War In Iraq Debate

[scm77]

Me and a couple of my buddies were having a discussion about the war in iraq today. I personally was always in favour of it. Today one of my friends brought up a good point.

September 11, approx. 3000 people were killed by terrorists. The attitude of America was kill those pieces of s--t that did this. They go to war in Afghanistan and everybody supports it (mostly).

Saddam Hussein in the decades he was in power inprisons, tortures and executes hundreds of thousands of people, he invades two countries, he uses chemical weapons on his own people, he launched scuds at Israel, he violates UN resolutions and he fails to prove he destroyed all his chemical weapons. All this and most a large percent of americans say "Oh leave him alone he hasn‘t done anything to us."

The problem with the US is that alot of them are self centered. They don‘t realise that the people in Iraq didn‘t have the freedom to protest agains their government. The US is really the only country that can do anything significant to help them. It doesn‘t matter if he didn‘t have any WMD‘s before the war because he had and used them in the past. Saddam is gone for good. The Middle East and the entire world are safer now.


There‘s not really a point to this thread, I‘m not asking any specific questions. I just thought it was something interesting. I would like to hear your thoughts about americans only caring about themselves and how attitudes changed from the war in Afghanistan and the war in Iraq

 

[L/MCpl_Argyll_ Kurrgan]

Well, the US gave those chemical to Iraq in the 80‘s to fight the Iranians. Back in the 80‘s the US liked Saddam and didn‘t like Iran. So the US supported Hussien, along with some other guys you were fighting the US enemy‘s of the 80‘s. Hint Hint...its Osama. There are pictures of Donnie Rumsfeld and Saddam shaking hands and javing a laugh. Back then old Donnie had a lot less grey hair. So really, behind all this freeing Iraq reasoning. It‘s really the US trying to get their toys back.

 

[Paul F]

Originally posted by L/MCpl_Argyll_ Kurrgan:
[qb] Back in the 80‘s the US liked Saddam and didn‘t like Iran. [/qb]

I wouldn‘t say the US liked Saddam per say, more like he was seen as the lesser of two evils.

 

[John Nayduk]

Let's not forget that every country will act in their own best interest first. That's the job of any government. If the Americans choose not invade Iraq during those dark years, it was because it was not in their best interest. The bad guys in Afghanistan became their best interest after 9/11. I'm sure that if 9/11 hadn't happened, then they wouldn't give a rat's buttocks what happened in Afghanistan, either.
Just because the U.S. have invested in their military and choose to be the big kid on the block doesn't make them obligated to do any thing for anybody who choose not to invest in their own militaries. It's like if I don't invest in a lawn mower, why should my neighbour be obligated to come over and cut my grass for me UNLESS it bugs him so much that he can't stand it. Then he's acting in his own best interest, not mine. The result is the same; I get my grass cut but it's on his terms, not mine.
So if we don't bother to invest in our military, why should the Americans be obligated to help us out UNTIL it becomes in their best interest and then they will do it on their terms, not ours and we only have ourselves to blame.

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

Hey ARG would that work as well with dishes for the wife?

 

[John Nayduk]

Hasn‘t so far.

 

[Infanteer]

I‘ve given this example before, but I think it is a good analogy. Was Lend-Lease morally wrong in the fact that it supported Stalinist Russia, a regime that was on par with Nazi Germany?

Well, the US gave those chemical to Iraq in the 80‘s to fight the Iranians. Back in the 80‘s the US liked Saddam and didn‘t like Iran. So the US supported Hussien, along with some other guys you were fighting the US enemy‘s of the 80‘s. Hint Hint...its Osama. There are pictures of Donnie Rumsfeld and Saddam shaking hands and javing a laugh. Back then old Donnie had a lot less grey hair. So really, behind all this freeing Iraq reasoning. It‘s really the US trying to get their toys back.

I would like to see the proof on this. I can‘t see the American‘s giving Saddam WMD as well as arming Israel at the same time. If I recall, the Soviet Union was the number one military supplier to Hussein (those weren‘t burnt out M-60‘s in the sandbox).

 

[tmbluesbflat]

You have to go back a few years to see who the players are, The US is about oil not about humanitarian etc. Sadam bad as he was, was not as bad as who put him in power and who gave him the weapons and who helped him in the use thereof. The US put him there so that the IRAQI people could be controlled in the interests of the US not in their own interests, and of course they are not Arabs, so they were a convenient force to be used against any Muslims who were against the US stealing their assets such as Iran etc. It helps if you read something in the way of honest reporting, a difficult thing to do in these days of the politically correct censorship.

