Trudeau Popularity - or not (various polling, etc.)

[dimsum]

All the young people want to enjoy the kind of life the city offers, which means living near the kind of life the city offers is expensive.

The obligation to pay for that belongs to the people who want to live it.

…yes?

I don’t think anyone here is arguing to subsidize the CoL of, say, Toronto, to match that of Kapuskasing. People know that it’s generally more expensive to live in cities.

I’d argue that it’s not just young people too. My parents, who have been here for over 40 years, won’t entertain leaving their big city because of access to their ethnic community.

 

[Retired AF Guy]

My observation of my farming family and friends is not that the kids are fleeing farming (some are) but that there are more kids than farms so some of the kids have to give up the farm life.

Another issue is debt transfer. Mum and Dad want to retire. They need to realize the capital gains accumulated on the farm to support their retirement. The kids need to be able to assume the debt and buy out the parents. They need to find financing.

Finding financing is difficult. And the farm that supported Mum and Dad's family will only support one of their kid's families. The other kids need to fund their own farms, or green houses, or agri-produce factories.

Back to productivity issues.

I understand the new rules the Liberals brought in governing capital gains may be throwing a spanner into that kind of thing.

 

[Brad Sallows]

…yes?

Seem to be a lot of people who want to live in the city complaining about the cost of living in the city. I'd love to live in the centre of Paris or London, but neither is really an option.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Perhaps not, but it can be fun watching people squirm as they try to square anti-immigrant sentiment with opposition to policies aimed at stimulating our domestic birth rate.

I guess I'm in the sweet spot. I favour limiting immigration until housing prices have stabilized long enough to be "affordable" again, and prefer adjusting to a stabilizing or slightly declining population.

 

[dimsum]

Seem to be a lot of people who want to live in the city complaining about the cost of living in the city. I'd love to live in the centre of Paris or London, but neither is really an option.

Like military members, there’s venting then there’s actually doing something about it. To me it’s like complaining about winter in Canada - everyone complains about it when it turns from fall to winter but how many people are actually moving away because of it?

Then there are those who moved away for lower CoL, realized they didn’t like the smaller towns/rural areas, and moved back. They could still be complaining about the cost of living but know that it’s a necessarily evil for their lifestyle.

 

[lenaitch]

Effort is what I want as well. That female should not be able to rely on my tax dollars to support her situation. That's an extended family problem. And I say again, we don't all make it. Life sucks home boy, and it sucks more for some. Make good choices.

Fair enough, but what if hubby is a dud, has gone off the radar, etc. Can't get blood from a stone. Do we, as a society, want a mom and kids livving on the street? Do we hunt down dad and toss him in debtors prison? It might make us feel better, but at the end of the day, she still needs support. 'Make good choices' is valid, but when the 'good choice' turns sour and the rug is pulled out from under your, what's next?

The problem is marriage and parenting don't require qualifications.

 

[dimsum]

Effort is what I want as well. That female should not be able to rely on my tax dollars to support her situation. That's an extended family problem. And I say again, we don't all make it. Life sucks home boy, and it sucks more for some. Make good choices.

“Sucks to suck” isn’t exactly the mark of a good society.

“Make good choices” is fine in hindsight and a nice quote, but I’m pretty sure no one gets married with a view to divorce. Plus, life and world events (like the 2008 GFC) have a say in people’s plans and choices.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Effort is what I want as well. That female should not be able to rely on my tax dollars to support her situation. That's an extended family problem. And I say again, we don't all make it. Life sucks home boy, and it sucks more for some. Make good choices.

In this case, both the man and woman were not terrible people, but divorce can get really bitter and while the court stuff flies, the money does not flow. They met early in life and after the breakup, she had no credit rating as everything had been in his name. He was a self employed contractor, so money was never steady.
I have met some women who just made sure they had another baby on the way to ensure the welfare continued.

 

[YZT580]

This
View attachment 86544

Or this
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There are a lot of under-employed people out there.

They could just as easily be operating a factory as serving cups of coffee. (Or looking after patients).

perhaps you forget. We learned to work pumping gas, washing cars or serving root beer. It was only after we developed a proper work ethic that we were able to get and more importantly hold a position in a factory, hospital or whatever. We desperately need entry level jobs the means to force (if necessary) our children into taking them. Better though to have brought them up with that ethic as part of every day life

 

[CBH99]

Given the subsequent price (inflationary) pressures, the off-the-books economy could very well be increasing. It doesn't depend entirely on cash.

