Updated Army Service Dress project

[Kirkhill]

The Army needs utility Kilts

That I like.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Having all Army members in skirts would be very progressive.

 

[Happy Guy]

Interesting discussion. I joined the Land Environment, now known as the Army, in the 1978 and I retired in 2021. I was an NCM who made the transition to the dark side - Officer. Since that time I have endured the following service uniforms (I won't mention the field uniforms and kit because I'll go into a raving rant):

• CF Greens (all environments) with forage cap and beret
• work dress (dress bus driver jacket, green pants, lagoon green shirt, and optional dickie)
• DEU (green and tan) with forage cap and beret)
• garrison dress (camouflage jacket for garrison use only), black belt, work dress pants and garrison boots
• pips and crowns
• Army, Division, Brigade patches
• trades badges, qualification badges

I am now glad that there are now a NDHQ Dress Committee and each of the Environments now have their own dress committees. This will prevent or mitigate the occurrence of bad decisions such as the work dress and the garrison dress - two uniforms which I absolutely hated. The work dress for making me look like a bus driver. The nonsensical camouflage jacket authorized for garrison use only. The garrison boots for being uncomfortable and unnecessary when we had the combat boots.

I concur that the Army DEU needs to be replaced for all the reasons already stated. My posting I had to wear the DEU short sleeve short and pants. The short was OK but the pants were too hot to wear during the summer and the flared bottoms made me look like a hold out from the 1970s.

I sincerely hope that the Army Dress Committee with ADM(MAT) be practical about this and hire a professional designer who can analyze the requirements and make a uniform that is: stylish; comfortable; practical - able to work and perform drill in; uses fabric that is easy to take care of; and holistically considers all the situations that this uniform will be used for - from ceremonial to office work. I hope that the designer considers all the aspects of the uniform from the head dress, jacket, pants, gloves and shoes. For god's sake if the uniform is going to be brown/tan change the shoes to brown - remember black shoe polish on the Tans? If forage caps are in, then change it for it will be comfortable to wear.

Since I'm now retired (age and medical reasons) and I will never to have wear a service uniform ever again (in case you don't get it, I'm being facetious):

• Sam Browne belts for the Army Officers - let them bastards suffer by polishing it
• Forage caps for all the environments - head torture device
• White puttees for the Navy ceremonial uniform - lets see you try and clean it clean and white
• 8 buttons for Naval Officers - because they don't want to be confused with the USN
• buttons on the sleeves for CPO1/CPO2s - lets see you try and wipe your noses on your sleeves
• Square rig for the Navy - uncomfortable uniform in retaliation for serving on a comfortable ship, 3 x hot meals a day and warm dry bunks.
• more insignia and devices on the uniforms for all - lets us transition to look more American

I can't think of anything for the RCAF except that they too deserve Tan uniforms for summer dress. Another uniform to take care of.

Cheers

 

[FJAG]

Having all Army members in skirts would be very progressive.

I already wore a kilt for four years. I've done my part.

 

[Spencer100]

Yesterday's combat uniform is today's dress uniform, today combat is tomorrow's dress and so it goes.

history of soldier's dress uniform to combats - Search Videos

www.bing.com

When this is the combat uniform

This will be the Dress uniform

 

[FJAG]

The Spanish Legion enters the chat.

 

[Halifax Tar]

I already wore a kilt for four years. I've done my part.

Point of clarity, it's a Skirt.

 

[WLSC]

Yep, teh colour will be same as the Kiwi. LogisticUnicorp already supply some parts of the new uniform to other armies of the Empire , we are just jumping on the band wagon, kinda.

 

[GK .Dundas]

Point of clarity, it's a Skirt.

Only if you're not wearing a sporran. At which point you go from a towering symbol of masculinity to a cross dresser with extremely poor taste .
And possibly suffering from colour blindness as well.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

1968 was 55 years ago. An 18 year old issued khakis in 1967 and required to switch to greens in 1968 is now 73 years old. Don't know there are many 73 year olds still serving.

You can blame us boomers for a lot but I suspect this is all Millenial unnecessary.

