Warrant Officers in the US and Canadian Armies - confusion re: status?
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I spent some time in the U.S.with an Air national guard unit, and as a Canadian WO they came up with a classification of E8 for me. This was I'm told based on the position not title, and equated via Coast Guard ranks.
As an Infantry man at an air force base, it did not suprise me they had to use naval systems to come up with the classification (Hic).
Does this make sense to anyone else?
As an Infantry man at an air force base, it did not suprise me they had to use naval systems to come up with the classification (Hic).
Does this make sense to anyone else?
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Sure - as a Warrant Officer in Canada, you weren't equivlent in position to a US Warrant Officer (which is a commissioned officer), you were equivelent to a E-8, which is a Senior NCO; they're Sergeant (and Petty Officer) levels go much higher than ours (where Warrant Officers come in).
What's in a name, eh?
What's in a name, eh?
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E7 Sgt 1st class
E8 Master Sergeant or 1st Sergeant
At the E-8 level, the Army have two positions at the same pay grade. Whether one is a Master Sergeant or a first sergeant in the Army depends on the person's job.
A Master Sergeant works in a staff position, whereas a First Sergeant is responsible for a Company of soldiers.
E9 Sergeant Major, Command Sergeant Major, Sergeant Major of the Army
The same is true for the positions at the E-9 level (SGM and CSM), except that they are at a Battalion or higher level. Army Sergeant Majors and Command Sergeant Majors receive the same pay but have different responsibilities.
per the equvalence cheat sheets I see that they say:
WOs = Sgt 1st class / Master Sgt
MWOs= 1st Sgt Sgt Major
CWOs = Cmd Sgt Major / Sgt Major of the army
what it boils down to is that the WOs straddle the E6/E7 line
the MWOs straddle the E7/E8 line and
the CWOs straddle the E8/E9 line
E8 Master Sergeant or 1st Sergeant
At the E-8 level, the Army have two positions at the same pay grade. Whether one is a Master Sergeant or a first sergeant in the Army depends on the person's job.
A Master Sergeant works in a staff position, whereas a First Sergeant is responsible for a Company of soldiers.
E9 Sergeant Major, Command Sergeant Major, Sergeant Major of the Army
The same is true for the positions at the E-9 level (SGM and CSM), except that they are at a Battalion or higher level. Army Sergeant Majors and Command Sergeant Majors receive the same pay but have different responsibilities.
per the equvalence cheat sheets I see that they say:
WOs = Sgt 1st class / Master Sgt
MWOs= 1st Sgt Sgt Major
CWOs = Cmd Sgt Major / Sgt Major of the army
what it boils down to is that the WOs straddle the E6/E7 line
the MWOs straddle the E7/E8 line and
the CWOs straddle the E8/E9 line
geo said:
If those US equivalent ranks are correct,
the WO straddles the E7/E8 line (Sgt 1st class / Master Sgt)
the MWO straddles the E8/E9 line (1st Sgt/Sgt Major)
the CWO is a senior E9 in US terms (Cmd Sgt Major / Sgt Major of the Army)
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You are correct, The MCpl rank is E5/E6, Sgt is E6/E7. This is due to what postion thay have. IE a E5 Sgt could only be a driver, due to it is a base rank for most. During one SUE. E5s were not allowed in the WO/Sgt mess vis our MCpl could go to the E5 mess.ibilola said:
Acorn said:
So they don't have the full range of responsibilities as Commissioned Officers.
Interestingly the British Army's QRs are quite specific about saluting:
8.057.
a. Warrant officers, NCOs and soldiers are to salute all commissioned officers who they know to be such, whether in uniform or not, including officers of the Royal Navy, Royal Marines and Royal Air Force, Warrant officers, NCOs and soldiers are to salute with the right hand. Where from physical incapacity a right hand salute is impossible, the salute is to be given with the left hand.
b. NCOs and soldiers are to address warrant officers in the same manner as for officers, but are not to salute them.
The question is whether US WOs are categorised under 'a' or 'b'
AmmoTech90
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They fall under A.
