What can replace the Twin Otter?

[lenaitch]

I think they tried the Buffalo with an augmented wing, jets, and some type of float system. It was awesome to watch but very limited payload

It seems there are few limits to what they can stick on floats:

N130Q | Douglas DC-3 | Private | Kevin Porter | JetPhotos

Back on floats for the first time in 15 years! This DC-3 is the only such type ever fitted with amphibious floats. Approximately 30 sets of Model 78-29000 floats were built by the Edo Corporation for C-47s during WWII, and roughly a half dozen C-47s operated as floatplanes in military service...

www.jetphotos.com

Air Force Wants to Move Fast on Boat Plane for Special Operators

The Air Force is moving forward with an amphibious, pontoon-equipped version of the MC-130J Commando II.

www.military.com

 

[armrdsoul77]

The 54 yr old CC-138 Twin Otters are getting an Air Mobility Grey makeover to better reflect their air mobility support role.

21K views · 596 reactions | We’ve got a fresh new look for the Twin Otter! We call it: Air Mobility Grey. The first of the Twin Otter’s fleet of aircraft has received this fresh coat of paint to better align with its mandate of air mobility support to Canadian Armed Forces in Canada’s North. The upgraded design also features black paint on the tops of the wings, horizontal stabilizer, and elevator to absorb the sun’s energy to help de-ice on those super chilly, remote northern Canada days! #TwinOtter | Royal Canadian Air Force

 

[YZT580]

The 54 yr old CC-138 Twin Otters are getting an Air Mobility Grey makeover to better reflect their air mobility support role.

21K views · 596 reactions | We’ve got a fresh new look for the Twin Otter! We call it: Air Mobility Grey. The first of the Twin Otter’s fleet of aircraft has received this fresh coat of paint to better align with its mandate of air mobility support to Canadian Armed Forces in Canada’s North. The upgraded design also features black paint on the tops of the wings, horizontal stabilizer, and elevator to absorb the sun’s energy to help de-ice on those super chilly, remote northern Canada days! #TwinOtter | Royal Canadian Air Force

good colour choice. It will make it hard to see the duct tape.

 

[OldSolduer]

The 54 yr old CC-138 Twin Otters are getting an Air Mobility Grey makeover to better reflect their air mobility support role.

21K views · 596 reactions | We’ve got a fresh new look for the Twin Otter! We call it: Air Mobility Grey. The first of the Twin Otter’s fleet of aircraft has received this fresh coat of paint to better align with its mandate of air mobility support to Canadian Armed Forces in Canada’s North. The upgraded design also features black paint on the tops of the wings, horizontal stabilizer, and elevator to absorb the sun’s energy to help de-ice on those super chilly, remote northern Canada days! #TwinOtter | Royal Canadian Air Force

I would hardly describe the weather conditions as "super chilly". Who wrote this crap?

"super chilly" is like -20C. Anything lower is fucking cold.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

The single Otter. I loved those things!

It seems there are few limits to what they can stick on floats:

N130Q | Douglas DC-3 | Private | Kevin Porter | JetPhotos

Back on floats for the first time in 15 years! This DC-3 is the only such type ever fitted with amphibious floats. Approximately 30 sets of Model 78-29000 floats were built by the Edo Corporation for C-47s during WWII, and roughly a half dozen C-47s operated as floatplanes in military service...

www.jetphotos.com

Air Force Wants to Move Fast on Boat Plane for Special Operators

The Air Force is moving forward with an amphibious, pontoon-equipped version of the MC-130J Commando II.

www.military.com

I cannot even fathom the amount of drag and turbulence those would cause either aircraft.

 

[armrdsoul77]

It seems there are few limits to what they can stick on floats:

But is it always advisable?

 

[don3wing]

I too was under the impression that the FWSAR replacement would be in the same situation as the Cormorants, which is that they'll be for domestic use only.

As for resurrecting the Twin Otter production lines to produce half a dozen aircraft, it's not financially realistic to do that. It would cost far more money than it'd be worth unless you could find buyers for additional aircraft. Otherwise, I say stop these ridiculous procurement plans that cost millions more than they should and instead, buy something that's already in production.

