Turmoil in Libya (2011) and post-Gaddafi blowback

[57Chevy]

UN moves to pile pressure on Gadhafi regime

An international push to punish the Gaddafi regime for its brutal reaction to the Libyan uprising moved into high gear Friday night, after an Anglo-French attempt to spur the world into action.

Sanctions including a total arms embargo, freezing of assets and travel bans on government figures were being discussed by the UN Security Council in New York, after being proposed by France and Britain. The plan would also see the International Criminal Court begin investigating the Libyan government's attacks on protesters and consider indicting senior figures for crimes against humanity.

British diplomats said they were hopeful that "the usual UN timetable would not prevail". One added: "The urgency of this situation will be brought to bear".

Echoing comments by David Cameron, Michele Alliot-Marie, the French foreign minister, said: "We can't make do with speeches any more, we need to act". Western aides said they were encouraged by the response of China and Russia, who often reject the suggestion of interference in other states' internal matters. "They have not been blocking the way so far," one said.

A "no-fly zone" over Tripoli and Benghazi - which was requested by rebel Libyan diplomats to prevent strafe attacks from the air - looked unlikely, amid ongoing efforts to evacuate foreign nationals.

Indeed, Nato and the European Union were keen to stress the priority of rescuing European nationals stranded in Libya, with some concerned that sanctions or military intervention could trigger reprisals.

EU defence ministers also held talks with Anders Fogh Rasmussen, the Nato secretary-general, aiming to increase the pressure on Col Moammar Gadhafi without endangering the lives of thousands of Westerners. "We have to be careful that nationals do not get caught in the cross fire when pressure is brought to bear," said one EU diplomat. European governments had last night reached a consensus on the need for sanctions on the Gadhafi clan and instructed officials to announce detailed measures early next week.

Amid divisions and foot-dragging by Italy, which has huge economic interests in Libya, the EU - and its foreign minister, Lady Ashton - have been criticized for failing to act quickly.

Endorsing the move to "restrictive measures" against Gadhafi, Baroness Ashton insisted: "We are putting as much pressure as possible to try to stop the violence in Libya"

Meanwhile in Geneva, the 47-nation UN Human Rights Council established the UN's own commission of inquiry to look into possible prosecutions for war crimes.

Last night there was no immediate sign of the Gadhafi family fleeing.
"Plan A is to live and die in Libya, Plan B is to live and die in Libya, Plan C is to live and die in Libya," the dictator's son, Saif al-Islam said.
                          (Reproduced under the Fair Dealings provisions of the Copyright Act)

 

[The Bread Guy]

... on the Libyan fracas:

.... “I have instructed our officials to prepare a full range of sanctions against the Libyan regime, both in collaboration with our international partners, or unilaterally, if necessary.

“No options have been ruled out.

“Canada fully supports the United Nations Security Council on a resolution that could include a weapons embargo, individual sanctions against key Libyan officials and an asset freeze.

“The Libyan regime must and will be held accountable for its violation of human rights atrocities committed against the Libyan people.

“Canada also calls for Libya’s immediate suspension from the United Nations Human Rights Council. We are working with our allies and international partners to ensure that this suspension occurs, and will be acted on by the General Assembly.

“As well, Canada fully supports the Human Rights Council’s decision to dispatch a mission to investigate human rights violations in Libya.

“Finally, we call on the United Nations Security Council to refer the situation in Libya to the International Criminal Court.

“Those responsible for ordering and carrying out atrocities against the Libyan people must be held accountable ....

 

[57Chevy]

meanwhile....("People who don't love me don't deserve to live," he said) :

Gadhafi forces fire on protesters in Tripoli

BENGHAZI, Libya - Government paramilitary forces opened fire Friday on protesters who swarmed the streets of Tripoli in what opponents hoped would be a final push to topple Moammar Gadhafi's regime. Witnesses described multiple casualties from the fiercest violence yet in the Libyan capital.

