Whither the Royal Canadian Legion? Or RCL Withers?

[daftandbarmy]

I am going to paint with a rather broad brush here, but given that there is general consensus here that the RCL hasn't fulfilled its mission with regard to 'modern' veterans, is there an opportunity for a new organization to rise up and fill the vacuum?

Or is the whole idea of a club of ex-servicepersons anachronistic?

I'd say that the Legion has an amazingly strong brand presence, especially around Remembrance Day, but it's usually put back in the box by mid-November. There's an opportunity to give that brand more legs, especially through innovative initiatives like this:

Royal Canadian Legion partners with Fortnite to teach military history for Remembrance Day

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-royal-canadian-legion-partners-with-fortnite-video-game-to-teach/

If they get their online/ social media marketing strategy tuned up as, perhaps, 'The Custodians of Remembrance, Service and Selflessness' or something like that, they won't need 'walk ins' as much anymore.

 

[Navy_Pete]

I am going to paint with a rather broad brush here, but given that there is general consensus here that the RCL hasn't fulfilled its mission with regard to 'modern' veterans, is there an opportunity for a new organization to rise up and fill the vacuum?

Or is the whole idea of a club of ex-servicepersons anachronistic?

The RCL is actually a majority civilian organization with a veneer of being a veterans organization. There are lots of other, smaller veterans groups made up of actual veterans.

Sure, there are issues with specific people at different branches being jerks to modern vets, but I think it's time the RCL stops being a recognized organization for the GoC to talk to when they are looking at pension/benefits changes, as they straight up sold us out last time around.  They do lots of good work with Rembrance Day, and thought that Fortnite bit was inspired, but they are simply out of touch.

 

[Eaglelord17]

I'd say that the Legion has an amazingly strong brand presence, especially around Remembrance Day, but it's usually put back in the box by mid-November. There's an opportunity to give that brand more legs, especially through innovative initiatives like this:

Royal Canadian Legion partners with Fortnite to teach military history for Remembrance Day

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-royal-canadian-legion-partners-with-fortnite-video-game-to-teach/

If they get their online/ social media marketing strategy tuned up as, perhaps, 'The Custodians of Remembrance, Service and Selflessness' or something like that, they won't need 'walk ins' as much anymore.

I will say I get more and more disgusted with my local remembrance day ceremonies with each year. The Legion uses it to advertise for themselves, not for what it is supposed to be. Giving away awards, thanking the members who did the best poppy drive, etc. It honestly sickens me that these people use it for their own self aggrandizement and if that organization ceased to exist I honestly wouldn't shed a tear.

 

[Weinie]

My soon to be 14 yr old saw the Legion Fortnite link, looked at for 30 seconds, and then went back to the real game. We have attended Remembrance Day ceremonies for 10 years together, to him, the "Legion" is the place with free food after the ceremony. Don't think I could encourage him to attend for any of the other 364 days of the year, nor have the attraction efforts paid off.

 

[Kat Stevens]

The Legion does a terrible job of marketing itself. The one thing every retired person says they miss the most, if they miss anything at all, is the camaraderie. Civies just don't get us, I keep hearing.  It seems to me if you Real Vets, and us sad old cold war pasture geldings really gave a rat's rectum about "the guys", they'd join the Legion en mass and fix it.

 

[daftandbarmy]

The Legion does a terrible job of marketing itself. The one thing every retired person says they miss the most, if they miss anything at all, is the camaraderie. Civies just don't get us, I keep hearing.  It seems to me if you Real Vets, and us sad old cold war pasture geldings really gave a rat's rectum about "the guys", they'd join the Legion en mass and fix it.

I've had this same discussion with several of our AFG vets, most of whom were at least 15 - 20 years younger than me. Some of them actually went to their local Legion wanting to join, contribute and hang out, but were literally shunned in a variety of ways by the incumbents.

Alot of the 'shunners' were ex-CAF 'Cold Warriors', and the civvies were apparently more welcoming.

In any case, they didn't go back for obvious reasons.

 

[Kat Stevens]

I've had this same discussion with several of our AFG vets, most of whom were at least 15 - 20 years younger than me. Some of them actually went to their local Legion wanting to join, contribute and hang out, but were literally shunned in a variety of ways by the incumbents.

