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U.S. Annexing Canada (split fm Liberal Minority thread)

I have yet to meet any of these Canadians. Anyone I talk to thinks our military is a joke.
I agree, people I talk with are shocked, saddened and upset, but I have to omit the people I talk with are over 98% Cons/Lib supporters, not NDP. Somehow I feel that the majority of NDP supporters don’t care or want Canada to have a dependable, respectable Armed Forces.
 
I have yet to meet any of these Canadians. Anyone I talk to thinks our military is a joke.
Same. But they still think we can do the bare minimum. When I tell them that it is likely no one from the CAF will be coming to save them in any really meaningful numbers if we have a severe flood or fire season their eyes get wide.
 
I have yet to meet any of these Canadians. Anyone I talk to thinks our military is a joke.
I have met people who think we could militarily take the USA today.

I have also met people who think we are capable because of what we fielded in Afghanistan, not understanding our equipment isn’t even as good as we had it in Afghanistan. Even former military members don’t understand, usually with the longer they have been out the less in tune with the current situation they are. Explaining the ‘decade of darkness’ was generally better equipped and manned makes them look like a deer in headlights.

Much of the general public I don’t think really cares or understands anything military. They see stuff like the snowbirds occasionally, maybe a couple platoons on remembrance day, and thats about it.

Why would they believe we aren’t in decent shape? It isn’t like the politicians or military is sounding the alarm on it. There is no media exposes. As far as the public is concerned everything is fine.
 
Do these people you have met understand Trump has nukes, and we do not?

In fairness, the nukes would seal the oil in the ground and make it unavailable for a few decades. At least more than one Presidential election cycle.

If Trump wants Alberta intact he'll have to limit himself to I Corps, III Corps and XVIII Corps. I am sure the locals at Coutts would be enough to handle them.

PS - The Spokane National Guard is pretty good as well.
 
Do these people you have met understand Trump has nukes, and we do not?
Honestly I wouldn’t factor nukes into the equation myself, our big weakness of having 90% of the pop within 200km of their border works in our favour when nukes are involved. That is a lose/lose situation for America. It would also negate any reason to invade Canada as good luck getting natural resources out afterwards.

Much easier to justify nukes on a foreign country far away than one on your border.

Plus they wouldn’t need it with all the conventional munitions they possess.
 
Plus they wouldn’t need it with all the conventional munitions they possess.

Right.

The United States Strategic Bombing Surveys - Europe and Pacific - made it clear what "conventional" strategic bombing could do.

Without nukes.

The Aiming Points were usually the centers of the largest cities.

Your Primary object will be the progressive destruction and dislocation of the military, industrial, and economic system, and the undermining of the morale of the people to a point where their capacity for armed resistance is fatally weakened.

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I highly doubt there would be much of a civilian resistance when access to arms and ammunition is nearly non existent. It's one thing to say "hell ya I'll fight those bloody yanks!", it's another to form civilian defense forces with absolutely no weapons vs armor and basic infantry. The CAF itself has shortages of bullets, so where am I supposed to go to get a rifle locally? Walmart?
 
I highly doubt there would be much of a civilian resistance when access to arms and ammunition is nearly non existent. It's one thing to say "hell ya I'll fight those bloody yanks!", it's another to form civilian defense forces with absolutely no weapons vs armor and basic infantry. The CAF itself has shortages of bullets, so where am I supposed to go to get a rifle locally? Walmart?
In times of conflict there are always those that will step up and supply all the guns and bullets anyone could want. In fact I wouldn’t be shocked if most of that supply would come from south of the border.

Supply and demand is universal.
 
In times of conflict there are always those that will step up and supply all the guns and bullets anyone could want. In fact I wouldn’t be shocked if most of that supply would come from south of the border.

Supply and demand is universal.

Our problem would be that the only anti-tank and anti-aircraft weapons on the continent are owned by the Americans. The Ukrainians at least had a variety of "local" suppliers to hand.
 
Our problem would be that the only anti-tank and anti-aircraft weapons on the continent are owned by the Americans. The Ukrainians at least had a variety of "local" suppliers to hand.
To be honest I couldn’t see anything more than an IRA style resistance. And broken down into multiple factions across the country. This would not be an Ukraine style conventional war by any means.
 
To be honest I couldn’t see anything more than an IRA style resistance. And broken down into multiple factions across the country. This would not be an Ukraine style conventional war by any means.

And I think that would the "best guess".
 

Regarding morale, the USSBS put it this way, "The power of a police state over its people cannot be underestimated."

The Government of Canada has nowhere near "The power of a police state over its people" of wartime Germany and Japan.
 
There isn't going to be a "resistance". There have to be arms - preferably comparable to contemporary military small arms - already on hand, and they can't be registered or officially doled out in such a way that an invader could go door-to-door with a list expecting owners to turn over whatever the invaders expect to find. If we want Canada to be resistance-capable, we need an individual right to anonymously own contemporary military small arms in unspecified numbers. No-one else is going to be parachuting them in.
 
