U.S. 2012 Election

[Bird_Gunner45]

This sums up Obama's presidency nicely.

 

[Haletown]

This sums up Obama's presidency nicely.

Most interesting that he campaigned on cutting the deficit - listen to his inaugural speech if you want a good laugh.

And yet his record is his record  . . . 36 months in office now, $5.3 Trillion in increased debt . . . the vast majority wasted on useless feel good stuff and paying off his base to buy votes/his second term.

Shame really, he could have been a contender.

 

[Bird_Gunner45]

yeah... you could put the same thing for Harper right now. 

the unfortunate part of the whole political process (US and Canadian) is that ridiculous unimportant (in the grand scheme of things) side issues such as gay marriage, abortion, contraception, Santorums/Romney's religion, Obama's birth place, etc will be what people merit their decisions on.  Obama is putting more debt in place for the next generation at a record pace, and not offering any real solutions to "important problems" such as Debt/Deficit reduction, how the clut of Gen X'ers retiring will be paid for without increasing debt, how to increase US manufacturing/sustainable economy, how to maintain US hegemony, and how to ensure that the union itself is maintained.

Obama said he disagrees with debt, and yet wracked it up like a 17 year old with a new credit card.  In my mind, that makes him either a liar or a hypocrite.  If this were a republican who was anti-gay and got caught playing footsy in a stall they'd be called on it.

Both sides are equally ridiculous in their lack of REAL vision, but it'd be nice if they were treated equally

 

[Rifleman62]

Pinocchio,  Snow White, and Superman are out for a stroll in town one Day. As they walk,  they come across a sign:

"Beauty contest for the most beautiful woman in the  world."

"I am entering" said Snow White.
After half an hour she comes  out and they ask her,
"Well, how'd ya do?
" First Place ," said Snow  White.

They continue walking and they see a sign:

"Contest for the  strongest man in the world."
"I'm entering," says Superman.
After half an  hour he returns and they ask him, "How did you make out?"
" First Place ,"  answers Superman. "Did you ever doubt?"

They continue walking when they  see a sign:
"Contest! Who is the greatest liar in the world?"
Pinocchio  says "this is mine."
Half an hour later, he returns with tears in his  eyes.
"What happened?" they asked.

"Who the heck is Barack Obama?" asked  Pinocchio. 

 

[vonGarvin]

 

[Haletown]

If I was running the RNC election campaign . . . .

 

[cupper]

Santorum is proving that it's not about electability, but rather Anybody but Romney.

The man has some whacked out ideas.

It's a tie:

Either

Rick Santorum: Prenatal testing encourages abortions

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/election-2012/post/rick-santorum-prenatal-testing-encourages-abortions/2012/02/19/gIQAvmZeNR_blog.html


Or

Rick Santorum: Neither Feds nor States should be educating our kids. (Around 8:00 mark)

http://youtu.be/wWLW_xtFH-U

 

[vonGarvin]

Santorum is proving that it's not about electability, but rather Anybody but Romney.

The man has some whacked out ideas.

I read the first article on prenatal testing, and I found the headline misleading.
From the article:

he was talking specifically about some, but not all, prenatal testing, and not about prenatal care in general. He said “there are all sorts of prenatal testing which should be provided free"

So, in short, his position is clear: abortion is murder.  (It's a tenet of Catholic faith that life, human life, starts at conception.  I'm not expecting you to believe that, counter it, or whatever).  But given that position as a premise, and given that some prenatal screens are used to look for birth defects, some people will determine that they couldn't be bothered with a handicapped child, so they will abort the baby.  Which, I will point out, is perfectly legal in the USA (and elsewhere, including in Canada). 

But I would avoid calling someone's position "whacked out", when it's based on reason. You don't have to believe or agree with the premise that human life begins at conception, but I don't think it's "whacked out" to think so.

 

[ballz]

TV, I am with you on the abortion front. While I don't agree with it, I understand the argument and that people will see it differently, Santorum just happens to be on the other side of the fence.

But Santorum is also the one advocating the State's ability to ban contraception, and he's one of the most homophobic people in politics. When those Marines were caught urinating on corpses, Santorum decided it was perfect timing for "This is the reason gays shouldn't be in the military."

