What Might Civil War Be Like?

[Good2Golf]

He’s being facetious.  You can’t honestly think that’s an option POTUS would consider.

Nothing really surprises anybody with him. He asked about using them to stop hurricanes, so... :dunno:

 

[blacktriangle]

Nothing really surprises anybody with him. He asked about using them to stop hurricanes, so... :dunno:

At least they haven't told him about the alien technology yet...

 

[ArmyRick]

In my opinion, an American civil war has already begun. look at the damage in the last six months.

 

[brihard]

How did white supremacist racist America survive the devastating riots after the US elected a black president, twice?

They festered and stewed in their rage, and they quietly organized both online and in real life meetups, training camps, etc. They evolved their own ideological ecosystems and leveraged social media to set pages and groups where they could identify prospects to pull into more covert communications circles. And they waited, and then in 2016 they voted for someone who signalled himself sufficient adjacent to or permissive of their beliefs and intolerance. And then they began emerging into the light, now being comfortable enough to begin to out themselves.

None of this stuff happens overnight. Ideological movements build over the course of years, and they wait for their chance.

 

[dimsum]

They festered and stewed in their rage, and they quietly organized both online and in real life meetups, training camps, etc. They evolved their own ideological ecosystems and leveraged social media to set pages and groups where they could identify prospects to pull into more covert communications circles. And they waited, and then in 2016 they voted for someone who signalled himself sufficient adjacent to or permissive of their beliefs and intolerance. And then they began emerging into the light, now being comfortable enough to begin to out themselves.

None of this stuff happens overnight. Ideological movements build over the course of years, and they wait for their chance.

Bingo. 

 

[mariomike]

They festered and stewed in their rage, and they quietly organized both online and in real life meetups, training camps, etc. They evolved their own ideological ecosystems and leveraged social media to set pages and groups where they could identify prospects to pull into more covert communications circles. And they waited, and then in 2016 they voted for someone who signalled himself sufficient adjacent to or permissive of their beliefs and intolerance. And then they began emerging into the light, now being comfortable enough to begin to out themselves.

None of this stuff happens overnight. Ideological movements build over the course of years, and they wait for their chance.

For reference to the discussion,

Trump frequently accuses the far-left of inciting violence, yet right-wing extremists have killed 329 victims in the last 25 years, while antifa members haven't killed any, according to a new study
https://www.businessinsider.com/right-wing-extremists-kill-329-since-1994-antifa-killed-none-2020-7

Anti-fascists linked to zero murders in the US in 25 years
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/27/us-rightwing-extremists-attacks-deaths-database-leftwing-antifa

A new database of nearly 900 politically motivated attacks and plots in the United States since 1994 includes just one attack staged by an anti-fascist that led to fatalities. In that case, the single person killed was the perpetrator.

Over the same time period, American white supremacists and other rightwing extremists have carried out attacks that left at least 329 victims dead, according to the database.

 

[tomahawk6]

In an interview the President stated that if he had to send the National Guard to the cities that Democrat mayors are unable to stop the violence that he could send troops under the "insurrection Act ". Under the act he could use the Regular Army but I would use the NG and keep the Regulars out of the policing business. .

https://www.history.com/news/insurrection-act-thomas-jefferson-aaron-burr

 

[Jarnhamar]

They festered and stewed in their rage, and they quietly organized both online and in real life meetups, training camps, etc. They evolved their own ideological ecosystems and leveraged social media to set pages and groups where they could identify prospects to pull into more covert communications circles. And they waited, and then in 2016 they voted for someone who signalled himself sufficient adjacent to or permissive of their beliefs and intolerance. And then they began emerging into the light, now being comfortable enough to begin to out themselves.

None of this stuff happens overnight. Ideological movements build over the course of years, and they wait for their chance.

I don't know brother, not even one riot? It seems strange they just decided to wait for 8 years and now the only thing that can stop this racism from all of a sudden exploding is to vote democrats.

