"Vibe" of CIS-White men [Road Split from: Sexual Misconduct in the CAF

[TacticalTea]

Oh, hi, CFRG.

Military sounding alarm over recruiting problems as Canadians steer clear

Recruiters are given targets to meet, with spots divvied up by trade, as well as minimum targets for female recruits and maximums for men.

In other words: Sorry, can't employ you; you're a man. Such a privilege to be a white man, innit?

How is this legal? Or morally defensible?

From the same article:

Still, fewer Canadians are opting for a military career and it is not fully clear why.
“I don't think we've got a good answer anywhere. I think there are so many factors and components and dimensions of the why,” [BGen] Brodie says.

Really, General? You haven't a clue? Then what in the hell are we paying you for? I'm not even offended as a member of the military here, but simply as a taxpayer.

 

[FSTO]

Oh, hi, CFRG.

Military sounding alarm over recruiting problems as Canadians steer clear

In other words: Sorry, can't employ you; you're a man. Such a privilege to be a white man, innit?

How is this legal? Or morally defensible?

From the same article:



Really, General? You haven't a clue? Then what in the hell are we paying you for? I'm not even offended as a member of the military here, but simply as a taxpayer.

Oh they know! Piss poor and old gear, major platforms so old they’re falling apart and then the poor leadership. The General just can’t say it out loud because someone senior might have their feelings hurt.

 

[QV]

The recruiting crisis is expected and deserved at this point. Good luck!

 

[daftandbarmy]

Oh, hi, CFRG.

Military sounding alarm over recruiting problems as Canadians steer clear

In other words: Sorry, can't employ you; you're a man. Such a privilege to be a white man, innit?

How is this legal? Or morally defensible?

From the same article:



Really, General? You haven't a clue? Then what in the hell are we paying you for? I'm not even offended as a member of the military here, but simply as a taxpayer.

It's telling that this comment reveals how little the recruiting system knows about their target audience: he mentions pension first and world travel last. These people are not Baby Boomers.

“We're selling the benefits of being in the Canadian Armed Forces,” he says. “The pension, the medical, the dental, the education piece, continuing education, as well as a pretty interesting career where you get to travel around the world, potentially, and get paid to do it.”

Military sounding alarm over recruiting problems as Canadians steer clear

Regardless, I'm still waiting for my bounty payment for steering at least four civilians into successful CAF careers, even though I'm retired now.

 

[Lumber]

The web is full of tripe written by people claiming to know about the experience of white men, or just white people in general, and how their lives are full of "privilege". I don't play their game. I call bullsh!t on projecting their imagination and neuroses as fact and on the idea that "privilege" is not earned. Doesn't sound as special if it's just an "ordinary people vibe" they give off, I suppose. If people who looked like me started misbehaving en masse and as a consequence I found myself singled out, I'd either tolerate it or change a bit. I certainly wouldn't don a disreputable uniform by choice and complain when people react badly to it, or nominate ordinary useful human behaviours for being somehow disreputable (the universe of "white-acting" bullsh!t).

I just re-read this. Are you claiming the opposite of what you are arguing against? I.e. Are you claiming that privilege doesn't exist unless it's earned? If that's what you're claiming, you are absolutely incorrect. Privilege of different sorts is most certainly inherited. Not all privilege, but some privilege, just like some privilege is earned. In the context of what we're talking about, men inherit the privilege of not running down the street without having to feel nervous or afraid if they see a man running towards them on the same side of the street. White people (in some areas) inherit the privilege of not having to feel afraid when they are pulled over for a minor traffic stop. White people (again, in some areas), inherit the right to not be watched with suspicion when they go in a store. Now, I keep saying "in some areas" because obviously, this isn't universal. A black person in Liberia probably enjoys the same privileges (compared to white people) as a white person enjoys in the US.

 

[Lumber]

Let’s not talk about abolishing an act that according to some Indigenous leaders keeps their people stuck on reservations that are so far from opportunity - it’s a travesty.

Trudeau Sr. and Chrestien tried abolishing that act. You know what kept it alive? The indigenous groups lobbied against it. While didn't like the position in places first nation sin Canada, without it they would just become regular Canadian citizens and members of each provinces, and therefore have even less "power" in Canada.

 

[OldSolduer]

Trudeau Sr. and Chrestien tried abolishing that act. You know what kept it alive? The indigenous groups lobbied against it. While didn't like the position in places first nation sin Canada, without it they would just become regular Canadian citizens and members of each provinces, and therefore have even less "power" in Canada.