Just because they are called Warrant Officers does not mean they are the same as a British Warrant Officer. Same name, different rank. The US regulations state that a Warrant Officer is saluted, therefore, common courtesy says that other forces should as well. If anyone gets their knickers in a knot about saluting US Warrant Officersit they are being childish.
Just because they are called Warrant Officers does not mean they are the same as a British Warrant Officer. Same name, different rank. The US regulations state that a Warrant Officer is saluted, therefore, common courtesy says that other forces should as well. If anyone gets their knickers in a knot about saluting US Warrant Officersit they are being childish.
Michael Dorosh
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Big Foot said:Wow, thats a new one on me... Didn't know anyone could ever salute with their left hand. I suppose this emoticon has the right to salute with its left hand, seeing as how it only has a left arm...
ALL Canadian soldiers were expected to salute with the left hand up until 1915 or so. If the officer being saluted was on your right, you saluted with the left, and vice versa, ie the hand furthest from the person being paid compliments to. During the First World War, drill underwent a lot of changes, and we adopted British "Guards Drill" which we still do today - all the foot stamping and swinging of arms stuff.
As for technical aspects of being a warrant officer, consider this - WOs don't wear trades badges because at that rank level, they are expected to interact with soldiers of all trades. A WO in an infantry unit will be expected, for example, to lead infantry soldiers in action as a platoon WO, as well as be in charge of storesmen as company quartermaster sergeant, deal with drivers and communicators possibly by taking a turn as Transport WO or Signals WO, etc. The situation is similar for Troop Warrants in the engineers, artillery, armoured, etc.
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A note abut saluting with Left hand. QR&O's (QR&R'S can't remember ?) may say something regarding saluting with left however in 15 years I never once came across a reference with exception of saluting with the rifle.
Funny story.
Brit Brigadier jacked up one of my troops in Garrison for not saluting him . Young buck had a broken right hand.
I came along, and thinking He's just another Subaltern (not noticing the lettuce on his shoulder) calmly informed him of Canadian S.o.p's. He looks at me, takes my name, and leaves. Two days later, I'm leaving Gatwick on a flight home.
Funny story.
Brit Brigadier jacked up one of my troops in Garrison for not saluting him . Young buck had a broken right hand.
I came along, and thinking He's just another Subaltern (not noticing the lettuce on his shoulder) calmly informed him of Canadian S.o.p's. He looks at me, takes my name, and leaves. Two days later, I'm leaving Gatwick on a flight home.
EW said:
Here's the recently updated (October 2005) definitions of the US Warrant Officer for your WO Board:
The Army WO is a selfâ “aware and adaptive technical expert, combat leader, trainer, and advisor. Through progressive levels of expertise in assignments, training, and education, the WO administers, manages, maintains, operates, and integrates Army systems and equipment across the full spectrum of Army operations. Warrant Officers are innovative integrators of emerging technologies, dynamic teachers, confident warfighters, and developers of specialized teams of soldiers. They support a wide range of Army missions throughout their career. Warrant officers in the Army are accessed with specific levels of technical ability. They refine their technical expertise and develop their leadership and management skills through tiered progressive assignment and education. The following are specific characteristics and responsibilities of the separate, successive WO grades.
a. Warrant officer one. An officer appointed by warrant with the requisite authority pursuant to assignment level and position given by the Secretary of the Army. WO1s are basic level, technically and tactically focused officers who perform the primary duties of technical leader, trainer, operator, manager, maintainer, sustainer, and advisor. They also perform any other branch-related duties assigned to them. They also provide direction, guidance, resources, assistance, and supervision necessary for subordinates to perform their duties. WO1s have specific responsibility for accomplishing the missions and tasks assigned to them and, if assigned as a commander, the collective or organizational responsibility for how well their command performs its mission. WO1s primarily support levels of operations from team or detachment through battalion, requiring interaction with all soldier cohorts and primary staff. They provide leader development, mentorship, and counsel to enlisted soldiers and NCOs.