I bet if a democrat is elected again nothing happens but if trumps elected democrat voters will go nuts.

 

[shawn5o]

For reference to the discussion,

Trump frequently accuses the far-left of inciting violence, yet right-wing extremists have killed 329 victims in the last 25 years, while antifa members haven't killed any, according to a new study
https://www.businessinsider.com/right-wing-extremists-kill-329-since-1994-antifa-killed-none-2020-7

Anti-fascists linked to zero murders in the US in 25 years
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/27/us-rightwing-extremists-attacks-deaths-database-leftwing-antifa

A new database of nearly 900 politically motivated attacks and plots in the United States since 1994 includes just one attack staged by an anti-fascist that led to fatalities. In that case, the single person killed was the perpetrator.

Over the same time period, American white supremacists and other rightwing extremists have carried out attacks that left at least 329 victims dead, according to the database.

Hi MM

I disagree with conclusions that antifa has practically no deaths on their hands.

a 19-year-old black man in Columbus, Ga., allegedly entered an AutoZone and stabbed a white employee in the neck (7 times) … it appears Jayvon Hatchett attempted to murder a “random” white man in the name of taking revenge for police shootings.

City of Portland – murders by antifa/blm + Protesters gathered outside a police precinct and shined lasers in officers’ eyes, disabled exterior security cameras, broke windows and used boards pulled from the precinct to barricade the doors and start a fire, authorities said. There were 20 sworn officers inside, as well as civilian employees (three officers may be blind for life)

City of Seattle  -  at least one murder in the CHOP or CHAZ

From The Washington Post

for Dave Patrick Underwood, a black officer in the Federal Protective Service who was shot while guarding an Oakland, Calif., federal courthouse (dead)

for David Dorn, a retired African American police captain who was killed in St. Louis while protecting a friend’s pawnshop from looters.

for Chris Beaty, an African American former offensive lineman for Indiana University, who was shot dead in an alley in Indianapolis after leaving a demonstration that had turned violent.

for Italia Marie Kelly, a 22-year-old black woman in Davenport, Iowa, who was shot in the back while getting into her car, trying to escape a protest that had turned into a riot. (dead)

It goes to describe the destruction of businesses, etc.

 

[brihard]

I don't know brother, not even one riot? It seems strange they just decided to wait for 8 years and now the only thing that can stop this racism from all of a sudden exploding is to vote democrats.

I bet if a democrat is elected again nothing happens but if trumps elected democrat voters will go nuts.

Their style hasn't so much been mass gatherings, though that changed at Charlotteville. The radical right tends towards smaller cell-based actions. There's been no shortage of far-right violence, as documented previously by others. We haven't seen large riots out of them of course.

I do not expect a democrat victory in the election would incite far-right riots, but I'm bloody sure there would be plenty of violence- smaller scale, probably significantly more deadly. That's what the domestic terrorism trends and data point to, anyway.

That is not to suggest that he resulting idiocy by either violent, radical fringe in any way deligitimizes the electoral outcome. It it's a fair and free election, the result is the result. Let's just not be naive and think there won't be some violence and ugliness either way.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Looking at the number or deaths attributed to the far right that's obviously more than the far left, so much deadlier I'd say over the last 25 years, but 329 murders is also a few months worth in Chicago.
329 deaths from white supremacists (or right wing? Whatever they're called) is scary but also a drop in the bucket compared to hang violence in the US.

I'm not sure if the people behind all these protests are  considered left wing  or not but they're attacking society and random strangers. Attacking shop keepers for trying to put fires out. If we were picking teams, and correct me if I'm wrong, I think the violent protestors are aligned more with Antifa than the right wing equivalent?

I'm really biased against these protestors and Antifa groups. Safe to say I'm not being as open minded and objective about it as you are. I get that it's colouring my opinion, for sure. I'll do some reading about it and see what I find (domestic terrorism trends).