It appeared that the regime had retained control, for now, of its major remaining stronghold. After the clashes, a defiant Gadhafi urged thousands of his supporters at a rally in the heart of the city to take up arms on his behalf.
---
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"We are just hearing about people dying, and it's like this isn't going to end," she said. "This guy will kill until the last day of his life."

By nightfall the pro-government forces, including militias and paramilitary forces, appeared to gain the upper hand. Most protesters retreated indoors, witnesses said.

It was Gadhafi, wearing a Russian-style fur hat, who assembled thousands of cheering supporters in the square. Standing on the ramparts of a castle and shaking his fist, he vowed to open state arsenals and distribute weapons to protect his regime.

"Every Libyan individual will be armed, every Libyan tribe will be armed. So Libya will turn to hell," he said, the square packed with people waving green flags.

"People who don't love me don't deserve to live," he said.

The address was broadcast on state television and appeared to be live, with the camera zooming in on the clock looming over the square to show the time.
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full article at link....
                          __________________________

Map: Libyan uprising closes in on Tripoli attached
Tripoli and the surrounding area, where Gaddafi’s forces had managed to stifle earlier protests, appear to be his last main stronghold as the revolt that has put the east under rebel control has also reportedly advanced through the west

              (Reproduced under the Fair Dealings provisions of the Copyright Act)

 

[AIC_2K5]

Don't raise Libyan hopes with promise of intervention, Mackay says


OTTAWA—Just how far will the world go to stop the bloodshed in Libya?

Probably not as far as anti-government demonstrators in the country are calling for, said Defence Minister Peter MacKay.

While the United Nations Security Council debates a long list of measures designed to punish and disarm Libyan dictator Moammar Gadhafi and the security forces that remain under his command, a number of nations say they are unlikely to order their military forces into the country to keep the peace.

The decade-long military slog in Afghanistan and the lukewarm global response to civilians being killed in Sudan’s Darfur region have shown that the UN’s famous Responsibility to Protect doctrine, a policy conceived in Ottawa in response to the 1994 genocide in Rwanda, has “lost it’s lustre,” MacKay said.


http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/945036--don-t-raise-libyan-hopes-with-promise-of-intervention-mackay-says?bn=1

More on link.

 

[MarkOttawa]

Prominent Canadian demands that other countries actually "do something".  Hurl:

Irwin Cotler: What Canada should do about Libya
http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2011/02/26/irwin-cotler-what-canada-should-do-about-libya/

...
Accordingly, Canada as an original architect of the R2P Doctrine, should join the international community in undertaking the following action...

• Calling on the European Union, which recently revised its European Security Strategy to include a strong reference to the R2P Doctrine — and which developed “Rapid Reaction Battle Groups” for that purpose following its intervention in the Congo, to deploy such a group to Libya as soon as possible.
• Calling on NATO to establish a no-fly zone to put an end to the bombing of civilians...

Irwin Cotler is a Member of Parliament and the former Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada.

My comment:

How typically Canadian--calling on others, the EU and NATO, to do the actual military dirty work without us. Why would they listen?

By the way, the two EU "battle groups" have never been deployed in any sort of action. There is no way the EU would agree (agreement would have to be unanimous) to so use them now, even with fervent Canadian urging. Moreover the troop numbers for both units together are only a total of some 4,000 .
http://www.government.fi/ajankohtaista/tiedotteet/tiedote/fi.jsp?oid=316451&c=0&toid=1946&moid=3125
http://www.defenceiq.com/tri-service/articles/eu-debates-of-attrition-the-slow-death-of-europe-s/

Mark
Ottawa

 

[tomahawk6]

Libya is likely to split along tribal lines if Gaddafi is assasinated or leaves. With the international community freezing his assets it leaves Gaddafi no choice,but to tough it out.
On a good note the RAF and SAS/SBS rescued 150 oil workers in the Libya desert airlifting them to Malta.

 

[57Chevy]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_Range_Desert_Group

On a good note the RAF and SAS/SBS rescued 150 oil workers in the Libya desert airlifting them to Malta.