So while I can see the argument for abortion, the argument for banning contraception is simply a "my religion says its wrong so you should have to abide by it," much like a Muslim politician saying that the state should be able to ban people from eating bacon (that's why I brought Santorum up earlier). Santorum was actually arguing about how using contraception means that sex is "only for pleasure," which is apparently wrong. There are some issues that the state has no business in, eating bacon and contraception are both one of them.

The guy is a complete fanatic, and it's scary that in any modern country he could be a politician, let alone running for the leadership of one of two major parties.

Bill Maher said it best earlier today, "Unemployment is down, confidence is up, DOW 5,000 above Bush - or as Republicans put it, let's talk about gay people and abortion!"

 

[a_majoor]

A rather sad commentary on today when you have to resort to "Kremlinology" to discover what is really going on in the economy (not just in the United States but globally as well; the PIIGS and China come to mind). One fo the vast advantages the West had over the "rest" was the relatively open and transparent systems that had been developed over the centuries. Broader access to reliable information makes decision making better, and since most things flow from chains of decisions based on the available information, having a chain based on accurate information makes the entire chain and end result stronger and more flexible and useful.

The efficient markets hypothesis an the local knowledge problem are subsets of this issue; markets react to the sum total of information so having markets move due to accurate information means resources are allocated "correctly" (i.e. where they generate a positive return on investment). Now watching how insiders and cronys move their money and resources around can and is being done, so the market still reacts, but more slowly and with displaced resources. Local knowledge of conditions is a feeting variable (which is why centralized control over large and complex systems is imposible), by denying even correct information about local variables then things fail all the way down the line:

http://pjmedia.com//instapundit/ (20 Feb 2012)

GAS PRICES ARE GOING UP, and Steve Hayward notes that it’s not because the economy is recovering, since demand for gasoline is actually dropping. Shipping demand isn’t good either.

Speaking of demand, I had dinner last night with a college friend who trades electricity, and he says he’s not seeing any sign of a recovery in his line of work — you’d expect a boost in electricity demand that he’s just not encountering. I wonder, if you were, say, an investor or a foreign intelligence service, what U.S. metrics would you look at to determine if the economy was really recovering, if you didn’t trust the official numbers?

UPDATE: Reader Dean Cheng writes:
The problem that you’re identifying about American statistics (how can electricity consumption not rise if the economy is growing) is exactly the sort of thing that also raises questions about the Chinese economy.

For example, at one point, China was claiming a major increase in the number of cars sold, yet gasoline demand was dropping.

That we now must subject the American economy to the same kind of close scrutiny formerly reserved for places like the People’s Republic of China, must [be] a further reflection of the Hopey-Changey policies of President Obama.

Civil society has taken a beating, hasn’t it?

Expect hyped up numbers for the next nine months followed by an "unexpectedly" severe letdown after the election. Even candidates who are sincerely running on platforms of economic reform and cleaning up the mess of debts, crony capitalist contracts and bad regulations will discover the task is far harder than they ever imagined.

 

[cupper]

The problem is that his argument essentially boils down to if can be used to justify abortion, then it should not be funded / covered. In fact many parents use the information from prenatal testing to make decisions and prepare for bringing a special needs child into the world. According to Sarah Palin, she debated deeply about her own child with downs syndrome, but finally was able to prepare herself and her family for the difficulties ahead.

I don't question Santorum's beliefs regarding abortion. I question his view that says we shouldn't be covering tests that could be used to justify something he doesn't believe in.

But the man does tend to be extreme in his ideas.

The whole state education should be scrapped because it is anachronistic.

Women should not be in combat because all of the men will succumb to their chivalrous tendencies and protect the woman, rather than fight.

Sex should only be for procreation, and that birth control allows sex to be reduced to something pleasureful.

 

[cupper]

And the problem is that extreme ideas can lead down a slippery slope to forcing women to undergo medically unnecessary procedures such as ultrasounds prior to obtaining an abortion.

And if you don't believe me, believe the current legislation that has recently passed in the House of Representatives for the State of Virginia, and is a lock to pass in the equally split State Senate, and will be signed by the Governor.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/02/17/the-birth-control-culture-war.html#body_text_7

HB 462 Abortion; informed consent, shall undergo ultrasound imaging.