Inch, The Twin Otters are still in production with a new model Classic 300-G taking to the sky on January 27 2025.

44K views · 871 reactions | The first in-flight test of the Twin Otter Classic 300-G just took to the skies. This flight test aircraft was equipped with the Classic 300-G product... | By De Havilland Canada | Facebook

The first in-flight test of the Twin Otter Classic 300-G just took to the skies. This flight test aircraft was equipped with the Classic 300-G product...

www.facebook.com

The first in-flight test of the Twin Otter Classic 300-G just took to the skies. This flight test aircraft was equipped with the Classic 300-G product enhancements, which includes the fully integrated Garmin suite. The avionics suite features digital displays that provides flight instrumentation, engine and aircraft system information, flight plan data, as well as terrain information and weather radar.
A special shoutout to the DHC teams that worked hard to make this successful test flight happen. We’re looking forward to seeing the next generation of the Twin Otter in the sky soon!

 

[calculus]

Inch, The Twin Otters are still in production with a new model Classic 300-G taking to the sky on January 27 2025.

44K views · 871 reactions | The first in-flight test of the Twin Otter Classic 300-G just took to the skies. This flight test aircraft was equipped with the Classic 300-G product... | By De Havilland Canada | Facebook

The first in-flight test of the Twin Otter Classic 300-G just took to the skies. This flight test aircraft was equipped with the Classic 300-G product...

www.facebook.com

The first in-flight test of the Twin Otter Classic 300-G just took to the skies. This flight test aircraft was equipped with the Classic 300-G product enhancements, which includes the fully integrated Garmin suite. The avionics suite features digital displays that provides flight instrumentation, engine and aircraft system information, flight plan data, as well as terrain information and weather radar.
A special shoutout to the DHC teams that worked hard to make this successful test flight happen. We’re looking forward to seeing the next generation of the Twin Otter in the sky soon!

Following up on @don3wing's post: Twin Otter Classic 300-G - De Havilland Canada


Of additional note: Two engine options, one with substantially more power than the PT6A-27 on the current CC-138, and a substantial weight reduction (400-500 lbs).

Seems like a pretty good option to replace the current fleet.

 

[YZT580]

Following up on @don3wing's post: Twin Otter Classic 300-G - De Havilland Canada


Of additional note: Two engine options, one with substantially more power than the PT6A-27 on the current CC-138, and a substantial weight reduction (400-500 lbs).

Seems like a pretty good option to replace the current fleet.

or supplement it. The True North covers a lot of territory. It wouldn't hurt to have a/c and reserve crews positioned throughout considering the time required for a Kingfisher to make its way north

 

[Colin Parkinson]

If only there was a replacement for 54 year aircraft with a new one with the same or better characteristics and made in Canada...........

 

[suffolkowner]

If only there was a replacement for 54 year aircraft with a new one with the same or better characteristics and made in Canada...........

did we end up paying more to fix them up then to buy the new ones or was that plan cancelled?

 

[Colin Parkinson]

I prefer to buy new, keeps our aviation industry going and reduces the maintenance requirements that the RCAF needs to do.

 

[Kirkhill]

As of February 2023, there were 108 Twin Otters registered in Canada.

List of de Havilland Canada DHC-6 Twin Otter operators - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

If Poilievre is serious about pumping up the North I wonder how many northern pilots have already got time in on the Twin Otters with floats and skis as will as big tires. Buy some new ones and recruit some of the pilots into the Rangers as an auxiliary air service? Add some helicopters as well?

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

I keep telling people: What we need in the North is an Air Rangers Patrols program There are already a whole tons of bush pilots that fly twofers up there that would love to also do it for the government on national defense or national service duty. They know the plane, they know the territory, they know how much depends on those planes and they know the intricacies of the weather up there. Get them modern Twin Otters, the support bases and minimal military indoctrination and they will patrol up there, carry out emergency support for the local population and local SAR in the blink of an eye.