Libyan rescue: careful planning lay behind daring mission
British special forces managed to placate local militia before rounding up oil workers and transporting them to the runway
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/feb/26/libya-british-oil-workers-military
Mark Townsend guardian.co.uk, Saturday 26 February 2011 20.38 GMT

Extracting the hundreds of UK oil workers stranded in the remote desert oilfields of Libya had provided David Cameron with one of the greatest headaches of his premiership.

With workers trapped in remote compounds on the vast stone-and-sand plain that forms part of the Sahara desert, in areas largely controlled by armed rebels, an attempted airlift had always appeared the most likely solution.

Initially it was assumed the RAF Chinook helicopters that were spotted arriving at Luqa airport in Malta on Friday would be tasked with the rescue mission. A return trip to some of the most isolated oilfields could constitute a 1,200-mile return trip, just about within the helicopter's range. Rapid air drops using Chinooks are a regular feature of clandestine operations by special forces units in Helmand province of Afghanistan.

But several major sticking points emerged. The helicopters are only able to carry a maximum of 55 passengers and as the days passed the number of Britons reported in the desert had grown to more than 500. Any airborne mission using helicopters would also be an unpalatable risk.

Attention turned to the Hercules C-130 transport aircraft, two of which were stationed in Malta. The Hercules' ability to land and take off from short runways – they can land in a field – combined with an operating range of thousands of miles and an ability to carry up to 128 passengers – meant they were given the task.

Intelligence, understood to have been provided by special forces on the ground, had identified a number of airstrips in rebel-held territory in the east of the country and special forces units from the SAS and the Special Boat Squadron may have tried negotiating for permission to use them. Eventually a suitable desert runway located south of Benghazi was selected and secured.

The main issue was the presence of Libyan ground-to-air missile systems, despite the C-130 Hercules has a sophisticated array of anti-missile technology, which includes a warning system, infrared countermeasures and decoy flares to guard against heat-seeking devices. On 30 January 2005, an RAF C-130 was shot down by an Iraqi insurgent with an anti-aircraft gun after it had dropped SAS paratroopers.

Intelligence on Libya's defence capability and siting of missile systems will have been central to any planning. Collating the information and scouring the country for a suitable landing point – a central meeting point – from where the oil workers would be taken for rescue is believed to have taken days to plan.

A number of the compounds where oil workers were staying were reported to have been under siege by local militia forces and this will have presented another problem for those planning the operation, although there were no reports of firefights involving British troops.

Somehow British special forces managed to placate local militia, most likely by negotiation, and then succesfully rounded up the oil workers from their bases and transported them to the runway.

Although defence sources last night far refused to expand on the precise role of the SAS and SBS, it is thought that troops may have been landed in Libya by HMS Cumberland when it docked in Benghazi on Thursday and then fanned south into the country's huge desert.

The manoeuvre echoes second world war strategies by British commanders when units of the Long Range Desert Group (LRDG) mounted covert daring strikes in North Africa against enemy positions and supply dumps.

Hours before the daring operation took place the Ministry of Defence confirmed it had "pre-positioned assets" for a rescue operation. Reports claimed that there may be up to 500 Britons still in compounds scattered across the Libyan desert, prompting speculation that another rescue mission may be required.

A Foreign Office spokesman confirmed that the evacuation operation was not finished, pointing to the inevitability of more Hercules rescue flights. He said: "Nothing is compete yet, we've definitely still got people there."

 

[MarkOttawa]

Text of UNSC Resolution 1970 is here:
http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2011/sc10187.doc.htm

The Council is...

...
“Acting under Chapter VII of the Charter of the United Nations, and taking measures under its Article 41...

Article 41:
http://www.un.org/en/documents/charter/chapter7.shtml

The Security Council may decide what measures not involving the use of armed force [emphasis added] are to be employed to give effect to its decisions, and it may call upon the Members of the United Nations to apply such measures. These may include complete or partial interruption of economic relations and of rail, sea, air, postal, telegraphic, radio, and other means of communication, and the severance of diplomatic relations.

