• Thanks for stopping by. Logging in to a registered account will remove all generic ads. Please reach out with any questions or concerns.

Updating RCMP ‘militaristic’ training is long overdue, experts say

How does a beat cop assist with charging offenders and dealing with a backlog of 911 calls?
Here in Edmonton we have BEAT teams for high density areas popular for night life, tourists, etc

They actually take a big weight off of the 911 calls in the areas where they are - and every restaurant manager, pub/bar manager, security guard, bouncer, etc knows them on a first name basis


Where I currently moonlight as a bouncer on the weekends now, they have 3 or 4 teams of 2-3 officers, walking up and down Whyte Ave. They tend to be fairly high vis (as much as a black municipal police uniform can be) with POLICE across their back in reflective lettering, the proper red stripe down the pants, peaked cap, etc

They chat with people, staff, randomly go into high traffic spots (nightclubs) and do a presence patrol (aka walk around to let people know they are around) etc

There are police vehicles that work their way up & down the street also, or just park off the street for when the foot patrol requires additional bodies or is dealing with something



So far it’s worked great. Everybody who works on Whyte Ave on the weekends are familiar with the officers, and they are familiar with us also. Always big smiles & handshakes going around.

If someone calls 911 for something - boom, they are there and it’s taken off the screens. Fight breaks out? The police are usually on it within 30-45 seconds or so.

And it’s drastically reduced the number of drunk drivers on the road (originating from Whyte Ave) as people are too scared to even bother trying when there is literally a police unit within eyesight




Honestly depending on the various factors at play, the BEAT teams do work extremely well.
 
In Las Vegas the cops walk the strip in threes the last time I was there. All turned out like they were in the USMC. Impressive and all fit.
 
I’m not familiar with a force in Canada with bloused boots on patrol unless they are ERT variations. And even them- there are very few bloused boots.
Welcome to the OPP. Certain specialties are authorized to wear dark blue 'tactical' (I don't know what it is actually called). Off the top of my head, In-Service Training, Forensic Ident, Underwater Search and Recovery, and Emergency Response Teams (one step down from tactical). I've never understood the logic of some approvals. Some regular patrol members still lobby for tactical gear because, you know, it's a jungle out there.

A today shot in a local paper. I believe these are Underwater Search and Recovery team members opp orillia.jpg(I believe the member on the right is Canine).
 
So who are these so called "experts".

We listened to "experts" on mental health, followed their recommendations and now we have a mentally ill offenders in society - free as a bird and doing as they please.
 
Welcome to the OPP. Certain specialties are authorized to wear dark blue 'tactical' (I don't know what it is actually called). Off the top of my head, In-Service Training, Forensic Ident, Underwater Search and Recovery, and Emergency Response Teams (one step down from tactical). I've never understood the logic of some approvals. Some regular patrol members still lobby for tactical gear because, you know, it's a jungle out there.

A today shot in a local paper. I believe these are Underwater Search and Recovery team members View attachment 77430(I believe the member on the right is Canine).
Working in the brush the special duty guys blouse them to keep ticks and bugs out. It makes sense. I’ve done it in the woods as well. I should have been more clear - but I did say “on patrol”- I am surprised to see the amount of blousing in that photo. Training guys doing that gets a massive eye roll from me.

The patrol guys are always asking. You’re right. It’s a constant battle. Finding the sweet spot for comfort and utility and “professional”. I do find it interesting, and it’s not mutually exclusive, that people want cops simultaneously looking like they “mean business” and being approachable and connecting with the community. They aren’t exclusive but they are competing.

spencer100 is saying officers patrolling the streets downtown have bloused boots.


They actually take a big weight off of the 911 calls in the areas where they are - and every restaurant manager, pub/bar manager, security guard, bouncer, etc knows them on a first name basis


Where I currently moonlight as a bouncer on the weekends now, they have 3 or 4 teams of 2-3 officers, walking up and down Whyte Ave. They tend to be fairly high vis (as much as a black municipal police uniform can be) with POLICE across their back in reflective lettering, the proper red stripe down the pants, peaked cap, etc

They chat with people, staff, randomly go into high traffic spots (nightclubs) and do a presence patrol (aka walk around to let people know they are around) etc

There are police vehicles that work their way up & down the street also, or just park off the street for when the foot patrol requires additional bodies or is dealing with something



So far it’s worked great. Everybody who works on Whyte Ave on the weekends are familiar with the officers, and they are familiar with us also. Always big smiles & handshakes going around.

If someone calls 911 for something - boom, they are there and it’s taken off the screens. Fight breaks out? The police are usually on it within 30-45 seconds or so.