 

[brihard]

Looking at the number or deaths attributed to the far right that's obviously more than the far left, so much deadlier I'd say over the last 25 years, but 329 murders is also a few months worth in Chicago.
329 deaths from white supremacists (or right wing? Whatever they're called) is scary but also a drop in the bucket compared to hang violence in the US.

I'm not sure if the people behind all these protests are  considered left wing  or not but they're attacking society and random strangers. Attacking shop keepers for trying to put fires out. If we were picking teams, and correct me if I'm wrong, I think the violent protestors are aligned more with Antifa than the right wing equivalent?

I'm really biased against these protestors and Antifa groups. Safe to say I'm not being as open minded and objective about it as you are. I get that it's colouring my opinion, for sure. I'll do some reading about it and see what I find (domestic terrorism trends).

I wouldn't say I'm being 'open minded', just objective on the strict claims being made. I think and hope I don't need to convince you that I have an exceedingly low opinion of those who are smashing stuff, lighting fires, tearing things down, mobbing people, etc. This stuff gets stupid again up here, odds are I'll be in the riot line getting stuff thrown at me... I'm hoping we can avoid that.

 

[Retired AF Guy]

From The Washington Post

for Dave Patrick Underwood, a black officer in the Federal Protective Service who was shot while guarding an Oakland, Calif., federal courthouse (dead)

Underwood was shot by a member of the right-wing Boogaloo movement.

for David Dorn, a retired African American police captain who was killed in St. Louis while protecting a friend’s pawnshop from looters.

Yes, killed by looters, but were they antifa/BLM members or just criminals taking advantage of the situation. Wikipedia.

for Chris Beaty, an African American former offensive lineman for Indiana University, who was shot dead in an alley in Indianapolis after leaving a demonstration that had turned violent.

Killed while coming to the aid of two women being mugged in an parking garage. More here.

for Italia Marie Kelly, a 22-year-old black woman in Davenport, Iowa, who was shot in the back while getting into her car, trying to escape a protest that had turned into a riot.

May have been a targeted killing.

It goes to describe the destruction of businesses, etc.[/quote]

 

[Jarnhamar]

[quote author=Brihard] . I think and hope I don't need to convince you that I have an exceedingly low opinion of those who are smashing stuff, lighting fires, tearing things down, mobbing people, etc.
[/quote]
Not at all. I think we're on the same page with how repulsive that bevahior is.


[quote author=Retired AF Guy]

It goes to describe the destruction of businesses, etc.
[/quote]

It's sad seeing them tear themselves apart like they are. And sad for all those innocent people just trying to get by caught in a cross fire.

 

[FJAG]

Not at all. I think we're on the same page with how repulsive that bevahior is.


It's sad seeing them tear themselves apart like they are. And sad for all those innocent people just trying to get by caught in a cross fire.

It bears remembering that notwithstanding the fact that these types of activities are shown almost continuously on the news that there are some twenty thousand cities, towns and villages in the US and that only a small handful of them are having any of the rioting or violence we see on TV. The vast majority are living their normal peaceful lives (at least as one can in a pandemic)

It's hard to keep perspective sometimes when you are being fed the news at the end of a fire hose.

:cheers:

 

[daftandbarmy]

It bears remembering that notwithstanding the fact that these types of activities are shown almost continuously on the news that there are some twenty thousand cities, towns and villages in the US and that only a small handful of them are having any of the rioting or violence we see on TV. The vast majority are living their normal peaceful lives (at least as one can in a pandemic)

It's hard to keep perspective sometimes when you are being fed the news at the end of a fire hose.

:cheers:

Exactly. 99% of those in 'dangerous war zones' are just getting on with their lives, normal or otherwise

Even in Northern Ireland, at the height of 'The Troubles', a conflict that killed over 3000 people, in the countryside we we would occasionally stop and search cars at VCPs etc where the civvies would ask us questions like: 'why is the Army here?'. Even in large cities, one neighbourhood could be a wild west show while another, a few blocks away, was perfectly quiet and normal.