I knew that. And some Indigenous leaders are calling for its abolishment.

 

[Lumber]

I knew that. And some Indigenous leaders are calling for its abolishment.

Yea, unless they come up with a concrete plan for what to do instead or in spite of the lack of formal legal agreement (which I haven't seen), then it's all hot air for their own personal benefit.

 

[Lumber]

With the broad brushes being painted around, the blame and responsibility for making amends seems most frequently, if not uniquely, on the privileged white (CIS either implied
Or explicitly ) male grouping.

My question…

…aims to address the broad brush of privileged (which in itself, is a sweeping stereotype) white male, by posing a question that is intended to encourage thought based not on a pre-disposed judgement based on colour and gender, but acts of any person towards another. Perhaps the “what is done about bad things happening in a mode that doesn’t fit the broad brush’s assumed mode?” Is the outlier data point to be considered ‘the cost of improvement for the whole?’

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and buy your highlighted explanation, but dragging trans-people into this discussion seemingly out of nowhere was probably not the best, nor necessary, tact.

 

[Brad Sallows]

In the first place, the liberty to do ordinary things without collapsing into a pile of twitching nerves is not "privilege". But whatever it is, it took something to get to this point and it takes something to maintain it.

 

[Good2Golf]

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and buy your highlighted explanation, but dragging trans-people into this discussion seemingly out of nowhere was probably not the best, nor necessary, tact.

That’s big of you. What if my questioning was based on my own experience? Who are you to judge?

 

[Lumber]

In the first place, the liberty to do ordinary things without collapsing into a pile of twitching nerves is not "privilege". But whatever it is, it took something to get to this point and it takes something to maintain it.

If we had a completely homogenous society and everyone got along and treated each other fairly, then your ability to go into a store without worrying about the owner or security following you around because they assumed you might steal would not be a privilege.

However, if suddenly in this hypothetical society a bunch of immigrants who were different somehow was to show up and begin living there, and suddenly store keepers started following them around stores to the point that these immigrants got anxiety just from going into a store, then your ability to not worry about being followed would have become a privilege.

Privilege: "a special right, advantage, or immunity granted or available only to a particular person or group."

 

[Lumber]

That’s big of you. What if my questioning was based on my own experience? Who are you to judge?

We all have our own experiences, and those experiences are all completely valid. However, in the context of this discussion, brining up trans people, and specifically trans people committing sexual assault against non-trans people, seemed to come out of nowhere. It'd be like if we were in the Ukraine thread discussing whether or not the Ukrainians really were being racist/discriminatory toward black students trying to flee Ukraine at the start of the war, and someone piped up and suddenly made a post saying "Well what about the murder of white farmers by black people in South Africa! Where's their Justice!". It's like, ok, sure, that's wrong too, but why the hell are you bringing it up here? "Oh ,well, I just wanted to bring to light the fact that there's injustice and crime against and between people of all different types." Ok, cool, if you say so.

 

[Kat Stevens]

We all have our own experiences, and those experiences are all completely valid. However, in the context of this discussion, brining up trans people, and specifically trans people committing sexual assault against non-trans people, seemed to come out of nowhere. It'd be like if we were in the Ukraine thread discussing whether or not the Ukrainians really were being racist/discriminatory toward black students trying to flee Ukraine at the start of the war, and someone piped up and suddenly made a post saying "Well what about the murder of white farmers by black people in South Africa! Where's their Justice!". It's like, ok, sure, that's wrong too, but why the hell are you bringing it up here? "Oh ,well, I just wanted to bring to light the fact that there's injustice and crime against and between people of all different types." Ok, cool, if you say so.

What, are you new around here or something? Yes, thread tangents are terrible. Why, they lead to thread splits and everything.

 

[Halifax Tar]

I just re-read this. Are you claiming the opposite of what you are arguing against? I.e. Are you claiming that privilege doesn't exist unless it's earned? If that's what you're claiming, you are absolutely incorrect. Privilege of different sorts is most certainly inherited. Not all privilege, but some privilege, just like some privilege is earned. In the context of what we're talking about, men inherit the privilege of not running down the street without having to feel nervous or afraid if they see a man running towards them on the same side of the street. White people (in some areas) inherit the privilege of not having to feel afraid when they are pulled over for a minor traffic stop. White people (again, in some areas), inherit the right to not be watched with suspicion when they go in a store. Now, I keep saying "in some areas" because obviously, this isn't universal. A black person in Liberia probably enjoys the same privileges (compared to white people) as a white person enjoys in the US.