And it’s drastically reduced the number of drunk drivers on the road (originating from Whyte Ave) as people are too scared to even bother trying when there is literally a police unit within eyesight




Honestly depending on the various factors at play, the BEAT teams do work extremely well.
I do know that in some districts in Edmonton when officers sign on they have two scrolling pages of calls waiting in their queue.

Youre right that is reduces nuisance calls in an area like whyte ave. But it’s less proven to lower your overall volume- as it tends to push your vegetables around your plate.

They are certainly valuable in the context you’re talking about.

I deploy(deployed) foot patrols anywhere we had crowds. I didn’t consider it “beat” policing. But I suppose it is.

You’re right!

I have a hard time with stacked emergency calls and folks wandering around on foot. But it’s not as simple as chasing calls all over their zones and districts.

There is an annoying thing that happens with community business groups where they always want foot patrols in their area- rightfully and reasonably- but at the cost of operational police from other areas. The issue is that the beat idea takes MORE cops not less or the same.

There are ways to fund and saturate cops in areas like that- but it’s not as simple as “this cop now walks this street”.

This has come up in planning meetings quite often. It’s usually left to the way side once people see how many more cops they’d need to hire.

That’s also the reason it’s targeted to areas that benefit from it rather than it being the primary way to deploy officers.

I suppose my reaction was to the ease of the suggestion of throwing more 100 thousand dollar officers, that we can’t hire, to walk around neighbour hoods and streets.

Then there is the issue that Toronto ran into where when they saturated neighbourhoods, including community “beat” officers, by calls for service and crime rates they were blasted for profiling.
 
Last edited:
I wish I would see more police in my daily business. They seem to be few and far between now.

I live in a struggling rough neighborhood, and I might see the police 6 times a year, unless it's me calling them on my wing nut of a neighbor.
 
Then there is the issue that Toronto ran into where when they saturated neighbourhoods, including community “beat” officers, by calls for service and crime rates they were blasted for profiling.

Readers who follow federal politics may have heard of this man.

Regarding community "profiling" in Toronto,

Fantino, then head of 31 Division, told North York's committee on community, race and ethnic relations that, while blacks made up 6 per cent of the Jane-Finch population, they accounted for 82 per cent of robberies and muggings, 55 per cent of purse-snatchings and 51 per cent of drug offences in the previous year.

Regarding uniform colours. During my time, we wore navy blue shirt, pants and jacket / parka.

After I retired, thankfully, they switched to "chartreuse" ( Not the lovely drink, the colour. ) with florescent tape.
Sort of a piss yellow-puke green. < vomit emoji
 
The patrol guys are always asking. You’re right. It’s a constant battle. Finding the sweet spot for comfort and utility and “professional”. I do find it interesting, and it’s not mutually exclusive, that people want cops simultaneously looking like they “mean business” and being approachable and connecting with the community. They aren’t exclusive but they are competing.

Well, there was this experiment in the late 1960s:


And a bit of a summary on style and colour studies:


Not that long ago, Toronto PS sparked controversy when they rolled out cruiser markings in shades of grey. "Too agressive!"
 
Not that long ago, Toronto PS sparked controversy when they rolled out cruiser markings in shades of grey. "Too agressive!"

I remember when Metro Police rode in school-bus yellow cars "with a cherry on top". No siren.

Even in summer, long-sleeve grey shirts, necktie and Sam-Brown. I think they had to keep their hats on in the car. With no A/C.

What I liked about the LAPD uniform was no shoulder crests. No need for them. You knew who they were.

Their car was a character in itself.

This black and white patrol car has an overhead valve V8 engine. It develops 325 horsepower at 4800 RPM's. It accelerates from 0 to 60 in seven seconds; it has a top speed of 120 miles an hour. It's equipped with a multi channeled DFE radio and an electronic siren capable of admitting three variables, wail, yelp, and alert. It also serves as an outside radio speaker and public address system. The automobile has two shotgun racks, one attached to the bottom portion of the front seat, one in the vehicle trunk. Attached to the middle of the dash, illuminated by a single bulb is a hot sheet desk. Fastened to which you will always make sure is the latest one off the teletype before you ever roll.

Pete Malloy:
It's your life insurance and mine. You take care of it and it'll take care of you.

Jim Reed:
Yes sir. You want me to drive? :ROFLMAO:

Pic is for lenaitch. I'm sure it will bring back memories.
 

Attachments

  • OPP-cars-in-the-snow.jpg
    OPP-cars-in-the-snow.jpg
    88.1 KB · Views: 7
  • adam.jpg
    adam.jpg
    24.8 KB · Views: 6

Menlo park for anyone interested.