I highly doubt there would be much of a civilian resistance when access to arms and ammunition is nearly non existent. It's one thing to say "hell ya I'll fight those bloody yanks!", it's another to form civilian defense forces with absolutely no weapons vs armor and basic infantry. The CAF itself has shortages of bullets, so where am I supposed to go to get a rifle locally? Walmart?
Afghanistan and Iraq were a potent laboratory for what works in the modern context, and Ukraine has added a generational leap in technology. Direct fire small arms engagements generally aren’t it. The other guy pretty much always loses those. Effective attacks in the war we were in were usually IEDs. Now we’ve also had Ukraine show us the potency of FPV drones, granted we generally only see the minority of strikes that work.

The United States doesn’t leave wars because it has been militarily defeated. It leaves wars when the political appetite wanes, generally due to the cost in blood and treasure. The war doesn’t need to be won by the resisting power; they simply need to make it not worth it.

While I remain confident that a U.S. military incursion i to Canada is exceptionally unlikely, pondering the realities of it are still interesting. Such a venture would only make sense if done for long term, large scale economic reasons. Necessarily that would mean cross border trade would have to continue; you can’t plunder if you don’t bring wealth back home. A third of a trillion dollars in goods exports to Canada a year mean lots of trucks and trains will still cross the border north. That means things can come in- weapons, tools and good to make or be converted into weapons… Canada would likely get a lot of material help from south of the border. We can’t keep US guns from crossing north even now when we want to. Imagine that suddenly reversing. For those really inclined to arm themselves, I imagine there are a lot of semiautomatic rifles surprisingly well preserved and easily findable at the bottom of lakes where the boat tipped over.

There is all kinds of nuisance, inconvenience, and expense that could be inflicted on America. How easy would it be to close the St Lawrence seaway? Or to choke off any of the narrow bits in the Great Lakes? You don’t need to sink ships; just start flying drones into the bridge to maim the crews and render them uninsurable. To a lesser extent the approaches to the port of Seattle could be similarly threatened- or at least made into a burdensome security operation. Oil and gas pipelines? Forget about it. Same with any land travel to and from Alaska. Puppet government and collaborators? They’d get taken out easily enough.

Safe bet that at least a few people within the Canadian intelligence apparatus would be in a position to massively and irreparably compromise America’s SIGINT collection and cyber operations against foreign adversaries. Simply letting foreign adversaries know what sort of stuff has been collected, what’s been getting listened to- it would be a decade rebuilding that. Lots of potential injurious compromise of other military capabilities too. An invaded Canada would no longer have any motivation to keep America’s secrets.

A lot of Canadians would die of course. As we know from previous conflicts, fighting a partially urbanized counterinsurgency means killing a lot of people. We also know that doing so fuels hatred and radicalization. The number of Canadians motivated to resist in ways small and large would only increase with time and casualties.

Anyway, that’s all just thinking out loud, and this is just the dumb ramblings of a guy who was a part time infantry NCO, went to the sandbox once, and then became a cop. A lot of people are way smarter than me, way more devious, and would be way less inclined to abide by anything resembling civilized rules.

So I don’t think we’ll actually see a U.S. invasion of Canada. Not because they couldn’t succesfully do so - of course they could - but because the return on investment would be dismal.
 
So I don’t think we’ll actually see a U.S. invasion of Canada.

If Germany and Japan are anything to go by, not until after a strategic air power ( conventional ) bombing campaign against Canada's largest cities.

The mere threat of that might be enough to collapse morale and obviate the need for a land invasion.

An Army of Occupation might be all that's needed.
 
If Germany and Japan are anything to go by, not until after a strategic air power ( conventional ) bombing campaign against Canada's largest cities.

The mere threat of that might be enough to collapse morale and obviate the need for a land invasion.

An Army of Occupation might be all that's needed.
Those are some pretty difficult situations to meaningfully compare to today’s hypothetical. America was at war with Germany and Japan for four years, and the strategic bombing campaign was to defeat them militarily and achieve a surrender from nations still capable of a conventional military resistance that would be quite costly.
 
America was at war with Germany and Japan for four years, and the strategic bombing campaign was to defeat them militarily and achieve a surrender from nations still capable of a conventional military resistance that would be quite costly.

Right.

Your Primary object will be the progressive destruction and dislocation of the military, industrial, and economic system, and the undermining of the morale of the people to a point where their capacity for armed resistance is fatally weakened.

Other than booing at hockey games, how high is the morale of the Canadian people to resist a strategic ( conventional ) bombing campaign - or even the threat of one - against their cities compared to the German and Japanese people by men like Harris and LeMay?



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