Updated Army Service Dress project

[dimsum]

They are Generals, they should get the jackets custom made because I have yet to see one that doesn't look like it’s 2 sizes too big.

The RCAF leather jacket looks awful regardless of size.

Like other procurement projects, we decided to wholly make ourselves something that the USAF has used for decades. The RAAF has a similar one with shoulder straps for epaulettes. Or we could have gone with the wool-collar USN one.

 

[MacNav63]

Hey, at least CA and RCN GOFOs don’t have their ranks on both sleeves and shoulders on their tunic for some unknown reason.

Looks at RCAF

I wasn't going to mention that...

 

[FJAG]

The RCAF leather jacket looks awful regardless of size.

Like other procurement projects, we decided to wholly make ourselves something that the USAF has used for decades. The RAAF has a similar one with shoulder straps for epaulettes. Or we could have gone with the wool-collar USN one.

View attachment 84457

I like it.

I liked my AFV crewsuit and jacket, too.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

The USN flyers jacket was adopted by the RCN in the 1950s.

That jacket has as much claim to being “our” historic leather flying jacket, as anything else…

 

[PrairieFella]

I like it.

I liked my AFV crewsuit and jacket, too.

View attachment 84460

Rumour has it there are new AFV crewsuits coming. I'd love one of those bad boys.

 

[dimsum]

The USN flyers jacket was adopted by the RCN in the 1950s.

That jacket has as much claim to being “our” historic leather flying jacket, as anything else…

Maybe one that can, as per regs, actually be worn flying?

 

[dimsum]

I like it.

I liked my AFV crewsuit and jacket, too.

View attachment 84460

…now, I don’t work with the Army much but I’m pretty sure that’s not an AFV.

 

[FJAG]

…now, I don’t work with the Army much but I’m pretty sure that’s not an AFV.

No, but they were also issued to all of us who crewed M109s or the M113 family of tracks in the artillery.

That's me in the right front doing an "open action" (basically a direct fire shoot). At the time I was the gun position officer of F Bty in Pet.

F Bty (Phantom F) didn't actually exist. 2 RCHA owned two batteries at the time: D in Pet, tasked as the AMF(L) battery for Norway, and E in Gagetown, tasked to provide support to the arty school. The CO wasn't happy with having only one six-gun battery in Pet so he split up the regiment there to form a second six-gun battery equipped with reserve force 105mm C1 howitzers and wheeled vehicles. I was with F Bty but we also had tracked M577 CP vehicles and were also assigned operational roles in D Bty which was equipped with L5s and fully equipped with tracked vehicles for Norway.

Here's me a year or so later as a FOO in D Bty - note my affectation for carrying an SMG rather than just a pistol at this time - all to blend in more as an ordinary infantryman to the enemy. I think this is my last time with an SMG. After this I went to carrying an FNC1.

 

[Pusser]

I would love to see the staff work that went into the DEU project and the different options that were put forward. Good to see you again @Pusser I hope all is well!

If you go to Quinpool Tailor on Oxford St in Halifax, they have some photos (or used to anyway) of the prototype square rig for MS and Below. I know it's not a pre-1968 photo because it's a sailor in square rig with a modern (MS) rank badge. Unfortunately, this idea was short-lived because the CDS of the day (who was against the DEU project to start with) put his foot down and refused to allow different uniforms based on rank. He also forbade sweaters as "too British." We didn't get sweaters again (we had them in green) until he retired. Everybody, except the Navy was issued a winter-weight and a summer-weight uniform. This was because some idiot decided we need two blue (winter-weight) jackets more than we needed a white tunic. The Army, by and large, hated their tan uniform and no one in the Air Force ever wore the winter-weight version because it was the same colour as the other one anyway.

 

[Pusser]

@FSTO maybe we can get 8 buttons and some proper RN styled NCM rank insignia too!

One can dream.

You do realize that only officers had eight buttons in RCN 1.0? C&POs only had six. The RN still does it this way. Interestingly, the RAN issues eight-button jackets to both officer and C&POs. I would rather have a white tunic than eight buttons on my blue jacket.

 

[Zoomie]

The RCAF leather jacket looks awful regardless of size.

Like other procurement projects, we decided to wholly make ourselves something that the USAF has used for decades.

USAF “leather” jackets are garbage. Painted on colour, cheap materials.

RCAF jacket is quality build, real cow leather. Fits perfectly. Holds up well in pretty much every season I’ve thrown at it - including the Arctic.

 

[Halifax Tar]

If you go to Quinpool Tailor on Oxford St in Halifax, they have some photos (or used to anyway) of the prototype square rig for MS and Below. I know it's not a pre-1968 photo because it's a sailor in square rig with a modern (MS) rank badge. Unfortunately, this idea was short-lived because the CDS of the day (who was against the DEU project to start with) put his foot down and refused to allow different uniforms based on rank. He also forbade sweaters as "too British." We didn't get sweaters again (we had them in green) until he retired. Everybody, except the Navy was issued a winter-weight and a summer-weight uniform. This was because some idiot decided we need two blue (winter-weight) jackets more than we needed a white tunic. The Army, by and large, hated their tan uniform and no one in the Air Force ever wore the winter-weight version because it was the same colour as the other one anyway.

I've never been there, now I have a reason. Thanks!

You do realize that only officers had eight buttons in RCN 1.0? C&POs only had six. The RN still does it this way. Interestingly, the RAN issues eight-button jackets to both officer and C&POs. I would rather have a white tunic than eight buttons on my blue jacket.

