Updated Army Service Dress project

[rmc_wannabe]

Also, as @rmc_wannabe said, Public Duties is not their thing and they don't have a ceremonial uniform. I wonder what the comments (both from the public and on here) would be if the CRs created a Sentry-specific ceremonial uniform.

But I digress.

I think this was a GIF moment that no one really thought through.

Mounting sentries specific to one organization or another as a celebratory thing for an anniversary has become the norm. It looks good on paper because is high profile and is a lot cheaper than flying, housing, dressing, and supporting a King's Guard detachment in London.

In the case of the Rangers, they tried to ram a square peg into the same round hole because "you're one of us, right?" As @Maxman1 alludes to, giving someone who has never done drill a week to become proficient isn't fair. Same with having them perform said duties in what most would consider operational dress.

Once this new army uniform comes about, I think it would be proper to have the Canadian Rangers adopt it with their own badging as their ceremonial uniform. I also think if they're going to be paraded around as a PR thing, actually teach them how to parade first and foremost.

If not, we need to keep that in mind the next time someone suggests that kind of circus again.

 

[dimsum]

Once this new army uniform comes about, I think it would be proper to have the Canadian Rangers adopt it with their own badging as their ceremonial uniform. I also think if they're going to be paraded around as a PR thing, actually teach them how to parade first and foremost.

If they're going to be issued this ceremonial uniform (or have a few in Ottawa for the sentries, since I can't see CRs doing many other parades), then are they going to be taught how to shine shoes/boots? Or will this be a catalyst for patent leather shoes on parade like the Americans, and ditch ankle boots?

Yes, this is a leading question. Also, yes, this is my hill to die on now after working in the NCR and wearing DEU 4-5x a week.

We already allow patent leather shoes in the CAF when not on parade. It seems silly to not allow them in the one time people actually really look at our uniforms.

 

[rmc_wannabe]

If they're going to be issued this ceremonial uniform (or have a few in Ottawa for the sentries, since I can't see CRs doing many other parades), then are they going to be taught how to shine shoes/boots? Or will this be a catalyst for patent leather shoes on parade like the Americans, and ditch ankle boots?

Yes, this is a leading question. Also, yes, this is my hill to die on now after working in the NCR and wearing DEU 4-5x a week.

We already allow patent leather shoes in the CAF when not on parade. It seems silly to not allow them in the one time people actually really look at our uniforms.

This guy's opinion and a toonie will get you a cup of coffee, but I can see it happening within the next 5 to 10 years. Not for any other reason than the fact it's already the norm for most troops to Leather Lustre their boots. I can see the CAF eventually just deciding to cut out the middle man and have it be the default.

The problem with patent leather/LL is that it's not even much of a time saver if I'm looking at it practically. They're still going to get scuffed to shit. They're still going to get dusty and dirty. They're still going to need to have some form of treatment on them so that it doesn't get damaged in wet conditions. If they get FUBARed, are you ordering a new set with points or cash sales? Because those things are far less salvageable than a pair of normal leather shoes that just need a bit of TLC.

As for myself, when you have been polishing footwear of some kind for the past 20 years, I guess I just prefer polishing. When I was wearing DEU for the week, 2 sets of Oxfords and I'd swap them every other day. First thing that happened when I got home was a quick brush shine, make a cuppa, then put a spot shine coat of Saphir on it. 15 minutes a day and I looked professional.

I often find we search for "efficiencies" that aren't really saving us time or effort. Its the concept of Right to Repair vs. Dependant Consumption.. just with boots.

 

[dangerboy]

I do find that when they changed the footwear a number of years ago the newer boots and oxfords are a lot harder to shine than my older footwear. I don't know why the newer footwear is harder to get a good shine with but if we do get new footwear just make sure it is made of a material that can be shone fairly easily.

 

[Maxman1]

They don't go through BMQ and all that, right? If so, I wouldn't blame them too much for not meeting the standard of the NWM sentries if all they literally had was a week to learn how to march, as well as the Tomb-specific drills.

Also, as @rmc_wannabe said, Public Duties is not their thing and they don't have a ceremonial uniform. I wonder what the comments (both from the public and on here) would be if the CRs created a Sentry-specific ceremonial uniform.