 

[Infanteer]

Please, provide us with an example of some honest reporting than.

 

[Infanteer]

The US is about oil not about humanitarian etc

On another note, please tell me where I may find oil in Kosovo.

Sadam bad as he was, was not as bad as who put him in power and who gave him the weapons and who helped him in the use thereof.

On a third note, please tell me where I can find mass graves containing the victims of state sponsered terrorism in the continental United States.

Tmbulbisburntout, unless you are willing to provide a reasonable argument in a coherent sentence (hopefully utilizing punctuation and periods), refrain from bombarding us with your crappy, juvenile conspiracy theories.

 

[muskrat89]

I can‘t remember - was there oil in Somalia?

 

[Paul F]

Originally posted by Another Recce Guy:
[qb] The bad guys in Afghanistan became their best interest after 9/11. I'm sure that if 9/11 hadn't happened, then they wouldn't give a rat's buttocks what happened in Afghanistan, either.
[/qb]

Actually, I would argue that. The US government reportedly was negotiating with the Taliban for them to expel Osama bin Laden from Afghanistan. Repordedly they asked the Taliban to expel him 30 times before 9/11 - 27 under the Clinton administration and 3 under the Bush administration.

 

[Slim]

Originally posted by muskrat89:
[qb] I can‘t remember - was there oil in Somalia? [/qb]

No... Somalia was about humanitarian aid, period.

No oil or other commodities that could be exported to pluck the country out of the crappy place it is now.

Just civil war, and it‘s all "whose got the guns".

Slim

 

[Paul F]

Originally posted by tmbluesbflat:
[qb] The US is about oil not about humanitarian etc. [/qb]

If the US is all about oil, why did they go half way around the world to get it in Iraq, spending billions on removing Saddam and even more money on rebuilding Iraq when millions of Americans didn‘t want the war in the first place? The USA could easily have gotten this oil they are "about" in Alaska for a cheaper price in terms of money, and human life.

 

[koalorka]

Infanteer, Iraq‘s WMD‘s were supplied by the US, France and Germany, there is no doubt in that. The US used Saddam as a tool to fight the fundamentalist revolution from spreading on to other middle-eastern countries without compromising the lives of americans. After the war Saddam was short on cash and suprisingly - crude oil (Iraq‘s key oil deposits around Basrah were bombed and destroyed by Iranians) so he invaded the helpless and wealthy Kuwait.


Somalia and Kosovo go to prove that with a responsible leader the US still can enforce peace and provide aid around the world.

 

[Infanteer]

Infanteer, Iraq‘s WMD‘s were supplied by the US, France and Germany, there is no doubt in that.

http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/iraq/cw/program.htm

I see that Iraq produced its own stocks. Originally it imported the chemicals, but big deal, I could go to Costco and get most of those things. Unless your going to offer positive proof that a Western country trucked in mustard gas, I still say your out to lunch.

Somalia and Kosovo go to prove that with a responsible leader the US still can enforce peace and provide aid around the world.

Hmmm...are you getting at Clinton? Remember, Bush Sr. sent the troops into Somalia...it was Clinton who pulled them out as a knee jerk reaction to losses sustained by Task Force Ranger. It is the same Clinton who responded to terrorist attacks on the US by firing a couple Tomahawk‘s into the middle of the Sudan.

Where‘s your hero now?

 

[tmbluesbflat]

what is not generally known it appears is that the largest proven oil reserves in the world is in an area just north of Iraq, the are is Known As the Caspian Basin. What the US knows is that their reserves in Alaska are running out, gone completely in perhaps 40 years but of diminishing volumes every year until nada! This is or should be general knowledge by every man or woman in our society. The war is and will always be the oil! Also what is general knowledge in most places in our society, is that the Bin Laden family have been financial supporters of the Bush family since or maybe even before the 70‘s, yes including
Osama!

 

[tmbluesbflat]

It is a shame to see people acting like a lynch mob, a very American trait by the way. I always thought Canadians were more inclined to follow the rule of law, it however appears that "Rambo" mentality rears it‘s stupid head all to often

 

[tmbluesbflat]

I must apologize to one contributer here, I realise that the concept of a compound, complex sentence, is perhaps beyond the ken of more simple folk, I will try to restrain myself in the future.

 

[nULL]

the war is over, politically. it‘s been done, no backing out now. why debate this? personal opinions on whether Joe XXX supported it are useless and irrelevant.

just my 2 pence