely even broached.

One candidate, Michael Ignatieff -- the only identifiable hawk in this flock of rare birds -- did mention Afghanistan, but essentially to embrace the position Stephen Harper has already staked out with his Canadians don't "cut-and-run" talk.

Canada, Ignatieff said, is a country that "does the tough lifting when it has to be done." This is something Canadians take great pride in -- being there when it matters -- but the growing issue concerns the phrase "when it has to be done."

We're increasingly not so sure. Canada, it appears, is already well into that grey area so much of the United States is entering with Iraq -- support the troops, question the war -- and the reality of 16 Canadian deaths in that difficult country is only beginning to have its effect on the population at large.

Last week in tiny Erin, Ont., when the urn holding the ashes of Lieutenant William Turner was buried in the same grave that holds his father, a few locals opened up to the Guelph Mercury with some rather telling comments.

Jack Grey, who lives next door to the Legion Hall where the young soldier was remembered, said the decision to be in Afghanistan was the real "shame" here.

And Doug Richardson, a man who fits the very demographic that should be firmest in support -- 66 years old, heartland Ontario -- declared categorically: "Those boys should not be there. They didn't know what they're getting into, and now they're getting knocked off like flies.

"This is getting serious."

Very serious indeed. Others, of course, hold quite the opposite view, and deserve respect for those beliefs, but the fact that opinion is now so clearly split should be of particular note for those who would, as Bonar Law once said, hurry after the people in order to be their leader.

Last week's Strategic Counsel poll found 54 per cent of Canadians oppose or strongly oppose Canada's "peacemaking" role in Afghanistan, well up from two months previous. And support is softest in -- again no surprise -- Quebec, traditional base of Liberal support in this confusing country.

Canadians gave 116,000 lives to just cause in the last century. "You will not die but step into immortality," Sir Arthur Currie told his men before the Battle of the Somme. "Your mothers will not lament your fate but will be proud to have borne such sons. Your names will be revered forever and forever by your grateful country, and God will take you onto Himself."

There is still pride, great pride, but mothers and others do lament, greatly, and all the more so when it feels as immediate as these recent deaths in a war that is simply not seen as clear and certain as that first great one.

If, as military sources have quietly been telling those who cover such situations, this taming of Afghanistan -- something that has already eluded Alexander the Great, Genghis Khan, the British Empire and the Soviet Union -- will soon get even messier, those polling numbers could shift even more dramatically than they already have.

If the people begin to move, what will the Liberal 11 do?

Who among them will be first to wet a finger?
rmacgregor@globeandmail.com

 
I would really like to have an effective opposition. All of the people I would have considered didn't join the race, so I don't know. It hasn't been this wide open in a long time. Usually there is a chosen successor that usually obliterates the competition ie. Trudeau, Martin etc. They also usually have had cabinet experience under the previous Liberal government.

I'll say Ken Dryden, because he is new, has no baggage like the others (ie. Rae as Premier of Ontario).

Because of the "united right", the Liberal party in some cases may vote split in some ridings with the NDP.

To tell you the truth I  would say this crop of candidates doesn't really intrigue me.

 
Smiling Jack sems to be the target of the Liberal hopefuls; here is a potential (nasty) outcome of the current race:

http://www.ltvnews.com/viewcolumn.php?id=6559

If Liberals Fail, Layton Will Emerge More Powerful in Next Election

Frank Tridico -- SOONEWS.CA -- Sunday, May 14, 2006, 9:29AM

Some time ago, I had a conversation with former Councilor Brady Irwin. We were discussing the political potential of the four major federal party leaders. At the time, former Prime Minister Paul Martin was on the defensive, attempting to stop the political hemorrhaging of AdScam. Martin, whose minority government was propped up by Jack Layton’s New Democrats slowly allowed for compromise (4.6 billion to be exact) in exchange self-preservation. This is hardly what history will deem to be calibre of leadership.

Martin effectively allowed Layton to define Liberal identity, both in the short and long term. For 13 years, Liberal culture of entitlement was forged on its ability to allow no one to define its identity. Jack Layton did it in less than a few weeks. For a diminutive tenure, we saw the bizarre relationship between the governing Liberals who held the political steering wheel, and the fourth place New Democrats, who pointed in which direction to maneuver.

Political Desperation and the Unholy Alliance

This coalition of convenience for the NDP, and coalition of necessity for the Grits, marked the beginning of Liberal demise in Canada. Layton befriended Martin, tied a political noose around his neck, and watched as the former Prime Minister wrapped it tighter with each passing day.