Abortion; informed consent. Requires that, as a component of informed consent to an abortion, to determine gestation age, every pregnant female shall undergo ultrasound imaging and be given an opportunity to view the ultrasound image of her fetus prior to the abortion. The medical professional performing the ultrasound must obtain written certification from the woman that the opportunity was offered and whether the woman availed herself of the opportunity to see the ultrasound image or hear the fetal heartbeat. A copy of the ultrasound and the written certification shall be maintained in the woman's medical records at the facility where the abortion is to be performed. This bill incorporates HB 261.

The ABC news report on the Virginia bill explains:

The ultrasound legislation would constitute an unprecedented government mandate to insert vaginal ultrasonic probes into women as part of a state-ordered effort to dissuade them from terminating pregnancies, legislative opponents noted.

The Virginia law is expected to pass the state Senate. Gov. Bob McDonnell has said he will sign it. Then off to the federal courts.

 

[Sythen]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6TcpfBHlbs&feature=relmfu

Little light hearted view on the American debt Love Ray Stevens and happened upon this

 

[Bird_Gunner45]

And the problem is that extreme ideas can lead down a slippery slope to forcing women to undergo medically unnecessary procedures such as ultrasounds prior to obtaining an abortion.

This is what I was saying... the conversation always turns back to ridiculous side issues like this.  Who cares??? There are REAL issues that have to be dealt with.  If Santorum is elected president he can't just make abortions illegal, ban them, etc without an executive order which would likely be overturned.  A republican congress or senate could put legislation forward for it, but would likely not get passed (Democratic senate/Republican congress) or never even be introduced (opposite scenario).  So, it would result in a ton of wasted time on a side social issue which is, in the long run, completely unimportant. 

Meanwhile, the government will have wracked up another couple trillion in debt, Iran will have nukes and will be threatening Israel, the Taliban will still be in Afghanistan, China will still be surging, etc.

 

[vonGarvin]

 

[Brad Sallows]

>But Santorum is also the one advocating the State's ability to ban contraception

Actually, he advocates the states' right to ban contraception.  That has an extraordinarily different meaning in view of the fact he is seeking federal, not state, executive office.  And in the US, given the constitutional structure, it is entirely uncontroversial to adopt the position that "states may do X", irrespective of almost anything "X" might be.

 

[Bird_Gunner45]

>But Santorum is also the one advocating the State's ability to ban contraception

Actually, he advocates the states' right to ban contraception.  That has an extraordinarily different meaning in view of the fact he is seeking federal, not state, executive office.  And in the US, given the constitutional structure, it is entirely uncontroversial to adopt the position that "states may do X", irrespective of almost anything "X" might be.

Roger that.  Much like the "notwithstanding clause" we have, which is why Quebec has essentially been allowed to pass language laws that are blatantly biased. 

If a state and it's people REALLY want to ban contraception, and it's not unconstitutional, than what's the problem? If it's unconstitutional, than it'll be squashed in the courts.  If not, and I repeat, if supported by a majority of people, than so be it.  That's democracy.

 

[cupper]

This is what I was saying... the conversation always turns back to ridiculous side issues like this.  Who cares??? There are REAL issues that have to be dealt with.

If there are real issues to be dealt with, why then has the GOP put forth from DAY 1 of this congressional session anti-abortion, anti-same sex marriage, anti-healtcare bills. The first bill put forth by the GOP majority in the house included an amendment to strip funding from Planned Parenthood.

So far they have passed fewer bills and resolutions than any prior session.

And at the state level it has been far worse. Virginia GO legislature, senate and Governor in this current session have put forth legislation on gay marriage, gun rights, personhood, anti abortion, and vaginal probing of women without consent. (By the way, Governor McDonnell has ambitions for running on the GOP ticket this year as VP.)

So, if there are real issues to be dealt with, WTF aren't they doing something about it.

And by doing something about it, I don't mean obstructing the Obama Administration at every step so the electorate will make him a one-term president. I mean putting forth actual, real solutions to the problems that they know will pass both the House and Senate, with bipartisan support.

 

[cupper]

And we finally have absolute proof that voter fraud is alive and well in America.

