Updated Army Service Dress project

[dimsum]

The Defence Women's Advisory Organization?

…and they say DEI initiatives don’t help

 

[rmc_wannabe]

…and they say DEI initiatives don’t help

I mean, if they were the organization that was finally able to get the heat and light on how uncomfortable, ugly, and outdated the Army DEU is by all means.

 

[quadrapiper]

It’s the other way around.

The environmental committees (which meet like twice a year) control the operational and specialist dress because there’s no point talking about flight suits to a group with the Army and Navy involved. Similarly, NCDs or new Army-specific items.

The national committee (again, twice a year) discusses the DEU stuff.

The minutes are available on DWAN and they discuss all sorts of things.

Copy re: operational stuff. Why not ditch the CAF committee entirely, or dial it back to a vestigial function?

 

[dimsum]

Copy re: operational stuff. Why not ditch the CAF committee entirely, or dial it back to a vestigial function?

One example I can think of it the Naval Warfare Officer “moustache”. Originally the RCN said only folks still in RCN uniform can wear it.

There’s a bunch of former NWOs who have OT’d to the other services. The CAF Committee could have nipped that in the bud and say “all qualified persons regardless of uniform can wear it”, which is what happened a few years later in that forum.

 

[Blackadder1916]

. . . Why not ditch the CAF committee entirely, or dial it back to a vestigial function?

There has to be some sober second thought, or even first thought, otherwise the result could be . . .



In the first instance, a uniform that was so identified with its proponent (USAF Chief of Staff McPeak) that when it was unveiled to the press he was the one modeling it. It didn't survive past his tenure as Chief.

In the second instance, what can I say. When the USSF uniform was unveiled, the only one who looked comfortable was the Chief of Space Operations. But that feeling doesn't appear to have lasted at the ceremony when he handed over command.

 

[markppcli]

Copy re: operational stuff. Why not ditch the CAF committee entirely, or dial it back to a vestigial function?

Because a lot of our folks wear the same quals despite their “environment.” For example a Navy Medic might earn their jump wings in a field ambulance.

 

[quadrapiper]

Because a lot of our folks wear the same quals despite their “environment.” For example a Navy Medic might earn their jump wings in a field ambulance.

Which suggests a vestigial committee, and some hard rules around transferability, not something where, e.g., an Army CWO can have input on Navy accoutrements.

 

[Halifax Tar]

You don't need a committee to decide where a ships team diver badge goes on to an Army or RCAF tunic. This is why you have command CPOs and CWOs.

 

[markppcli]

Which suggests a vestigial committee, and some hard rules around transferability, not something where, e.g., an Army CWO can have input on Navy accoutrements.

So like you could have the Army CWO discuss this with the RCN CWO, and the RCAF CWO, possibly around a table a couple times a year with a couple other stake holders to come to common understandings about those issues ?

 

[PrairieFella]

So like you could have the Army CWO discuss this with the RCN CWO, and the RCAF CWO, possibly around a table a couple times a year with a couple other stake holders to come to common understandings about those issues ?

Preposterous!

 

[Ostrozac]

I'm wondering if we are going to see the whole Sailor 1st Class thing go away after the next election.

That’s a real risk of the RCN exceeding their authority on rank designations — that by the time the new “pirate ranks” make it to cabinet, it’s a cabinet formed by another party that makes the decision not to amend the KR&O — forcing the RCN to backtrack and sheepishly try to explain years of using illegal rank designations.

Authority levels are there for a reason — that’s the level that owns the decision, and has to justify it or deal with any backlash. Stepping outside those authorities is risky, and shouldn’t be taken lightly. As was done in this case.

 

[ueo]

The photo was from the 1977 edition of The Patrician (a PDF download). The officer is not identified, however he would have been with 3VP. I used that photo to illustrate that way back when, some officers of the PPCLI wore wedge caps - either (I speculate) as a nod to a Rifles heritage or because they thought they could look as cool as the Royal Green Jackets exchange officer (they couldn't). I remember the few times that I saw officers wearing it in Calgary they were in service dress, usually S4 (short sleeve shirt). It's odd seeing an army officer of that era wearing a wedge with combats, but from the same pub there's another image of someone also wearing the wedge cap, this time in work dress.

View attachment 89230

3RCR Pet Early 70's under LCol Ron Cheriton.

 

[FJAG]

The photo was from the 1977 edition of The Patrician (a PDF download). The officer is not identified, however he would have been with 3VP. I used that photo to illustrate that way back when, some officers of the PPCLI wore wedge caps - either (I speculate) as a nod to a Rifles heritage or because they thought they could look as cool as the Royal Green Jackets exchange officer (they couldn't). I remember the few times that I saw officers wearing it in Calgary they were in service dress, usually S4 (short sleeve shirt). It's odd seeing an army officer of that era wearing a wedge with combats, but from the same pub there's another image of someone also wearing the wedge cap, this time in work dress.

View attachment 89230

I'll take this up a little bit.

The "wedge" cap started life in the British army as a version of the forage cap (a term that applies to various types of head dress over the years including the more recent peaked one). For quite some time the Brits used a form of comfortable cap to wear in "undress" situations. The wedge-style entered general service in 1896 as the "Austrian Cap" and which also became known as the "Side Cap" and finally as the "Field Service Cap." It stayed in general use until 1902 although it stayed in limited service thereafter. It returned into general service, slightly altered in 1937 as the "Universal Pattern Field Service Cap" in khaki to be worn with battle dress. With the khaki one a plethora of coloured regimental ones quickly sprung up.

British Army Coloured Field Service Caps 1937 to 1941

arnhemjim.blogspot.com

Canada generally followed suit with Brit customs while we wore the same uniforms. The field service cap usage began to wane with a more general introduction of berets. I recall in the 1960s that, as NCMs, we wore the blue beret with a red cloth patch behind the gunner hat badge with battle dress in the field but the peaked forage cap with a red band when in garrison while several of our officers were wearing red over blue field service caps with their battle dress. By the time I became an officer in the RegF those were all gone in the artillery, as we'd transitioned to the boring and unadorned CF greens, but I continued to see Brit arty officers wearing them to the present day.

 

[Edward Campbell]

During the last big, Big, BIG dust up (most of us vs the 'Jerries' in the 1930s and '40s) most Canadians wors a version of the wedge cap. The beret was, mainly, for tank crews and their RCEME helpers.

 

[FJAG]

During the last big, Big, BIG dust up (most of us vs the 'Jerries' in the 1930s and '40s) most Canadians wors a version of the wedge cap. The beret was, mainly, for tank crews and their RCEME helpers.

Just like the "Jerries."

 

[Edward Campbell]

The beret made and still makes good, functional sense for them - our "zipperhead" and "greasy" friends. Just like the keffiyeh did for SAS in the 1940s.

 

[FJAG]

And just for a giggle, here's the Canadian army field service cap and the German Wehrmacht M34 field service cap.

The the M34 was replaced by a very similar but unpopular M42 which itself was quickly changed to the M43 which was the same but had a visor added to shade the eyes.

 

[Edward Campbell]

And just for a giggle, here's the Canadian army field service cap and the German Wehrmacht M34 field service cap.

The the M34 was replaced by a very similar but unpopular M42 which itself was quickly changed to the M43 which was the same but had a visor added to shade the eyes.

 

[Edward Campbell]

And then:

 

[MacNav63]

During the last big, Big, BIG dust up (most of us vs the 'Jerries' in the 1930s and '40s) most Canadians wors a version of the wedge cap. The beret was, mainly, for tank crews and their RCEME helpers.

A group from 122 Light Aid Detachment RCEME taken in 1943 in England illustrating exactly that.