So a no-fly zone or other military action would require a further resolution.  China? Russia?  Even India?

Mark
Ottawa

 

[CougarKing]

Isn't it about time this thread be re-named to "Libyan Civil War: the coming fall of Qaddafi?" Just a suggestion.

This topic has expanded to more than just the "Benghazi massacre topic" of more than a week ago.

Plus...

DJ Qaddafi?  :facepalm:

link

Libyan leader Moamer Kadhafi may be reviled by many of his own people and the international community, but he's enjoying an unexpected surge of popularity -- as a music video star.

A remix of a rambling 75-minute speech Kadhafi delivered on Tuesday, set to dance music and featuring the strongman alongside footage of two gyrating girls, has gone viral on the Internet.

It has racked up almost half a million views on the video-sharing website YouTube since it was posted three days ago.

Called "Zenga Zenga", the music video mixes Kadhafi's quotes with club beats, using lines in which he vows to fight "inch by inch, home by home, alley by alley" as the chorus for the song.

(...)

And Libyan opposition rebels take a key city near the capital:

link

ZAWIYA, Libya - Hundreds of armed anti-government forces backed by rebel troops who control the city closest to the capital Tripoli prepared Sunday to repel an expected offensive by forces loyal to Moammar Gadhafi surrounding Zawiya.

The Gadhafi regime, eager to show foreign reporters that the country is calm and under their control, took visiting journalists to Zawiya, 30 miles (50 kilometres) west of Tripoli. But an Associated Press reporter on the tour confirmed the anti-government rebels are in control of the centre of the city of 200,000. They have army tanks and anti-aircraft guns mounted on pickup trucks deployed.

(...)

 

[willellis]

Wow... The comments for that video are something else as well. One of them asking where he/she can find it on DVD to play at their wedding.  :

 

[sean m]

Supposedly the Mercenaries Are from Kenya,  as  this article states:

http://www.standardmedia.co.ke/InsidePage.php?id=2000030088&cid=4

The Kenyan President has been accused of selling the country to various nations including Libya. If so then the reason for some of these mercenaries from  Kenya would seem to make sense, since President Kibaki would not want to lose a valuable source of money for himself and his cronies.

Here is the article for this,

http://www.politicalarticles.net/blog/2008/07/14/political-corruption-mwai-kibaki-is-selling-kenya-to-libya-china-india-turkey-iran/

 

[MarkOttawa]

More Western evacuations by military:

UK, Germany fly secret missions into Libya
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/02/27/AR2011022700331.html

BERLIN -- British and German military planes swooped into Libya's desert, rescuing hundreds of oil workers and civilians stranded at remote sites, as thousands of other foreigners are still stuck in Tripoli by bad weather and red tape.

The secret military missions into the turbulent North Africa country signal the readiness of Western nations to disregard Libya's territorial integrity when it comes to the safety of their citizens.

Three British Royal Air Force planes plucked 150 stranded civilians from multiple locations in the eastern Libyan desert before flying them to Malta on Sunday, the British Defense Ministry said in a statement. One of the RAF Hercules aircraft appeared to have suffered minor damage from small arms fire, Defence Secretary Liam Fox said.

The rescue follows a similar secret commando raid Saturday by British Special Forces that got another 150 oil workers from the remote Libyan desert.

Separately, Germany said its air force had evacuated 132 people also from the desert during a secret military mission on Saturday.

German Foreign Minister Guido Westerwelle said Sunday that two German military planes landed on a private runway belonging to the Wintershall AG company, evacuating 22 Germans and 112 others and flying them to the Greek island of Crete.

Another 18 German citizens were rescued by the British military in a separate military operation Saturday that targeted remote oil installations in the Libyan desert, Westerwelle said. He said around 100 other German citizens are still in Libya and the government was trying to get them out as quickly as possible...