But I digress.

Indeed. They have a specific task within the CAF, one that doesn't require learning drill, and they do an awesome job.

All in all, Rangers sentrying the Tomb was a good idea that was poorly executed.

 

[rmc_wannabe]

I do find that when they changed the footwear a number of years ago the newer boots and oxfords are a lot harder to shine than my older footwear. I don't know why the newer footwear is harder to get a good shine with but if we do get new footwear just make sure it is made of a material that can be shone fairly easily.

There is a weird polymer film they put on to preserve the leather while in storage. It makes it so that the leather doesn't absorb polish on it. I found that if I soaked the footwear in boiling water and took a green scrubber to then, it sluffed off pretty easily and would take a solid base coat after they had dried out.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

There is a weird polymer film they put on to preserve the leather while in storage. It makes it so that the leather doesn't absorb polish on it. I found that if I soaked the footwear in boiling water and took a green scrubber to then, it sluffed off pretty easily and would take a solid base coat after they had dried out.

I used mineral spirits to strip them down and started from scratch. A lot of hours and effort that I won’t repeat again because the CAF buys unsuitable kit. Besides, they removed the “shall be polished” wording from 265 in the last version.

If we were serious, we’d just go to patent leather dress footwear. SOI to 1 pr/ea per entitled mbr.

 

[Rifleman62]

Saphir: a very good product. Cream, then wax.

 

[GR66]

I think this was a GIF moment that no one really thought through.

Mounting sentries specific to one organization or another as a celebratory thing for an anniversary has become the norm. It looks good on paper because is high profile and is a lot cheaper than flying, housing, dressing, and supporting a King's Guard detachment in London.

In the case of the Rangers, they tried to ram a square peg into the same round hole because "you're one of us, right?" As @Maxman1 alludes to, giving someone who has never done drill a week to become proficient isn't fair. Same with having them perform said duties in what most would consider operational dress.

Once this new army uniform comes about, I think it would be proper to have the Canadian Rangers adopt it with their own badging as their ceremonial uniform. I also think if they're going to be paraded around as a PR thing, actually teach them how to parade first and foremost.

If not, we need to keep that in mind the next time someone suggests that kind of circus again.

Maybe the problem wasn't in the CR's execution but in the CAF's attempt to put square pegs into round holes by taking valued members of a unit that doesn't do drill, etc. and trying to have them do the same drill as units that do practice it?

Have them stand guard and show their respect in a way that is more suitable to their unit. It may not look the same as having the GGFG's perform the standard guard drill routine but still gives the CR's an opportunity to honour our fallen without putting them in a potentially embarrassing situation. Have someone on site to explain to visitors to the tomb the history and importance of the Canadian Rangers and what their uniforms symbolize etc.

Somewhat typical CAF example of poor planning/execution and missed opportunities in my mind.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Maybe the problem wasn't in the CR's execution but in the CAF's attempt to put square pegs into round holes by taking valued members of a unit that doesn't do drill, etc. and trying to have them do the same drill as units that do practice it?

Have them stand guard and show their respect in a way that is more suitable to their unit. It may not look the same as having the GGFG's perform the standard guard drill routine but still gives the CR's an opportunity to honour our fallen without putting them in a potentially embarrassing situation. Have someone on site to explain to visitors to the tomb the history and importance of the Canadian Rangers and what their uniforms symbolize etc.

Somewhat typical CAF example of poor planning/execution and missed opportunities in my mind.

As most of the Rangers out this way are ex-long service combat arms SNCOs, I'll assume the poor planning included not grabbing people like that for the task...

 

[FSTO]

We already allow patent leather shoes in the CAF when not on parade. It seems silly to not allow them in the one time people actually really look at our uniforms.

I made the mistake of wearing the patent leather shoes at a BOA in Ottawa. I was only sitting but I thought my feet were going to melt! So I can’t imagine how bad they’d be marching on a hot day.

 

[dimsum]

Besides, they removed the “shall be polished” wording from 265 in the last version.

I made the mistake of wearing the patent leather shoes at a BOA in Ottawa. I was only sitting but I thought my feet were going to melt! So I can’t imagine how bad they’d be marching on a hot day.