That police one article mentions the prison interviews where the suspect identified a wrinkly uniform as a reason they thought they could overpower a police officer- that study has been basically thrown out because there are significant issues with it. Not that then article is bad. I’d agree with most everything in it

Tactical cops should look like tactical cops- it’s a uniform of utility if they want dark colours or green or whatever. Fine. Everyday Cops should look like cops- walking around community policing cops should look sharp, same with at court.

Cops attending calls should look functional- the need to carry gear around everywhere and have access to it means they looks militarized….because military uniforms and equipment are utility based.

Why has the drift for EMS been the same? Because it’s useful.
 
In Las Vegas the cops walk the strip in threes the last time I was there. All turned out like they were in the USMC. Impressive and all fit.
Metro still does that. The very volume of traffic (both foot and vehicle) requires them to have a large number of officers out walking the strip.

Off the strip it’s car crews and little interaction.

Their SWAT is entirely different with BearCats and lots of rifles. I did the Vegas Intermediate SWAT course around 10 years ago and did a few shift with one of the teams. Ugly city when you get off the strip, but not nearly as bad as LA, I did 3 days and 2 night with LADP and knew I never wanted to be a Policeman there.

New York City still has officers walking a beat. They walk the streets and go into the apartments - I have a buddy there and while it can be really sketchy, they are trying to truly community police in most of the neighborhoods.


Down here, most departments now have take home cars. With the idea that it puts LE back into the community, of course it only works if the members make an effort to be part of the community, and the community themselves. Some areas do well, and some not so much.
 
I remember when Metro Police rode in school-bus yellow cars "with a cherry on top". No siren.

Even in summer, long-sleeve grey shirts, necktie and Sam-Brown. I think they had to keep their hats on in the car. With no A/C.

What I liked about the LAPD uniform was no shoulder crests. No need for them. You knew who they were.

Their car was a character in itself.
Same when I joined. The only a/c was the Canine station wagons. If you were really tall, you could get a Superintendent's waiver for the hat while driving.

The 'municipal yellow' was withdrawn because of its lead content; long before 'livery marketing' became a thing.

Pic is for lenaitch. I'm sure it will bring back memories.

Jeez, I'm not that old . . .

. . . but when I joined we didn't need badge numbers. We both knew each other. 😁
 
Down here, most departments now have take home cars.

Our management called them "cottage cars."

Some of the most interesting urban legends involved the cottage cars, and the antics and
escapades they were involved in. The stories, true or not, were legendary.

They were completely snow white, completely unmarked, Ford Crown Victoria's with the Police Interceptor package. They didn't have roof racks, or anything conspicuous like that. Instead they had red "Kojack" lights in the side mirrors.

Another funny story was we had a carpenter. They gave him a retired from operations, but not yet ready for auction, unmarked ambulance to carry his tools around .They forgot to disconnect the lights and siren. The police followed him around and wrote him up a stack of tickets for running red lights etc.

Looked very bad on his supervisor too, for letting him have it in the first place.

The only a/c was the Canine station wagons.

We had A/C in the ambulance, but only because of the patients.

I remember a supervisor threatening to write me up while on probation after pulling out a subway jumper on a fiercely hot summer afternoon for not wearing my tie.

Fortunately, we only had to wear neck ties my first summer on the dept.
After that, short sleeves with open collar.

Now, they wear T-shirts. Life is funny.

Jeez, I'm not that old . . .

Sorry. Watched too many eps of "Highway Patrol."
 
You also start running into health and safety issues with uniforms too. Cops have the right to health and safety like every other worker. The consequence being the uniforms which look least aggressive also tend to be the least protective (brighter colours, body armour, etc.).

I know my city basically doesn’t have street walking cops. There is too few cops that are constantly responding to calls. I would also say they don’t own the streets either, based off the tent the addicts and thugs put beside the road on a main street and were literally doing meth in public (it was like that for a month as well) tells me a lot about who was actually in control.
 
Down here, most departments now have take home cars. With the idea that it puts LE back into the community, of course it only works if the members make an effort to be part of the community, and the community themselves. Some areas do well, and some not so much.

That would be interesting here as a large amount of City Officers live in the county policed by the OPP. The taxes are cheaper in the County. Lol
 
You also start running into health and safety issues with uniforms too. Cops have the right to health and safety like every other worker.
That's how we eventually got a/c. It's not that senior command was against it but government fleet rules forbade such frippery and refused to budge. The Association funded an OHAS study that found with the windows up in the summer the interior of the vehicle exceeded MoL temperature limits and, with the windows down, exceeded the noise limits.
 
Back
Top