Alot of the 'shunners' were ex-CAF 'Cold Warriors', and the civvies were apparently more welcoming.

In any case, they didn't go back for obvious reasons.

I'm still a card carrying dues paying member. My branch has maybe 12 vets of any type. I'd be over the moon if there were more, from any generation. It might just get my old arse in there a bit more frequently. As it is, I maybe drop in for a fast beer once a month or so, as it's the same old crap every time, associates sitting around playing or pool and not really speaking my language. I'd like nothing better than a bloodless coup to make the legion what it was supposed to be.

 

[Lumber]

The younger generations (I'm including millennials here) get most of their social interactions online, through social media and other communications platforms. Heck, most of the people I know (early to  mid-30s and younger) get physically uncomfortable when someone actually calls them instead of just texting/messaging them.

Sure, we still enjoy and crave actual physical "get-togethers", but these are far more limited to groups of people that we know well and are comfortable with being around (i.e. close friends and family).

So, the idea of regularly hanging out in a group setting with a revolving door of people that we only know passingly is just not a very appealing idea to modern generations. We simply don't like making small talk with people we don't know.

I was a member of a legion during one of my 3 year postings, but I only ever went to the Monday night dart league, and even then, I only went because 2 of my closest high-school friends were also members of the league. Even with my friends there, I wouldn't have gone if there wasn't something for me to "do" while there (because I'd rather be at home doing a half-dozen other things than engaging in small talk with people I don't know... actually I don't much like small talk with people I do know, so maybe that's just me).

All that is to say is that, unless the RCL completely changes it's model, it will wither, as it just doesn't have a place in the modern generation. IMO.

 

[stoker dave]

I think this is a very good and useful discussion.  Lumber makes some excellent points and brings a good perspective from his (or her?) generation.

I will also support the idea of fundamentally changing the RCL.  It should not be about sitting around and telling stories (some of which may even be true).  It should be about doing things.  Just off the top of my head, here is what I think the RCL should be doing:

- second career assistance and transition to civilian life
- assistance with job hunting and act as a recruiting agency for civilian jobs
- liaison with every other DND / veterans group / reserve unit
- liaison with every other ex-service group such as VVV, motorcycle clubs, RMC ex-cadets, etc. 
- supporting and assisting vital humanitarian work like supporting homeless vets
- a resource to provide ex-service personnel for speaking, consulting, work engagements, history lessons, etc.
- a repository of experts in their field(s)
- a repository of 'living history' that engages with students of history, provides reports and papers on various exercises, operations, etc. 
- regularly hold seminars to present and discuss DND activities, procurement, operations, exercises, etc. 

OK.  That is off the top of my head in five minutes.  What can anyone else offer? 

 

[Baz]

OK.  That is off the top of my head in five minutes.  What can anyone else offer?

Public education on the reality of military life, and some of the particular challenges faced by veterans, including mental health challenges.

 

[MilEME09]

The younger generations (I'm including millennials here) get most of their social interactions online, through social media and other communications platforms. Heck, most of the people I know (early to  mid-30s and younger) get physically uncomfortable when someone actually calls them instead of just texting/messaging them.

Sure, we still enjoy and crave actual physical "get-togethers", but these are far more limited to groups of people that we know well and are comfortable with being around (i.e. close friends and family).

So, the idea of regularly hanging out in a group setting with a revolving door of people that we only know passingly is just not a very appealing idea to modern generations. We simply don't like making small talk with people we don't know.

As a millennial I can say not all are online only introverts, I'd love to head over to the legion for pint now and again, but as many have stated, the atmosphere is sometimes less then welcoming to the younger generations of soldiers. The old boys club so to speak is an empire that needs to be brought down for the RCL to change, but people are stubborn.

 

[Kat Stevens]

As a millennial I can say not all are online only introverts, I'd love to head over to the legion for pint now and again, but as many have stated, the atmosphere is sometimes less then welcoming to the younger generations of soldiers. The old boys club so to speak is an empire that needs to be brought down for the RCL to change, but people are stubborn.

Don't worry, the old guys are dying off pretty regularly now, even faster thanks to covid. The real problem at legions is they are largely ran by people who never served a day in their lives, and view vets as a threat to their little kingdom. I see the little eye rolls when I'm in there with the the only other vet I talk to and we start swapping lies.

 

[Kilted]

I think to a certain degree this has always been found at the Legion, even when veterans outnumbered civilians. I've even heard stories about veterans from different wars being treated differently, because the older generation felt that the younger generation hadn't done as much as them. I think that there are two perceptions that keep current serving and recently retired members away any other time besides Remembrance Day. First off, is the number of civilians which are members, which unfortunately the Legion could not survive without. There isn't much that can be done about this besides have more serving and retired members join to offset the ratio. And of course there is the perception that the Legion is full of old people, while I am only basing this on my local situation, I'm sure it's true else where. I've seen some Legions who have been supportive of serving members, and others that have been indifferent. I even remember after a change of command parade the regiment went to the local Legion, we had a new troop acting as a GD because he didn't have a uniform, who was kicked out of the Legion because he was wearing a turban. I don't think that it was anyone from their executive who did it, and was probably a member acting on their own, but it was only about ten years ago.

 

[daftandbarmy]

I'd like nothing better than a bloodless coup to make the legion what it was supposed to be.

'Bloodless'? You're no fun

 

[dapaterson]

Most legions suffer from the problems every volunteer organization has: No one wants to do the hard stuff.  Owning and operating a club is hard work.  You have payroll, inventory and infrastructure costs to plan with limited revenue sources. 

Most Legions I have visited fail on planning their infra. As long as they can pay the tab for the beer delivery and the electricity and gas every month, they think they are successful.  That roof that need replacing every 15 year or so?  Not planned.  The 1957 boiler in the basement?  Nothing set aside for repairs or replacement.  The kitchen appliances, elevator, brickwork etc etc are not part of anyone's vision.  Even a fresh coat of paint isn't in the budget.

And so the buildings "develop more character".  And you can't raise bar prices because you're run down, and people won't pay more for drinking in a dive.  And since the parquet floor in the hall is uneven, the paint is peeling, and the kitchen can only produce hotdogs, chips and burnt coffee, you don't do great business in renting out the space for parties and receptions.


There's a Legion within 500m of my house, on a main street in a pretty desirable neighbourhood.  (Desirable despite, not because of, me living in the area).  It's bit of a destination area for restaurants and bars.  Yet the Legion can't make it work; their bar is a second-floor walk up with a decrepit elevator, and odd opening hours.  With some imagination they might be able to make it work; but I'm pretty sure that the shutdown due to COVID will close them down permanently.  Because even though they're sitting on a piece of land worth seven figures, I can't see any realistic assessment of their business resulting in anyone lending them a cent.

 

[Jarnhamar]

The Legion could take a bigger role in helping Vets deal with VAC. The Legion could offer a warmer environment for vets than the cold bureaucracy of Veterans Affairs. Expand on the Provincial Officer program.

Legion could tap into some VAC money to better redirect it to vets so we're not giving back hundreds of millions of dollars.

Legion gets some sorely needed cash flow for building maintenance and structure including paid staff which in turn supports the civilians and vets who like going there to socialize and drink.

 

[mariomike]

Ours went out of business back in 2013. Sold for $1,800,000

 

[MilEME09]

The brand new(ish) Kensington legion in Calgary is in a lot of trouble given covid 19. The company i work for leases from them, situation is bleak to say the least.

 

[Lumber]

There's a Legion within 500m of my house, on a main street in a pretty desirable neighbourhood.  (Desirable despite, not because of, me living in the area).  It's bit of a destination area for restaurants and bars.  Yet the Legion can't make it work; their bar is a second-floor walk up with a decrepit elevator, and odd opening hours.  With some imagination they might be able to make it work; but I'm pretty sure that the shutdown due to COVID will close them down permanently.  Because even though they're sitting on a piece of land worth seven figures, I can't see any realistic assessment of their business resulting in anyone lending them a cent.

This sounds a lot like the one on Main st. Is it?

 

[dapaterson]

This sounds a lot like the one on Main st. Is it?

Nope.

But it's funny how many have similar issues.  One could even say that those problems are... legion.