Just like the executive curl, new RCAF mess kit etc…

 

[rmc_wannabe]

Just like the executive curl, new RCAF mess kit etc…

Except this is all to do with a SHORTAGE of the MATERIAL used to make the CA DEU pattern.

As much as I hate change parade, this is honestly some folks making a mountain out of a molehill.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Except this is all to do with a SHORTAGE of the MATERIAL used to make the CA DEU pattern.

As much as I hate change parade, this is honestly some folks making a mountain out of a molehill.

So replace the material, and move on to something important.

But, this is “what we do”. The CAF. Buttons bows and convene.

Maybe we should save money by getting rid of dress uniforms for operational kit.

 

[FSTO]

We sent 6 billion back to the Treasury last I heard. I don't think that lack of funds is the issue, and before you jump on me about wasting people's time, the dress committee's meet about twice per year per environment and take a half a day most of the time. They cover operational and non operational dress and then send it over to people whose only job is to carry out the recommendations in regards to clothing. I know you all know this.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Ya. I do. I am just tired of seeing non operational stuff “happening” when there’s no replacement for my operational clothing yet.

Or. Modern aircraft. Serviceable aircraft. Stuff like that.

 

[FSTO]

Ya. I do. I am just tired of seeing non operational stuff “happening” when there’s no replacement for my operational clothing yet.

Or. Modern aircraft. Serviceable aircraft. Stuff like that.

Oh I hear you.

And when I listened to the podcast with Collenette, McKay and Leslie and how easy it was (MND just had to give the TB President a Nuggie) to get the C-17, Chinooks, etc it boggles my mind that buying stuff, especially Aircraft is such a cluster in this country.

 

[Edward Campbell]

Ya. I do. I am just tired of seeing non operational stuff “happening” when there’s no replacement for my operational clothing yet.

Or. Modern aircraft. Serviceable aircraft. Stuff like that.

In fairness, and as much as I did agree with you, the "buttons and bows" stuff is within the remit of the GOFOs; the important stuff - like serviceable aircraft - is not - it is policy (and policy is always tinged with politics) and, therefore, waaaaaay above their pay grade.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

I’d be happy with hearing “there’s a new 2 piece flight suit” some time around the same time I hear “the current 2 piece flight suit is discontinued”.

But that would be…

 

[Eye In The Sky]

In fairness, and as much as I did agree with you, the "buttons and bows" stuff is within the remit of the GOFOs; the important stuff - like serviceable aircraft - is not - it is policy (and policy is always tinged with politics) and, therefore, waaaaaay above their pay grade.

My renewed “lack of faith” extends upwards beyond GOFOs….

 

[Edward Campbell]

Oh I hear you.

And when I listened to the podcast with Collenette, McKay and Leslie and how easy it was (MND just had to give the TB President a Nuggie) to get the C-17, Chinooks, etc it boggles my mind that buying stuff, especially Aircraft is such a cluster in this country.

It was a different time, a different geo-strategic situation (Afghanistan mattered more than climate change), and above all a very different political situation. The relationship between Harper, Flaherty and Baird, at the centre, and O'Connor in DND was much different than the one that exists today between Trudeau, Freeland and Fortier and Anand.

 

[dapaterson]

We sent 6 billion back to the Treasury last I heard. I don't think that lack of funds is the issue, and before you jump on me about wasting people's time, the dress committee's meet about twice per year per environment and take a half a day most of the time. They cover operational and non operational dress and then send it over to people whose only job is to carry out the recommendations in regards to clothing. I know you all know this.

Sort of but not really.

For major projects, the funding did not lapse, it was instead reprofiled. So DND's CFO says "Hello, Dept of Finance and Treasury Board Secretariat, the project to buy XXX, approved for $400M, was scheduled to spend $50M this year, but only spent $20M for reasons X, Y and Z. Here is the new profile for that project's spending".

Except it's much more than just one project, and the reporting is both more complex and simpler. Finance and TBS review, give a thumbs up, and the money is moved to the years when DND says it's needed.

A-base funding is handled differently; a certain amount can be carried forward year to year because "things happen"; amounts beyond the carry forward limit will generally lapse.

So, it's accurate to say "DND underspent compared to plan by $X last year", but that does not mean "DND lost $X forever by not spending it last year."