To me its the term privilege. It has a pejorative tone to it or is being used with one by many. I hate that term in these discussions.

Should women be able to run down a dark street at night and not worry what may happen ? Absolutely, that should go without saying. The problem is there is a segment of our society that are wolves and they will prey on vulnerable people or people in vulnerable positions. What we should be doing is dealing with them swiftly and violently and making examples so people can know if you prey on others your place in this society will be no more.

No one should fear being pulled over by the police. And the police also shouldn't fear pulling people over. This has everything to with society's failing relationship with with its police forces, and the blame goes both ways pretty equally.

 

[OldSolduer]

To me its the term privilege. It has a pejorative tone to it or is being used with one by many. I hate that term in these discussions.

Should women be able to run down a dark street at night and not worry what may happen ? Absolutely, that should go without saying. The problem is there is a segment of our society that are wolves and they will prey on vulnerable people or people in vulnerable positions. What we should be doing is dealing with them swiftly and violently and making examples so people can know if you prey on others your place in this society will be no more.

No one should fear being pulled over by the police. And the police also shouldn't fear pulling people over. This has everything to with society's failing relationship with with its police forces, and the blame goes both ways pretty equally.

I fully agree with you on this. So lets get the predators off the street.

As for the term "privilege" it seems to be used these days as a form of insult - similar to being called a "Nazi" or "racist".

 

[Lumber]

This has everything to with society's failing relationship with with its police forces, and the blame goes both ways pretty equally.

I'm not saying whether I agree or disagree with this statement, but holy hole in a doughnut Batman, that's a bold statement to make considering how much fervor there is in society claiming it is entirely the police's fault. That's #CancelHalifaxTar level of going against the accepted narrative, so, kudos to you for your courage.

What, are you new around here or something? Yes, thread tangents are terrible. Why, they lead to thread splits and everything.

New? Check my profile; I've been a member only 2 years less than you. Also, there's tangents that flow naturally from the core discussion, and then there's curve balls that come out of nowhere. The brining-up of sexual assaults committed by trans people I would consider the latter.

 

[Jarnhamar]

The brining-up of sexual assaults committed by trans people I would consider the latter.

IMO it's similar to bringing up white males specifically when speaking about privilage in a conversation about sexual assault where race wasn't being discussed.

 

[Good2Golf]

We all have our own experiences, and those experiences are all completely valid. However, in the context of this discussion, brining up trans people, and specifically trans people committing sexual assault against non-trans people, seemed to come out of nowhere. It'd be like if we were in the Ukraine thread discussing whether or not the Ukrainians really were being racist/discriminatory toward black students trying to flee Ukraine at the start of the war, and someone piped up and suddenly made a post saying "Well what about the murder of white farmers by black people in South Africa! Where's their Justice!".

Does it? You were the one that brought white male privilege vibe into the thread, with, and feel free to correct me, the implication that there was an overwhelming input from privileged white males to suppress the validity of the angst felt by women regarding the plight of sexual assault.

I can see no example in this entire thread where your implication was validated by specific members (privileged white males or otherwise).

I will restate, that I do believe that in the majority of situations related to sexual assault, that women generally are the ones to near the brunt of systemic biases, and that unfortunately that directly impacts their willingness to report and to proceed further in support of prosecution even if they have reported a sexual assault.

That said, my example and questions were related to the very valid case of how to treat situation that contradict a more recently contrived concept of white male privilege. Something that few people of any group seem to put any thought or consideration into.

For the record, my questions were personally-based. They were not hypothetical. I’ll let that sink in for you.

It's like, ok, sure, that's wrong too, but why the hell are you bringing it up here? "Oh ,well, I just wanted to bring to light the fact that there's injustice and crime against and between people of all different types." Ok, cool, if you say so.

Not cool. Wasn’t cool. Never will be cool. Never should be considered an invalid concern just because a victim belongs to a specific, trendy blanket group.

G2G

Edit: p.s. non-CIS does not uniquely equate to trans-gender

 

[Lumber]

IMO it's similar to bringing up white males specifically when speaking about privilage in a conversation about sexual assault where race wasn't being discussed.

Ouuu touché.