 

[captloadie]

I keep telling people: What we need in the North is an Air Rangers Patrols program There are already a whole tons of bush pilots that fly twofers up there that would love to also do it for the government on national defense or national service duty. They know the plane, they know the territory, they know how much depends on those planes and they know the intricacies of the weather up there. Get them modern Twin Otters, the support bases and minimal military indoctrination and they will patrol up there, carry out emergency support for the local population and local SAR in the blink of an eye.

We would have to somehow work this so that the aircraft and pilots were outside the CAF. Like it or not, if a human is flying a CAF aircraft, the RCAF dictates the standards. This would overly complicate matters, and would likely deter Rangers from joining. I just don't see a world where a Comd RCAF accepts the risk from how we currently do things, and the thing about the Rangers is that they aren't designed to be, nor do I think they want to be, overregulated.

It would be worthwhile setting up a separate agency, that owned the aircraft and was responsible for the operation and airworthiness decisions, and Rangers were seconded to it to do the flying.

 

[YZT580]

We would have to somehow work this so that the aircraft and pilots were outside the CAF. Like it or not, if a human is flying a CAF aircraft, the RCAF dictates the standards. This would overly complicate matters, and would likely deter Rangers from joining. I just don't see a world where a Comd RCAF accepts the risk from how we currently do things, and the thing about the Rangers is that they aren't designed to be, nor do I think they want to be, overregulated.

It would be worthwhile setting up a separate agency, that owned the aircraft and was responsible for the operation and airworthiness decisions, and Rangers were seconded to it to do the flying.

like Air America?

 

[captloadie]

Technically Air America was a shell company, and not a government agency.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

We would have to somehow work this so that the aircraft and pilots were outside the CAF. Like it or not, if a human is flying a CAF aircraft, the RCAF dictates the standards. This would overly complicate matters, and would likely deter Rangers from joining. I just don't see a world where a Comd RCAF accepts the risk from how we currently do things, and the thing about the Rangers is that they aren't designed to be, nor do I think they want to be, overregulated.

It would be worthwhile setting up a separate agency, that owned the aircraft and was responsible for the operation and airworthiness decisions, and Rangers were seconded to it to do the flying.

We already have that as Transport Canada Civil Aviation which flies it's own aircraft and provides aircraft/helicopters for the CCG and DFO. Not sure if the RCMP owns the pilots and aircraft or they are owned by TC as well? You could set up a air version of Fleet Auxiliaries under TC but operate in support of DND, including Northern based fixed wing and helicopters for the AOP's domestic patrols.

 

[Blackadder1916]

We would have to somehow work this so that the aircraft and pilots were outside the CAF. Like it or not, if a human is flying a CAF aircraft, the RCAF dictates the standards. This would overly complicate matters, and would likely deter Rangers from joining. I just don't see a world where a Comd RCAF accepts the risk from how we currently do things, and the thing about the Rangers is that they aren't designed to be, nor do I think they want to be, overregulated.

It would be worthwhile setting up a separate agency, that owned the aircraft and was responsible for the operation and airworthiness decisions, and Rangers were seconded to it to do the flying.

Would not a separate government agency also "over-regulate"? If the goal is to have aircraft more widely available for CAF use across the North, why not manage them the same as we used to (still do?) with Canadian Rangers' privately owned snow machines, have a standing agreement with local, licensed pilots (the same base from which they would draw "Air Rangers") that when they show up with their machines they will be compensated for their use. Or, as not all pilots will be owner-operators, have agreements with local aircraft owners who may also be the employers of the same pilots who are already qualified on the specific a/c.

 

[YZT580]

Would not a separate government agency also "over-regulate"? If the goal is to have aircraft more widely available for CAF use across the North, why not manage them the same as we used to (still do?) with Canadian Rangers' privately owned snow machines, have a standing agreement with local, licensed pilots (the same base from which they would draw "Air Rangers") that when they show up with their machines they will be compensated for their use. Or, as not all pilots will be owner-operators, have agreements with local aircraft owners who may also be the employers of the same pilots who are already qualified on the specific a/c.

Or supply Buffalo Airways and the like with a couple of DHC6s (or DC3s if you prefer) for them to use with the CAF having first call when needed, similar to the way Britain manages their fleet auxiliary only with airplanes