I would argue this is probably the case.

Over the last few weeks, I've started taking Uber a lot more due to personal vehicle issues (Been reminded why never to take your car to a Canadian Tire for any sort of servicing...)

Every single Uber driver I've had has been an immigrant, and every single one of them were doing Uber as a side hustle. Or bouncing at local clubs. Or working fruit stands near busy parking lots.



All have been smart, charismatic, driven people who have realized that without a healthy salary & benefits, they have no choice but to work in the 'side hustle economy'

Given stagnant wages, an economy that has actually shrunk, low productivity, and the huge increase in cost of living - I'd reckon the off-the-books economy has been growing, and is destined to continue to do so

 

[Brad Sallows]

I would argue this is probably the case.

Over the last few weeks, I've started taking Uber a lot more due to personal vehicle issues (Been reminded why never to take your car to a Canadian Tire for any sort of servicing...)

Every single Uber driver I've had has been an immigrant, and every single one of them were doing Uber as a side hustle. Or bouncing at local clubs. Or working fruit stands near busy parking lots.



All have been smart, charismatic, driven people who have realized that without a healthy salary & benefits, they have no choice but to work in the 'side hustle economy'

Given stagnant wages, an economy that has actually shrunk, low productivity, and the huge increase in cost of living - I'd reckon the off-the-books economy has been growing, and is destined to continue to do so

Off-the-books means no transaction records. If they take debit/credit cards, they're not entirely off-the-books.

Someone who takes cash and opens the register without punching in the sale is providing off-the-books services. Someone who gives you a 10% discount for cash vs personal cheque or debit/credit is probably working off-the-books.

 

[CBH99]

I think it's very altruistic to want to help everyone, but I think that's a fools errand.

Some people will waste the opportunity of life in pursuit of various vices or activities and there is nothing we can do about that. We don't all make it, we don't all get to have happy lives, we are individually mostly responsible for that outcome.

I interpret that we encourage a disconnection from society and encourage a laziness when we expect those who put in effort and time to pay for those who don't. We provide a safety which tells them not to worry, the system will be there. Perhaps those who disconnect shouldnt have access to the social systems.

I see some validity in social services, but I also think they should be for those who contribute, by and large. With obvious exceptions for disabled and mentally challenged.

I know it's cold, but perhaps that's exactly what's missing.

It's not cold at all.

What it ultimately boils down to are basic mathematics (dollars coming into the state vs dollars paid out, re social services) and whether people fall into the categories of thinking the state should provide for all because society will be a 'better place', and those who think that those benefits should go towards the people who actually contribute towards said system


There will always be a debate between those who feel like the former option is better, and those who feel the latter option is better...there won't ever be a decisive win in that debate

But you don't sound cold.

 

[OldSolduer]

perhaps you forget. We learned to work pumping gas, washing cars or serving root beer. It was only after we developed a proper work ethic that we were able to get and more importantly hold a position in a factory, hospital or whatever. We desperately need entry level jobs the means to force (if necessary) our children into taking them. Better though to have brought them up with that ethic as part of every day life

Entry level jobs are super important. I agree with this.
My daughter started at a computer programming place at minimum wage. She got some training and became a lab tech (vampire genes).
She got some more qualifications and is now with the College of Physicians and Surgeons. And working on a infectious disease course. AND a single mom.
I guess Niner Domestic and I did a pretty good job.....wow.

 

[CBH99]

Entry level jobs are super important. I agree with this.
My daughter started at a computer programming place at minimum wage. She got some training and became a lab tech (vampire genes).
She got some more qualifications and is now with the College of Physicians and Surgeons. And working on a infectious disease course. AND a single mom.
I guess Niner Domestic and I did a pretty good job.....wow.

Damn right you did, wow indeed!

 

[Halifax Tar]

Sounds like you’re totally cool with far fewer “born in Canada” Canadians then. Just be prepared for what that means for sustaining our labour force long term. We’re gonna need someone working and paying in to sustain your CPP…

I'm not anti immigration. I think people should follow opportunity and work.

Only half the population can have kids. They can only have kids between the ages of 15 and 35.
Do you value their ability to produce kids?
I do.

Do I value motherhood ? If course I do. What a ridiculous question, I'm a father for God's sake.

But I also believe people and families need to be more self supporting and less reliant on the greater society.