Yeah, that's the downside I can see. My feet are...pungent after a day at the office and they normally don't sweat much.

Whoever makes foot powder would have a killing in extra sales.

 

[OldSolduer]

Just not being up to standard, because they had a grand total of one week, if that, to learn everything plus the Tomb-specific drills.

Which is totally unrealistic to expect them to pick it up in one week.
Not only that it’s not the Rangers job to do ceremonial duties. That’s part of the “conventional “ military’s job.

 

[WestIsle]

As most of the Rangers out this way are ex-long service combat arms SNCOs, I'll assume the poor planning included not grabbing people like that for the task...

There are definitely ex service members in the patrols particularly in BC but a significant majority of the Rangers are not ex service members including the local patrol leadership who get voted in.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Aren’t the sentry positions usually Cpl/Pte rank and the Guard NCO a Master Blaster?

Not that Snr NCOs can’t stand a post…

 

[Kilted]

Aren’t the sentry positions usually Cpl/Pte rank and the Guard NCO a Master Blaster?

Not that Snr NCOs can’t stand a post…

From my understanding, correct me if I'm wrong, but don't all rangers hold the substantive rank of Ranger and everything else is an appointment? I know some patrols hold elections every year to choose who wears which rank (at least that was what it was ten years ago, according to a Ranger from Saskatchewan that I ran into.

 

[Blackadder1916]

It's been near forty years since I've had professional contact with Canadian Rangers, though I expect that in the intervening decades there have been changes in the organization and emphasis on their contribution. Back then, a Ranger was very locally focused and a non-indigenous member was rare. While there were CF members from other components and sub-components involved in the command and administration of those members, only Rangers were Rangers and I don't recall any Reg or PRes members identifying themselves as such or making use of the iconic hoodie and ball cap, but a couple of photos seems to suggest that policy has become more flexible.

I don't begrudge any CRs from wanting to undertake a little more ceremonial or to have a clean shirt in which to do it, but when did the policy of the highest CR rank being Sergeant, attained by vote of the member's patrol/community. And does a Canadian Ranger really need a sword on parade?




From a fading memory of being schooled on surviving and moving in the North, the only one in the picture who resembles the Rangers of my distant past is the GG.

 

[WestIsle]

It's been near forty years since I've had professional contact with Canadian Rangers, though I expect that in the intervening decades there have been changes in the organization and emphasis on their contribution. Back then, a Ranger was very locally focused and a non-indigenous member was rare. While there were CF members from other components and sub-components involved in the command and administration of those members, only Rangers were Rangers and I don't recall any Reg or PRes members identifying themselves as such or making use of the iconic hoodie and ball cap, but a couple of photos seems to suggest that policy has become more flexible.

I don't begrudge any CRs from wanting to undertake a little more ceremonial or to have a clean shirt in which to do it, but when did the policy of the highest CR rank being Sergeant, attained by vote of the member's patrol/community. And does a Canadian Ranger really need a sword on parade?


View attachment 77301

From a fading memory of being schooled on surviving and moving in the North, the only one in the picture who resembles the Rangers of my distant past is the GG.

View attachment 77302

The Rangers has grown a lot in the last decade including their funding. There has been a fair bit of mission creep in my opinion and some of their deployments during for example domops could be seen as scandalous under certain lights.

 

[OldSolduer]

The Rangers has grown a lot in the last decade including their funding. There has been a fair bit of mission creep in my opinion and some of their deployments during for example domops could be seen as scandalous under certain lights.

So you’re really saying the Good Idea Fairies got involved.

 

[WestIsle]

So you’re really saying the Good Idea Fairies got involved.

I've heard from higher that things have sorta changed since that Ranger went to go visit the PM a couple years ago but yeah. Rangers have always been a convenient way to pump money into isolated communities but I remember there being quiet the scene during Op Lentus in BC during 2017 when Rangers were making Class C pay in voted in ranks of Sgt/MCpl having only been in for a couple years collecting near a thousand dollars a day but weren't employable in any much capacity and didn't partake in camp duties.

Im not against the Rangers per say but Im not a huge fan of deploying people who cant be charged or meet universality of service. I mean at least you can charge CIC officers.