It just reinforced to us that, when you're engaging with populations of whole countries during a civil-type war, not everyone is having a similar experience and it's unwise to engage with them as such.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

It bears remembering that notwithstanding the fact that these types of activities are shown almost continuously on the news that there are some twenty thousand cities, towns and villages in the US and that only a small handful of them are having any of the rioting or violence we see on TV. The vast majority are living their normal peaceful lives (at least as one can in a pandemic)

It's hard to keep perspective sometimes when you are being fed the news at the end of a fire hose.

:cheers:

Even before all this, 54% of the Homicides in the US were confined to 2% of the counties and even in those they were clustered.

 

[shawn5o]

Underwood was shot by a member of the right-wing Boogaloo movement.

Yes, killed by looters, but were they antifa/BLM members or just criminals taking advantage of the situation. Wikipedia.

Killed while coming to the aid of two women being mugged in an parking garage. More here.

May have been a targeted killing.

It goes to describe the destruction of businesses, etc.

Thanks RAFG

The boogaloo guy I didn't know about. But I don't entirely accept the other findings. For instance, the report states; According to a report by Fox 59 in Indianapolis, police have arrested a man that may be connected to the murder of former IU football player Chris Beaty. As for Captain Dorn, looters took advantage of the sit. Marquaello Futrell wrote: ‘The man just was shot and killed outside of Lee’s Pawn and Jewelry has me sick to my stomach.’ He suggested eyewitnesses did not help Dorn after he was shot, adding: ‘It’s one thing to be a victim of a robbery/assault but to lie in you own blood pleading for help and no help comes other than people standing around on FB Live recording his death. All over social media. I’m upset and can’t sleep!’ https://therightscoop.com/antifa-murder-man-shot-and-killed-by-portland-rioter-watch-as-mostly-peaceful-protesters-celebrate-in-the-street/

Note that there were other ppl and not one assisted. Dollars to donuts they were blm/antifa supporters

And that poor lady, Italia Kelly, - you're right. It seems like a targeted killing, however, the question remains was the killer also a protester?


From Portland

The ID of the deceased man is not confirmed yet but he was wearing a thin blue line patch & a hat which had the Patriot Prayer logo, suggesting he was one of the conservatives. Antifa falsely said a fascist killed a black person tonight, which riled up their people to violence.


https://twitter.com/i/status/1299921687048118272

https://twitter.com/i/status/1299931538717507584

Listen closely. This was the instant of the murder in Portland.

A: "Hey! Hey, we got one right here! We got a Trumper right here!"
B: "Right here?"
<Two gunshots>
https://twitter.com/i/status/1299981166250926080

 

[Donald H]

They festered and stewed in their rage, and they quietly organized both online and in real life meetups, training camps, etc. They evolved their own ideological ecosystems and leveraged social media to set pages and groups where they could identify prospects to pull into more covert communications circles. And they waited, and then in 2016 they voted for someone who signalled himself sufficient adjacent to or permissive of their beliefs and intolerance. And then they began emerging into the light, now being comfortable enough to begin to out themselves.

None of this stuff happens overnight. Ideological movements build over the course of years, and they wait for their chance.

Exactly, and very well stated IMO! The general feeling amongst Canadians who are politically involved with what's happening with Trump is just that. Even though it's not spoken as such nearly enough. In a nutshell, Trump's entire agenda depends on stirring up racist hate that always was moldering away in the closets of America's south, along with the bedsheets and pointy hats.

 

[shawn5o]

Exactly, and very well stated IMO! The general feeling amongst Canadians who are politically involved with what's happening with Trump is just that. Even though it's not spoken as such nearly enough. In a nutshell, Trump's entire agenda depends on stirring up racist hate that always was moldering away in the closets of America's south, along with the bedsheets and pointy hats.

That's quite the claim Don.

I think you'll like this

https://twitter.com/guypbenson/status/1299587325677232128/photo/1