US versus NATO

[Altair]

:rofl: that's near as hilarious trudeau's eulogy to Castro or his praise of dictatorships, including China.

Ah China. Yes.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-03-04/trump-tells-donors-china-s-xi-president-for-life-cnn-says

“Don’t forget China’s great and Xi is a great gentleman. He’s now president for life,” Trump told Republican backers. The crowd erupted in laughter in response to the remarks made Saturday at his Mar-a-Lago estate.

“And look, he was able to do that,” Trump said. “I think it’s great. Maybe we’ll give that a shot some day,” he said, prompting more laughter. The White House didn’t immediately respond to requests for comment.

North American leaders sure do have weird views on China.

Now, a question for you. Are both the Canadian PMs comments on China and the American Presidents comment on China unacceptable, or is it simply the Canadian PMs comments that are to be criticized?

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Ah China. Yes.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-03-04/trump-tells-donors-china-s-xi-president-for-life-cnn-says
North American leaders sure do have weird views on China.

Now, a question for you. Are both the Canadian PMs comments on China and the American Presidents comment on China unacceptable, or is it simply the Canadian PMs comments that are to be criticized?

Are you comparing Trumps gamesmanship and ego stroking with our great leader's core beliefs and morality?

If so, yup, Trump gets a buy from me.

 

[tomahawk6]

Maybe Trudeau wants to be PM for life,  ;D

 

[Altair]

https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/16/europe/heiko-maas-trump-comments-intl/index.html

Germany's foreign minister said Monday that the European Union could "no longer completely rely on the White House," echoing Chancellor Angela Merkel's veiled criticism of US President Donald Trump a year ago and amplifying a war of words between the two allies.

Heiko Maas' comments came a few hours after Trump described the European Union as a "foe" that has "taken advantage" of the US over trade and NATO, and on the same day as a bilateral summit between Trump and Russian President Vladimir Putin.
In an interview with the Funke media group, the Social Democrat politician said the US President's statement on the EU "unfortunately shows once again how wide the political Atlantic has become since Donald Trump has been in office."
The EU's relationship with the US must change if it is to continue, Maas said, insisting that this could be achieved only with a "self-confident and sovereign Europe."

Influence fading fast. Rather than push Europe to do what the USA wants, he's only pushing the EU away from the US to the point where it will simply only do what it wants.

But at least the Russian USA relationship is on the mend. Definitely hitching the American cart to the right horse there.

 

[Altair]

Are you comparing Trumps gamesmanship and ego stroking with our great leader's core beliefs and morality?

If so, yup, Trump gets a buy from me.

The American President has a long history of sugaring up for brutal dictators and leaders

Russian President Vladimir Putin
What Trump said about him: “If he says great things about me, I’m going to say great things about him. I’ve already said, he is really very much of a leader. I mean, you can say, ‘Oh, isn’t that a terrible thing’—the man has very strong control over a country. Now, it’s a very different system, and I don’t happen to like the system. But certainly, in that system, he’s been a leader, far more than our president has been a leader.”

Philippines President Rodrigo Duterte
What Trump said about him: “I just wanted to congratulate you because I am hearing of the unbelievable job on the drug problem.”

Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan
What Trump said about him: “Frankly, he’s getting very high marks. He’s also been working with the United States. We have a great friendship and the countries—I think we’re right now as close as we’ve ever been … a lot of that has to do with a personal relationship.”

Egyptian President Abdel Fattah el-Sisi
What Trump said about him: “We agree on so many things. I just want to let everybody know in case there was any doubt that we are very much behind President el-Sisi. He’s done a fantastic job in a very difficult situation. We are very much behind Egypt and the people of Egypt. The United States has, believe me, backing, and we have strong backing.”

He has praised Iraq’s Saddam Hussein (while also criticizing him as “a bad guy”) for killing terrorists. “He did that so good,” Trump said in July 2016. “They didn’t read them the rights. They didn’t talk. They were terrorists. Over.”

Trump also said in 2016 that Libya would be better off “if [Moammar] Gaddafi were in charge right now.”

He once tweeted a quote from Benito Mussolini, the Italian fascist leader, and later defended the tweet, saying: “Mussolini was Mussolini ... It’s a very good quote. It’s a very interesting quote... what difference does it make whether it’s Mussolini or somebody else?”

Trump even said China’s brutal crackdown on protesters in Tiananmen Square in 1989 “shows you the power of strength,” contrasting the Communist Party’s action with the United States, which he said “is right now perceived as weak.” Trump made those comments in 1990. When asked about the remarks during the presidential debate in 2016, Trump defended himself and appeared to take the Chinese Communist Party’s view of the events at Tiananmen. He dismissed the deadly military response as a “riot.”

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2018/03/trump-xi-jinping-dictators/554810/

You telling me that isn't part of his core beliefs, but it is a part of Trudeaus?

Again, if the situation was flipped, and Trudeau said any of the above, you would not be forgiving.

But alas, I don't believe you can say a bad world about the american president anymore than the American president can say a bad word about Putin.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Glad we finally got here. Now I can quit hitting the button to read your responses.
Cheers

 

[Altair]

Glad we finally got here. Now I can quit hitting the button to read your responses.
Cheers

your loss.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Not really. I respect your stance, I just don't agree. I just don't want to fence to inevitable stalemate of agreeing to disagree. You do great at getting me to respond so you can try further your stance. I just don't have time to keep tilting at windmills. So to stop answering you and going in circles, I just don't read a lot of your stuff. Not personal, just economical for me. If I was going to be childish, i could've gone all caps and told you to stuff yourself and your idiot ideas I'm putting you on ignore, but thats not why i want to leave your conversation. Your views, while respected, dont coincide with mine and we've spent enough time sparring to no legitimate end.....on this subject anyway. I was simply saying you should expect a lot less dancing with me is all. Sorry if you're offended by my lack of participation.