b. Chief warrant officer two. CW2s are commissioned officers with the requisite authority pursuant to assignment level and position as given by the President of the U.S.. CW2s are intermediate level technical and tactical experts who perform the primary duties of technical leader, trainer, operator, manager, maintainer, sustainer, and advisor. They also perform any other branch-related duties assigned to them. They provide direction, guidance, resources, assistance, and supervision necessary for subordinates to perform their duties. They have specific responsibility for accomplishing the missions and tasks assigned to them and, if assigned as a commander, the collective or organizational responsibility for how well their command performs its mission. CW2s primarily support levels of operations from team or detachment through battalion, requiring interaction with all soldier cohorts and primary staff. They provide leader development, mentorship, advice, and counsel to NCOs, other WOs and company-grade branch officers.
c. Chief warrant officer three. CW3s are commissioned officers with the requisite authority pursuant to assignment level and position as given by the President of the U.S.. CW3s are advanced-level technical and tactical experts who perform the primary duties of technical leader, trainer, operator, manager, maintainer, sustainer, integrator, and advisor. They also perform any other branch-related duties assigned to them. They provide direction, guidance, resources, assistance, and supervision necessary for subordinates to perform their duties. CW3s have specific responsibility for accomplishing the missions and tasks assigned to them and, if assigned as a commander, the collective or organizational responsibility for how well their command performs its mission. CW3s primarily support levels of operations from team or detachment through brigade, requiring interaction with all soldier cohorts and primary staff. They provide leader development, mentorship, advice, and counsel to NCOs, other WOs and branch officers. CW3s advise commanders on WO issues.
d. Chief warrant officer four. CW4s are commissioned officers with the requisite authority pursuant to assignment level and position as given by the President of the U.S.. CW4s are senior-level technical and tactical experts who perform the primary duties of technical leader, manager, maintainer, sustainer, integrator and advisor. They also perform any other branch-related duties assigned to them. They provide direction, guidance, resources, assistance, and supervision necessary for subordinates to perform their duties. CW4s have specific responsibility for accomplishing the missions and tasks assigned to them and, if assigned as a commander, the collective or organizational responsibility for how well their command performs its mission. They primarily support battalion, brigade, division, corps, and echelons above corps operations. They must interact with NCOs, other officers, primary staff, and special staff. CW4s primarily provide leader development, mentorship, advice, and counsel to NCOs, other WOs and branch officers. They have special mentorship responsibilities for other WOs and provide essential advice to commanders on WO issues.
e. Chief warrant officer five. CW5s are commissioned officers with the requisite authority pursuant to assignment level and position as given by the President of the U.S.. CW5s are master-level technical and tactical experts who perform the primary duties of technical leader, manager, integrator, advisor, or any other particular duty prescribed by branch. They provide direction, guidance, resources, assistance, and supervision necessary for subordinates to perform their duties. CW5s have specific responsibility for accomplishing the missions and tasks assigned to them. CW5s primarily support brigade, division, corps, echelons above corps, and major command operations. They must interact with NCOs, other officers, primary staff and special staff. They provide leader development, mentorship, advice, and counsel to WOs and branch officers. CW5s have special WO leadership and representation responsibilities within their respective commands. They provide essential advice to commanders on WO issues."
Arctic Acorn
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This doesn't involve WOs specifically, but I just came back from a NATO exercise recently, where I did up a rank comparison chart based on the NATO STANAG.
One highlight that I found interesting is that Master Corporals are considered E-5s, but so are Sergeants with less than 3 (or 5...can't remember offhand) time in rank.
Another neat point I discovered is that their NCOs (Germany and the Netherlands, specifically) are selected and trained in much the same way our commissioned officers are. They are either selected from the ranks to be an NCO and go to an NCO academy, or go to the NCO academy directly. As soon as they graduate they become sergeants.
Apologies for the tangent... :dontpanic:
One highlight that I found interesting is that Master Corporals are considered E-5s, but so are Sergeants with less than 3 (or 5...can't remember offhand) time in rank.
Another neat point I discovered is that their NCOs (Germany and the Netherlands, specifically) are selected and trained in much the same way our commissioned officers are. They are either selected from the ranks to be an NCO and go to an NCO academy, or go to the NCO academy directly. As soon as they graduate they become sergeants.
Apologies for the tangent... :dontpanic:
