Updated Army Service Dress project

[dimsum]

At least the buckle isn't plastic.

 

[PrairieFella]

Yes. It is obvious we design our uniforms for the wearers and not to communicate to observers. Small Canadian military egos would rather be assumed British than confused for a member of another unit.


Most of the time we wear any uniform is inside Canada, because that is where we spend most our time. As someone who has worn service dress in NATO & ABCANZ settings, I can attest that the uniform matters … particularly if part of the reason the govt sent you is so Canada can be observed contributing despite our low defence spending.

A uniform doesn’t necessarily need to say “Canada”, but if you wear the British uniform with British rank insignia then you will be assumed as British. In fact, wearing a distinct national uniform is more important than the sewn on national flashes. Nobody confuses a German or American or Canadian for any other nation, but even the Brits cannot distinguish the Australians from the New Zealanders while the Americans confuse all three … and this persists even after the introductions.


The USMC uniform is sufficiently distinct in its combination of cut, colour, and insignia from the British. It is not trying for that Commonwealth look. The two do not get confused in an international setting. The commonwealth uniforms do.


There were complaints to that effect when the US Army wore the green uniform, and we are not stuck in some binary choice between an American vs British uniforms. We can do our own thing.

It's ironic you use the USMC as your example, their most iconic uniform, the Blues, are basically ripped off the Royal Marines haha.

If Americans are mixing up the tweed British, khaki Australians with their iconic digger hats and the New Zealanders who also say "New Zealand" on the shoulder, that's more a testament of their ignorance, not the differentiation of uniforms. I'm all for paying homage the times the Canadian Army was feared by our enemies and was kicking ass globally.

 

[MacNav63]

Maybe we need to stop being so self conscious and stop calling everything "Canadian"... Does CANSOFCOM really need the CAN in front? Does CJOC really need the C? How about CSOR?

We throw Canada, or Canadian in front of everything... Nations that are confident of their national identity don't.

Next you'll be suggesting we take the Canada wordmark off of all our aircraft that already have the RCAF roundel on them...heresy. The Federal Identity Program team is watching...

 

[daftandbarmy]

The plan is for officers and CWOs to wear a "Sam Browne" belt.

Good luck with all the polishing, chaps!

And wait until the 'Gender informed' critiques come out

 

[Colin Parkinson]

I will be honest, while I like the uniform, I am not a fan of the pips. I prefer the bars, easier to see and figure what is what and if you should go hide.

 

[FJAG]

I will be honest, while I like the uniform, I am not a fan of the pips. I prefer the bars, easier to see and figure what is what and if you should go hide.

I only wore pips for a short year before being converted to the rings. IMHO, returning to pips and crowns was a positive step in my eyes.

It seems that after fifty years, I still carry massive resentment to unification.

 

[Furniture]

I will be honest, while I like the uniform, I am not a fan of the pips. I prefer the bars, easier to see and figure what is what and if you should go hide.

They are really easy to figure out in CADPAT. If they have "dots" of any kind they are an officer, if they have a lot of white, they are a Snr NCM. I met the Army Sgt Major this morning in the canteen, and a MGen the day before in the same spot. It was not hard for even a sailor to tell who was who.

 

[Harris]

Good luck with all the polishing, chaps!

And wait until the 'Gender informed' critiques come out

So will the belt be made of actual leather, or be vegan friendly? Believe it or not serious question based on what I've seen lately around leather products.

 

[Furniture]

So will the belt be made of actual leather, or be vegan friendly? Believe it or not serious question based on what I've seen lately around leather products.

My understanding is that we were switching back to leather for all of that stuff, and away from the plastic alternatives.

 

[dapaterson]

They are really easy to figure out in CADPAT. If they have "dots" of any kind they are an officer, if they have a lot of white, they are a Snr NCM. I met the Army Sgt Major this morning in the canteen, and a MGen the day before in the same spot. It was not hard for even a sailor to tell who was who.

If they have only a crown, they are either a Warrant Officer or, if a baby crown, are someone who requires supervision by a Warrant Officer.

 

[daftandbarmy]

My understanding is that we were switching back to leather for all of that stuff, and away from the plastic alternatives.

Hopefully, riding boots will come back into fashion for Staff Officers too

 

[dapaterson]

If your Army doesn't have fires, doesn't have AD, lacks sufficient tanks for a single battalion/regiment, lacks EW and comms, and lacks lift and recovery capabilities, I guess new dress uniforms are a reasonable substitute.

 

[Furniture]

If your Army doesn't have fires, doesn't have AD, lacks sufficient tanks for a single battalion/regiment, lacks EW and comms, and lacks lift and recovery capabilities, I guess new dress uniforms are a reasonable substitute.

The new uniforms are from necessity, not fashion. The supplier told the CA that they can't get more of the material used to make the current uniform, so they had to come up with something else. If you need to make a choice, it makes sense to go back to the classics, rather than go full USSF...

 

[dangerboy]

They are also using this as an opportunity to make the uniforms more inclusive by fixing the sizing/fit of the uniforms.

 

[PuckChaser]

Can we have sizing that isn't designed to fit Minecraft characters? New CADPAT MT sizing is a good start but the CAF assumes that to have a 16" collar you must have Randy's gut from Trailer Park Boys.

 

[dapaterson]

I have not looked into this for many years, but as I recall the sizings sent to industry are based on 1960s data... So there may be some discrepancies between what we ask for vs what we actually have.

 

[RangerRay]

If you need to make a choice, it makes sense to go back to the classics, rather than go full USSF...

Everybody knows you never go full USSF…

 

[PrairieFella]

If your Army doesn't have fires, doesn't have AD, lacks sufficient tanks for a single battalion/regiment, lacks EW and comms, and lacks lift and recovery capabilities, I guess new dress uniforms are a reasonable substitute.

So less Army.ca and get on it

 

[rmc_wannabe]

If your Army doesn't have fires, doesn't have AD, lacks sufficient tanks for a single battalion/regiment, lacks EW and comms, and lacks lift and recovery capabilities,

All Major Capital National Projects that we, as the CAF/DND cannot build or fund without approval from PSPC, TBS, ISED, et al.....

I guess new dress uniforms are a reasonable substitute.

A minor capital project that uses existant funding and piggybacks off the existant CAF Clothing Contract with Logistik Unicorps.

Oh yes... these new uniforms, which are expected to cost under $5M of already committed Vote 1, is definitely eating away at our operational effectiveness. Not the Byzantine procurement model used to wring out economic benefits for Ste. Poutaine de Caliss, QC or throw more money at Irving or GDMS.

 

[dangerboy]

I have not looked into this for many years, but as I recall the sizings sent to industry are based on 1960s data... So there may be some discrepancies between what we ask for vs what we actually have.

The sizing info that DSSPM usually provides to industry is from the 2012 Canadian Forces Anthropometric Survey (CFAS) that was done by DRDC Toronto. For the Canadian Army Service Dress they also measured another roughly 500 soldiers to gain additional measurements that were not in the 2012 CFAS.