Fair enough, but what if hubby is a dud, has gone off the radar, etc. Can't get blood from a stone. Do we, as a society, want a mom and kids livving on the street? Do we hunt down dad and toss him in debtors prison? It might make us feel better, but at the end of the day, she still needs support. 'Make good choices' is valid, but when the 'good choice' turns sour and the rug is pulled out from under your, what's next?

The problem is marriage and parenting don't require qualifications.

“Sucks to suck” isn’t exactly the mark of a good society.

“Make good choices” is fine in hindsight and a nice quote, but I’m pretty sure no one gets married with a view to divorce. Plus, life and world events (like the 2008 GFC) have a say in people’s plans and choices.

In this case, both the man and woman were not terrible people, but divorce can get really bitter and while the court stuff flies, the money does not flow. They met early in life and after the breakup, she had no credit rating as everything had been in his name. He was a self employed contractor, so money was never steady.
I have met some women who just made sure they had another baby on the way to ensure the welfare continued.

This is where the extended families part of my post come in.

 

[YZT580]

I'm not anti immigration. I think people should follow opportunity and work.

Currently missing from the equation. Hence all the UBER drivers with accents etc. There is a need to level the playing field. Stop discrimination against Cdn. borne European descended kids and give them equal opportunities. Starting perhaps with parents pushing them into taking that first job.

Do I value motherhood ? If course I do. What a ridiculous question, I'm a father for God's sake.

But I also believe people and families need to be more self supporting and less reliant on the greater society.

No argument there. But how do you take away people's "entitlements"? Much as I appreciate the notion of having government pay for my dental caps, I would rather wait and save a bit rather than watch another wasteful programme get established. You shouldn't have to pay for my cavities. Government needs to confine itself to trade matters, defense, and transportation issues with an established safety net to shore up those who are truly in need and yes, that would require a means test.





This is where the extended families part of my post come in.

 

[brihard]

Currently missing from the equation. Hence all the UBER drivers with accents etc. There is a need to level the playing field. Stop discrimination against Cdn. borne European descended kids and give them equal opportunities. Starting perhaps with parents pushing them into taking that first job.

Out of curiosity, what’s the basis for your claim that white Canadian-born kids are being discriminated against in the entry level job sector? Because in the next line you suggest it’s a matter of parents not pushing them to take that first job. I live in a pretty diverse suburb in a pretty diverse city, and I see plenty of white kids working entry level retail and food service locally. I’ll buy there being a lack of interest; I’d need to be convinced of a discriminatory lack of interest. And why are you making the claim applicable just to white Canadian borne kids? If the issue is abuse of TFWs by entry level employers, that logic would apply to all kids born in Canada, no?

 

[dimsum]

@YZT580 :

Uber drivers with accents doesn’t mean that Canadian-born European descended kids are being discriminated against. It’s probably unlikely that the Uber driver (who is probably doing this as a side hustle) wants to be an Uber driver. This is like the old “taxi driver who is a doctor back in the old country” trope again.

As for dental, it isn’t a separate thing from medical. Dental issues, left untreated, are medical issues. This mental divide in most of the world is baffling to me (with family in both fields).

 

[FSTO]

Another issue is debt transfer. Mum and Dad want to retire. They need to realize the capital gains accumulated on the farm to support their retirement. The kids need to be able to assume the debt and buy out the parents. They need to find financing.

I havent asked my brother how he’s transferring the farm to his son, but I’m assuming that since they incorporated the farm years ago, he’s is the retiring CEO and will get a pension from the firm as my nephew assumes the duties as CEO.

 

[Remius]

@YZT580 “Currently missing from the equation. Hence all the UBER drivers with accents etc. There is a need to level the playing field. Stop discrimination against Cdn. borne European descended kids and give them equal opportunities. Starting perhaps with parents pushing them into taking that first job”

Anecdotal on my part: I had to deal with my son who was trying to be Peter Pan and never grow up. COVID didn’t help but it took me cutting off various financial incentives for him to go get that first job. Cut off his cell phone, turned off the internet at home during the day between work hours, stopped driving him around and stopped paying for his extra curriculars. He had no issues finding an entry level job in the service industry despite being male and caucasian.

Making money, even minimum wage money, that he could do with as he pleased gave him a bit more independence and motivation to work. (My issue now is what he’s spending his money on and lack of saving said money but that is another story lol)