Mark
Ottawa

 

[PPCLI Guy]

Am I the only one who is fed up with the uproar about evacuation of Canadians?  The bleating comes from people who have knowingly put themselves at risk (for abundant compensation), and who happily jump on the "bloated civil service" bandwagon...which directly leads to understaffed Embassies.  The political posturing from the Opposition is equally suspect - they would have complained just as bitterly had the government decided to invest in a more robust DFAIT.

Sometimes, people have to take responsibility for their own decisions, like deciding to work in a less than stable country such as Libya.

 

[GAP]

No, you are not the only one....this posturing is really getting tiring....

 

[The Bread Guy]

Am I the only one who is fed up with the uproar about evacuation of Canadians?  The bleating comes from people who have knowingly put themselves at risk (for abundant compensation), and who happily jump on the "bloated civil service" bandwagon...which directly leads to understaffed Embassies.  The political posturing from the Opposition is equally suspect - they would have complained just as bitterly had the government decided to invest in a more robust DFAIT.

Sometimes, people have to take responsibility for their own decisions, like deciding to work in a less than stable country such as Libya.

Even the Globe & Mail is taking this line - highlights mine:

.... Obviously, the Canadian government must try to help as much as it can in such situations. It needs to work with other governments, as it apparently did in this case, to negotiate space for its own nationals on rescue flights and ships. It needs to try, as it also did with respect to the Libyan evacuation, to get a plane there to help evacuate its citizens. But when its efforts founder, is it really evidence of abandonment or incompetence? At the end of the day, it’s Canadians themselves, and in some cases the companies they work for, who are ultimately responsible for their own well-being.

 

[sean m]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2011/02/28/world-libya.html

The U.S. military is repositioning its naval and air forces around Libya to provide "flexibility once decisions are made," a Pentagon spokesman said.

Does Anyone Feel that this is a good idea of the United States if they do decide to go in, They have not even been asked by those in Libya to help them through military intervention. If they do decide to send in the naval, air or army forces into the country I feel that this could backlash and cause problems for the United States and the West.  Does Anyone feel that Canada should be involved militarily in this continuing violent escalition of violence. What bis your thought

 

[OldSolduer]

I'm sure Bob Rae could have done much better.....

 

[CougarKing]

link

The United States said it was prepared to offer "any kind of assistance" to Libyans seeking to overthrow the regime of strongman Moamer Kadhafi as they set up a transitional body.

As forces opposed to the longest-serving Arab leader took control of several western Libyan towns, US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton echoed the calls of world leaders, including President Barack Obama, for him to quit.

"We are just at the beginning of what will follow Kadhafi," she said.

"First we have to see the end of his regime and with no further bloodshed," she continued, noting Washington is eager for his ouster "as soon as possible."

The top US diplomat spoke as she prepared to leave for a ministerial-level meeting of the UN High Commission on Human Rights on Monday, and for bilateral talks with many of her counterparts about the crisis in Libya.

Meanwhile, The New York Times reported late Sunday that US and European officials discussed plans to impose a no-fly zone over Libya to prevent further killings of civilians by troops loyal to Kadhafi.

The newspaper cited an unnamed senior administration official as saying that no decision had been made.

Italian Foreign Minister Franco Frattini said Sunday that a key friendship treaty signed between Italy and Libya in 2008 was "de facto suspended."

According to The Times, the accord contains a non-aggression clause that some analysts said complicated Italy?s position in the event of international military intervention in Libya.

US administration officials said Sunday that they were also discussing whether the US military could disrupt communications to prevent Colonel Kadhafi from broadcasting in Libya, the paper said.

In addition, the administration was looking at whether the military could be used to set up a corridor in neighboring Tunisia or Egypt to assist refugees, the report noted.

"I think it is way too soon to tell how this is going to play out. We are going to be ready and prepared to offer any kind of assistance that anyone wishes to have from the US," Clinton told reporters, noting Washington was in touch with the Libyan opposition.