I do, the 8 buttons isn't for me. I, personally, want new rank badges. Styled on our previous ones. But we have a whole other thread for this.

 

[Cdn_Merchant_Navy Guy]

You do realize that only officers had eight buttons in RCN 1.0? C&POs only had six. The RN still does it this way. Interestingly, the RAN issues eight-button jackets to both officer and C&POs. I would rather have a white tunic than eight buttons on my blue jacket.

Eight buttons on a naval tunic are pretty much standard across Commonwealth nations, both military and auxiliary/merchant. It’s a nautical tradition. Canadian Coast Guard officers wear an eight buttoned jacket as does Royal Fleet Auxiliary, Merchant Navy (Canadian, British, Indian, etc).

Depending on the company you work for, most deck officers and engineers only ever wear them at receptions for customers, launching’s, or as requested by fleet managers, charterers.

But every Chief Officer/Engineer and Master Mariner I’ve known was proud to buy one once they’d reached senior officer certification, regardless of the frequency or opportunities to wear it.

Regarding white dress, I don’t get the appeal of polyester “tropical” tunics. Contracts in southeast Asia demonstrated the value of long sleeved soft white cotton boiler suits that fitted loose, breathed, and reflected the sun. These made sense at the equator and on deck watch.

 

[dimsum]

Regarding white dress, I don’t get the appeal of polyester “tropical” tunics. Contracts in southeast Asia demonstrated the value of long sleeved soft white cotton boiler suits that fitted loose, breathed, and reflected the sun. These made sense at the equator and on deck watch.

It looks good (on certain people). That’s about it.

It’s easy to get dirty and if polyester, doesn’t breathe.

 

[RangerRay]

If you go to Quinpool Tailor on Oxford St in Halifax, they have some photos (or used to anyway) of the prototype square rig for MS and Below. I know it's not a pre-1968 photo because it's a sailor in square rig with a modern (MS) rank badge. Unfortunately, this idea was short-lived because the CDS of the day (who was against the DEU project to start with) put his foot down and refused to allow different uniforms based on rank. He also forbade sweaters as "too British." We didn't get sweaters again (we had them in green) until he retired. Everybody, except the Navy was issued a winter-weight and a summer-weight uniform. This was because some idiot decided we need two blue (winter-weight) jackets more than we needed a white tunic. The Army, by and large, hated their tan uniform and no one in the Air Force ever wore the winter-weight version because it was the same colour as the other one anyway.

I actually liked my tan service dress. It seemed most troops I knew at the time did too. It sucked having to wear the dark green winter weight uniform on summer parades!

 

[rmc_wannabe]

I actually liked my tan service dress. It seemed most troops I knew at the time did too. It sucked having to wear the dark green winter weight uniform on summer parades!

Tan summer weight uniforms work, when you don't use hideous gold braid on rifle green for the insignia.

Definitely was a good idea, poor execution situation.

 

[Edward Campbell]

If you go to Quinpool Tailor on Oxford St in Halifax, they have some photos (or used to anyway) of the prototype square rig for MS and Below. I know it's not a pre-1968 photo because it's a sailor in square rig with a modern (MS) rank badge. Unfortunately, this idea was short-lived because the CDS of the day (who was against the DEU project to start with) put his foot down and refused to allow different uniforms based on rank. He also forbade sweaters as "too British." We didn't get sweaters again (we had them in green) until he retired. Everybody, except the Navy was issued a winter-weight and a summer-weight uniform. This was because some idiot decided we need two blue (winter-weight) jackets more than we needed a white tunic. The Army, by and large, hated their tan uniform and no one in the Air Force ever wore the winter-weight version because it was the same colour as the other one anyway.

We, in NDHQ's materiel Engineering branch who were responsible for making it happen, called the whole DEU thingy "Coates of Many Colours" in honour of the Hon. Robert Carman Coates, P.C., Q.C., M.P., the MND of the day, who imposed the DUE on us.

 

[MacNav63]

If you go to Quinpool Tailor on Oxford St in Halifax, they have some photos (or used to anyway) of the prototype square rig for MS and Below. I know it's not a pre-1968 photo because it's a sailor in square rig with a modern (MS) rank badge. Unfortunately, this idea was short-lived because the CDS of the day (who was against the DEU project to start with) put his foot down and refused to allow different uniforms based on rank. He also forbade sweaters as "too British." We didn't get sweaters again (we had them in green) until he retired. Everybody, except the Navy was issued a winter-weight and a summer-weight uniform. This was because some idiot decided we need two blue (winter-weight) jackets more than we needed a white tunic. The Army, by and large, hated their tan uniform and no one in the Air Force ever wore the winter-weight version because it was the same colour as the other one anyway.

I was at the tattoo at the Civic Centre in Ottawa when the DEUs were revealed to the public for the first time on parade. I could hear someone behind me mutter that the navy folks were "all dressed like petty officers..."

 

[dapaterson]

I was at the tattoo at the Civic Centre in Ottawa when the DEUs were revealed to the public for the first time on parade. I could hear someone behind me mutter that the navy folks were "all dressed like petty officers..."

There are lots of petty officers in the RCN.

Some are even non commissioned members.

 

[Halifax Tar]

There are lots of petty officers in the RCN.

Some are even non commissioned members.

God damn that was well played.