There are many who believe that the Liberals are just regrouping, and that a new leader will re-invigorate a simmering flame. That flame blew out some time ago, along with Liberal identity. Now, the current crop of misfits, former Conservative floor crossers, a former socialist Ontario Premier turned instant Liberal, a former hockey player, and other no-names and Johnny-come-latelies are engaging in spirited discourse to assume the steering of a vehicle going nowhere fast. Is this what the once proud Liberal Party has been reduced to?

The Quest for Identity

Liberal arrogance and corruption has besmirched the tradition of a principled party. I make no apologies for chiding the direction this Party has taken, and the lack of direction it is heading in. This is a party with no identity, no organization, no clear message and no strategy. Current Prime Minister Harper is leading an even smaller minority government than his predecessor. In the interim, all four major parties are gearing up for the next election. Harper’s Conservatives are changing on a daily basis, searching for identity and consistency. The Liberals are in self-preservationist mode. Only the Bloc Quebecois and the New Democrats have not changed since the last election. This places both parties in a much more advantageous position than the two dominant political parties.

To be successful politically, one must forge a clear identity, and that identity must remain consistent. It is much easier to do this from the opposition ranks than from governance. The Conservatives will continue to have to bend politically to govern effectively. Their minority government position will afford them two options: (1) adhere to their prescribed principles and risk having the government fall and then argue that they remained consistent, or (2) compromise politically, and allow other parties to help define the identity of the Conservative Party. Expect the latter rather than the former.

Layton will only emerge stronger if Liberal identity is compromised. Layton will help to assure that Conservative (or Liberal) future governance is minority status, if he continues to push for compromise. Any political compromise can be perceived as inconsistency. Any gains the Tory government makes through forced negotiation will chip away at their political identity.

Layton can preserve and enhance his own power by denying it to the two dominant parties. This isn’t a war of ideology. This is a war of political strategy. Brady Irwin predicted that of the four leaders, Layton is most likely to last longer over time, even if he never assumes power or opposition status. I concur with that.
 
From what I have read, back in 1984 (just before I was born) They were saying that the Liberal party was on the brink of demise and that the NDP would become the second party. (and look what happened)
 
van Gemeren said:
From what I have read, back in 1984 (just before I was born) They were saying that the Liberal party was on the brink of demise and that the NDP would become the second party. (and look what happened)
I don't remember anyone saying the Liberal party was doomed, but I do remember the leadership convention that year when the party decided that Jean Chretien was yesterday's man.  If they follow the same pattern, John Manley or Brian Tobin will win the leadership convention in 2009...
 
AS if we didn't know.....

http://www.bluebloggingsoapbox.com/index.php?option=com_jd-wp&Itemid=31&p=1219

Liberals Planned for Years of Political Pork
June 26th, 2006

For some reason, I don’t think anyone’s running out to call Ripleys Believe it or Not on the subject of this article. With the Adscam taps turned off, $9 billion in previously untouchable Liberal-created foundations about to come under the Auditor-General’s scrutiny, a Leadership race featuring the ‘’ who’s who ‘’ of other parties and the ‘’ who’s that ‘’ of the Liberal party it hardly seems surprising that sales are running a little weak.

Why is it that I get the feeling that the ‘grassroots’ Liberals referred to below weren’t very grassroots?

Liberals finding it hard to sell party memberships: Hall Findlay
LPCO confirms about 100,000 membership forms in circulation, but it remains to be seen how many will be submitted back by July 4 deadline.

The source, who supported Paul Martin (LaSalle-Eamard, Que.) in the last Liberal leadership, said that another reason is that grassroots Liberals are disappointed that the former Prime Minister failed to deliver for them as party leader and as Prime Minister.

‘’ Organizers signed up thousands and thousands of new people for Martin. In return, these organizers were expected to deliver for their people. If their people are not taken care of, why are these organizers going to come back and sign up for the leadership candidates again. A lot of people called in all their favours to organize for Martin and Martin was supposed to be there for years and everyone was supposed to get something. Now people are wondering do they really want to go run around sign up people. ‘’

 
It is my fervent wish that Bob Rae win the Liberal leadership race. His track record as a NDP premier in Ontario leaves him virtually unelectable there. It would give Harper another 15 seats in Ontario, at a minimum. Combine that with the inroads Harper is making in Quebec, and we have a healthy Conservative majority next go round. Or Hedy Fry, either way. A flake in search of nonexistant burning crosses or NDP Liberal flip flopper.
 
I like anyone who stands out from the status quo as a rule and for me this appears to be: Martha Hall Findlay. If for no other reason, pointing out the uselessness of the current debating system the Liberals are utilizing due primarily to the lacklustre nature of the forum. It's basically dull and allows for no passion or momentary zeal. She seems to be the only candidate with an awareness of this and a willingness to discuss it; so in all honesty, allow Ignatief to flow into the job and it's going to be nothing but smiles for Harper and Layton.
 
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