Two senior US lawmakers urged Washington to recognize any transitional government and supply it with weapons and humanitarian assistance to oust Kadhafi, who has ruled Libya with an iron fist for four decades.

"We ought to recognize the provisional government as the legitimate government of Libya and we ought to give that government certainly humanitarian assistance and military arms... to give them the wherewithal to fight on behalf of the people of Libya against a cruel dictator," Senator Joe Lieberman told CNN.

Lieberman was speaking alongside Republican Senator John McCain from Egypt, where a popular uprising swept president Hosni Mubarak from power earlier this month after nearly 30 years of autocratic rule.

McCain urged Obama, his former rival in the 2008 presidential campaign, to "get tough" and make it clear that Libyan officials involved in attacks on their own people would face prosecution for war crimes.

The UN Security Council has imposed a travel ban and assets freeze on Kadhafi's regime and ordered an investigation into possible crimes against humanity by the Libyan leader, the first time such a decision has been made unanimously.

On Friday, Obama announced unilateral sanctions targeting Kadhafi and his inner circle in a move intended to encourage defections and peel away loyalists defending his rule.

Clinton has signed an order revoking the US visas of Libyan officials and others linked to the violence against civilians. New visas will now be denied as a matter of policy.

 

[Edward Campbell]

Just about the last thing Libya (or Tunisia or even Egypt and Bahrain, which "matter" much more) needs, right now, is foreign, especially US, intervention.

It is not clear who may end up running Libya, nor is it clear, to me anyway, why it matters a whole lot. We, the big, US led Western "we" and the even bigger Sino-Indo-American led "we" do care about Egypt and Bahrain and a few other places that are seething with discontent - Pakistan, too, maybe? - but not about Libya.

These populist movements may well bring on fundamentalist Islamist government - that was the result of the last really "free and fair" elections (1991) in relatively sophisticated Algeria. Libya has, for over 60 years, been behind its North African neighbours in most socio-economic measures; it depends upon Egypt and others for a steady supply of educated professional and technical people to "operate" the country. It is quite possible that a new military junta of some sort will take over and it may decide to reform and modernize the country - or it may decide that further decades of political repression and socio-economic stagnation are in Libya's best interests.

In any event, it is of little concern to us ... whoever "us" is.

 

[sean m]

With Respect,  Since you are a man with far more wisdom and knowledge and have contributed a lot more to our country and society as a whole than I . I feel your statment in regards to little concern to "us"  is not correct, I am understanding you correctly.  It seems to me that when ever political, social and other forms of opression do matter to us, since it threatens our security and the global community as well.  I think that this notion of "us" and " them"  is what has led to show much conflict in the world. We have the opportunity to help make the middle east better so I feel we should not jsut blow this opportunity away, like blowing out a candle. You are without a doubt right that any result for better or worse could come about in the country. lets at least work with all our might to help make sure that a positive result occurs.  Who ever could have thought the recent events in the middle east would have ever happened. If those individuals who over threw the regimesthere went with the mentality "what the government does is little concern to us.

Just about the last thing Libya (or Tunisia or even Egypt and Bahrain, which "matter" much more) needs, right now, is foreign, especially US, intervention.

It is not clear who may end up running Libya, nor is it clear, to me anyway, why it matters a whole lot. We, the big, US led Western "we" and the even bigger Sino-Indo-American led "we" do care about Egypt and Bahrain and a few other places that are seething with discontent - Pakistan, too, maybe? - but not about Libya.

These populist movements may well bring on fundamentalist Islamist government - that was the result of the last really "free and fair" elections (1991) in relatively sophisticated Algeria. Libya has, for over 60 years, been behind its North African neighbours in most socio-economic measures; it depends upon Egypt and others for a steady supply of educated professional and technical people to "operate" the country. It is quite possible that a new military junta of some sort will take over and it may decide to reform and modernize the country - or it may decide that further decades of political repression and socio-economic stagnation are in Libya's best interests.

In any event, it is of little concern to us ... whoever "us" is.