OldSolduer
Army.ca Relic
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I hear Australia is buying new submarines......
They are paper designs, so I don't think anyone is going to bite after that mess. Unless France commits to building their own demonstrator.And France is looking for buyers for the Attack class Australia was going to buy.
It turns out that is a bigger leap than expected. I was looking forward to the Short Fin Class as well. My guess is that the only way it will get built is that the order is placed in French yards and possibly they build a mock up of the Diesel engine room section.It's a diesel version of the existing Suffren class, the lead of which became fully operational last June, so not entirely vapourware like the Type 216.
I don't disagree, but also apparently the French were difficult to work with and where the truth is in that is hard to say, but I think without a real sub in hand, then they will struggle to sell the class to any other customer. that will be a hard sell as France operates a nuclear only fleet.I think most of the development issues were with having it built in Australia instead of France. That would be more expensive and take longer because of the transfer of technology for the shipyards to be set up to build them.
Ultimately the creation of AUKUS and the Australian government deciding to go nuclear that ended the program, abandoning their A$2.4 billion investment at that point.
I don’tDont read the replies to that tweet.
I don’t
I had guessed it would be a train wreck of epic proportions, and didn’t feel like wanting to ruin my morning.I cant help it... lol
It's amusing, to say the least. Every spectrum of commentary from "what an embarrassment" "China....." "No! Nukes bad!"I had guessed it would be a train wreck of epic proportions, and didn’t feel like wanting to ruin my morning.
Could [recent UORs] signal a more generalized way of improving the procurement process? Now she has been in both chairs perhaps she has found a way to insert a degree of urgency into the routine and devised a new process that she is prototyping?
UORs follow the same process as every other process. The two exceptions are that they get prioritized for staffing (so something else sacrifices momentum for the UOR to live), and we buy quantities too small to fully support the CAF (so we pay a lower price, which lowers risk and may allow some gateways to be skipped). If you want a capability to be sustainable, you need to follow your UOR with a full project.I sure hope so. It would make my heart swell to see the UOR process become the de facto process for military procurement. Operational items, ofcourse; we can still play the game for office supplies, IT, and other aspects.
UORs follow the same process as every other process. The two exceptions are that they get prioritized for staffing (so something else sacrifices momentum for the UOR to live), and we buy quantities too small to fully support the CAF (so we pay a lower price, which lowers risk and may allow some gateways to be skipped). If you want a capability to be sustainable, you need to follow your UOR with a full project.
Don’t think any of the aFP UORs have the scope to address the full CA needs.
It's a diesel version of the existing Suffren class, the lead of which became fully operational last June, so not entirely vapourware like the Type 216.
The Attack class from what I read was going to differ substantially enough from the Barracuda's, drawing from them and the Scorpenes so I dont see the huge advantage over the U216/U214/U212/U218 line other than the French were actually building subs of that displacement. The French have one more kick at the can with the Dutch/Walrus replacement. Still surprised the French couldnt make the move to nuclear for Australia so obviously there was something in the relationship as Colin aludes to however Brazil continues to move forward with its nuclear sub with French help.I don't disagree, but also apparently the French were difficult to work with and where the truth is in that is hard to say, but I think without a real sub in hand, then they will struggle to sell the class to any other customer. that will be a hard sell as France operates a nuclear only fleet.
Could it be a matter of one foot in the door of sorts?UORs follow the same process as every other process. The two exceptions are that they get prioritized for staffing (so something else sacrifices momentum for the UOR to live), and we buy quantities too small to fully support the CAF (so we pay a lower price, which lowers risk and may allow some gateways to be skipped). If you want a capability to be sustainable, you need to follow your UOR with a full project.
Don’t think any of the aFP UORs have the scope to address the full CA needs.
Setting aside the immense question of infrastructure, expense, and will to establish a nuclear fleet: would Canada be better served individually/be more useful as a coalition partner with SSNs or long-haul SSKs?