 

[Altair]

https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/16/politics/congress-reaction-trump-putin-comments/index.html

House Speaker Paul Ryan contradicted several comments Trump made during his Helsinki news conference, most notably backing the US intelligence community assessment that Russia meddled with the US 2016 presidential election.
"There is no question that Russia interfered in our election and continues attempts to undermine democracy here and around the world," said Ryan, a Republican from Wisconsin, in a statement. "That is not just the finding of the American intelligence community but also the House Committee on Intelligence."

Ryan continued, "The president must appreciate that Russia is not our ally. There is no moral equivalence between the United States and Russia, which remains hostile to our most basic values and ideals. The United States must be focused on holding Russia accountable and putting an end to its vile attacks on democracy."

Sen. John McCain, an Arizona Republican who has consistently criticized the President, said Trump's comments were "one of the most disgraceful performances by an American president in memory."

Rep. Will Hurd, a Texas Republican and former undercover CIA officer, expressed shock at Trump's attitude towards Putin and Russia.
"I've seen the Russian intelligence manipulate many people many people in my career, and I never would have thought the US President would be one of them," Hurd said on CNN's "The Lead with Jake Tapper."

I do have some hope that the GOP has some semblance of reality. Now hopefully they act on it.

 

[Remius]

Even Newt Gingrich of all people are saying this was the biggest mistake of his presidency...

 

[Altair]

Even Newt Gingrich of all people are saying this was the biggest mistake of his presidency...

Kind of what happens when the one sides with Putin over the FBI.

 

[TheHead]

After the disaster that is Helsinki the Trumpgret is out in full force. 

 

[Altair]

After the disaster that is Helsinki the Trumpgret is out in full force. 

You know it's bad when you lose fox news.

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2018/07/16/putin-eats-trumps-lunch-in-helsinki-this-is-no-way-to-win-against-russia.html

Putin eats Trump's lunch in Helsinki -- This is no way to win against Russia

 

[Loachman]

Kind of what happens when the one sides with Putin over the FBI.

The same FBI that was and is protecting Hillary?

I'd have a little more respect to an honest potential enemy than a lying, backstabbing "friend" as well.

I am not so much concerned with President Trump's words (and even less so with many other people's) as I am with results. Some "friends" need to hear blunt and unpleasant truths at times, and some foes can respond to nice words.

Lessening of tensions between opposing nations is generally seen as a Good Thing. Boosting NATO's capabilities via a little blunt prodding vice more "diplomatic" yet ineffectual methods is not bad.

I'll wait and see what actually happens.

Again, underestimating this President does not usually work out well for his opponents.

 

[Brad Sallows]

>Amazingly, the US president can go and say that, and at this point, nobody blinks an eye.

Very low expectations.  Surely the bar for Trudeau should not be set that low?

Impossible to guess what Trump believes he is doing.  Maybe a ham-fisted attempt at having more flexibility.

It occurred to me that revisiting EU and NATO is worthwhile.  With the EU under a bit of economic pressure this past decade, pundits emitted a sporadic stream of articles crediting the EU with keeping the peace, and [claiming] that Europe risks backsliding into war without it.  NATO apparently isn't really needed, much.

 

[Altair]

The same FBI that was and is protecting Hillary?

I'd have a little more respect to an honest potential enemy than a lying, backstabbing "friend" as well.

I am not so much concerned with President Trump's words (and even less so with many other people's) as I am with results. Some "friends" need to hear blunt and unpleasant truths at times, and some foes can respond to nice words.

Lessening of tensions between opposing nations is generally seen as a Good Thing. Boosting NATO's capabilities via a little blunt prodding vice more "diplomatic" yet ineffectual methods is not bad.

I'll wait and see what actually happens.

Again, underestimating this President does not usually work out well for his opponents.

What world do you live in where Putin is a honest potential enemy?

 

[PPCLI Guy]

The same FBI that was and is protecting Hillary?

I'd have a little more respect to an honest potential enemy than a lying, backstabbing "friend" as well.

I am not so much concerned with President Trump's words (and even less so with many other people's) as I am with results. Some "friends" need to hear blunt and unpleasant truths at times, and some foes can respond to nice words.

Lessening of tensions between opposing nations is generally seen as a Good Thing. Boosting NATO's capabilities via a little blunt prodding vice more "diplomatic" yet ineffectual methods is not bad.

I'll wait and see what actually happens.

Again, underestimating this President does not usually work out well for his opponents.

I deleted all of my comments.  I have nothing to say.  I am frankly stumped by the latitude that is offered to this man by otherwise functioning people.

 

[Remius]

I deleted all of my comments.  I have nothing to say.  I am frankly stumped by the latitude that is offered to this man by otherwise functioning people.

Why? Trump got NK to denuclearize and return the bodies of missing US servicemen.  Oh wait.  None of that seems to have happened. 

Now it seems Putin can also do whatever he wants.

U.S. credibility just took a massive nose dive.

 

[Loachman]

What world do you live in where Putin is a honest potential enemy?

Is he pretending to be otherwise?

Would anybody believe him were he to?

He is putting the interests of his nation ahead, as he should.

The FBI, on the other hand - or at least senior members thereof - put a political candidate ahead of their nation.

 

[Altair]

Why? Trump got NK to denuclearize and return the bodies of missing US servicemen.  Oh wait.  None of that seems to have happened. 

Now it seems Putin can also do whatever he wants.

U.S. credibility just took a massive nose dive.

All of those Korean war vets parents that begged him to bring the bodies home must be crushed. The thousands of them.
The youngest of them being a spry 100 years old... Those thousands of 100 year old people on the campaign trail....


Sigh...