Indiana election chief guilty of voter fraud

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0212/72450.html

INDIANAPOLIS  - Indiana's top elections official could lose his job and his freedom after jurors convicted him of multiple voter fraud-related charges on Saturday, leaving in flux the fate of one of the state's most powerful positions.
Republican Secretary of State Charlie White has held on to his office for more than a year despite being accused of lying about his address on voter registration forms.

A Hamilton County jury found White guilty of six of seven felony charges, including false registration, voting in another precinct, submitting a false ballot, theft and two counts of perjury. He was acquitted on one fraud charge.

White expressed no outward emotion as the verdict was read, and later said outside the courtroom: "'I'm disappointed for my family and the people who supported me."

It wasn't immediately clear what would happen to White's elected office. He has resisted calls to resign from Democrats and Republicans, including Gov. Mitch Daniels, but state law bars anyone convicted of a felony from remaining in office.

White's attorney, Carl Brizzi, said he will ask the judge to reduce the charges to misdemeanors because his client has no criminal background and has a long record of public service.

Daniels announced Saturday he had appointed White's chief deputy, Jerry Bonnet, as interim secretary of state.

"I have chosen not to make a permanent appointment today out of respect for the judge's authority to lessen the verdict to a misdemeanor and reinstate the elected office holder," Daniels said in a statement. "If the felony convictions are not altered, I anticipate making a permanent appointment quickly."

Bonnet has worked for the secretary of state's office since 2005, the statement said.

The jury verdict came after a weeklong trial in which White, who had vigorously protested the charges in hearings before a state elections panel, presented no defense.

Prosecutors said he used his ex-wife's address instead of a condo he had with his fiancée because he didn't want to give up his $1,000-per-month Fishers Town Council salary after moving out of that district. He faced seven felony charges, including voter fraud, perjury and theft.
White, 42, has said the charges ignored a complicated personal life in which he was trying to raise his 10-year-old son, plan his second marriage and campaign for the statewide office he won that November. He said he stayed at his ex-wife's house when he wasn't on the road campaigning and did not live in the condo until after he remarried.

Brizzi told the jury during his closing arguments Friday that White's name was on the condo's bills and documents because he was paying for his fiancee and her children to live there, not because he was living at that address.
No sentencing date was set.
Republican special prosecutor John Dowd expressed satisfaction about the verdict.
"We believe it was about someone who violated the law and cheated the system - and gamed the system," Dowd said. "And, obviously, the jury thought the same way."
A Marion County judge has ruled that White should be replaced by Democrat Vop Osili, the man he defeated by about 300,000 votes in the November 2010 election, but that ruling is on hold pending an appeal.
Attorney Karen Celestino-Horseman, who watched the trial and spoke on behalf of Indiana Democrats following the verdict, said the party believes White's conviction further affirms that Osili should be secretary of state.
"(White) has been convicted, but the judge has left it open for misdemeanor sentencing. That's something that's going to have to be examined," she said.
During his closing arguments, assistant special prosecutor Dan Sigler Jr. argued that White knew that he was committing voter fraud but did it anyway for political power.
"If we aren't going to enforce election law against the secretary of state of Indiana, who are we going to enforce it against?" Sigler said.

 

[vonGarvin]

If there are real issues to be dealt with, why then has the GOP put forth from DAY 1 of this congressional session anti-abortion, anti-same sex marriage, anti-healtcare bills.

Look at the language you just used.  Everything the GOP has done has been "anti", according to you (and yes, according to many).  Language is powerful, no?  But looking at it from the other side, they need to be "anti" (insert subject here), because someone has been pushing their own "pro" (insert subject here).  Same coin, different side.  And I suppose they are "anti" (insert subject here), because they believe that it's important.
Anti-abortion?  Nope, protecting innocent human life from being killed.  Anti same-sex marraige?  Nope, pro "traditional" marriage (you know, the kind that's been around for hundreds, if not thousands of years, pre-dating every major religion out there).  Anti-healthcare?  Nope: pro "you want it, you pay for it yourself".

It's all in the argument, but as I said, they are "anti" stuff that someone else is "pro" and is also pushing.  So, same coin, just a different side is all.