Transgender in the CF (merged)

[NSDreamer]

There is no official policy (yet) but this is generally approached in stages.

Sorry to cut in, but there is an official policy, announced in CANFORGEN 031/12 CMP 017/12 081428Z FEB 12

CF Mil Pers Instr 01/11 Management of Transsexual Members outlays the expectations of CAF Members and management in relation to transgendered persons, dictates where the areas of responsibility lay, and who is in charge of making case by case decisions as it is important to note many transitioning cases are different.

See DWAN Link: http://cmp-cpm.mil.ca/assets/CMP_Intranet/docs/en/support/policies/cmp-milpersinstr-0111.pdf

 

[Andraste]

Sorry to cut in, but there is an official policy, announced in CANFORGEN 031/12 CMP 017/12 081428Z FEB 12

Hi NSDreamer,

You are correct . . . there is an instruction but it is sorely outdated. The policy is in rewrite as we speak. I should have been a bit more specific in my response when I said "there is not policy". I was referring to specific guidelines regarding accessing gender specific spaces (e.g., bathrooms/change rooms). Right now the current instruction leaves it up to a case by case in consult with the member and the CO. Upcoming changes to the policy will have specific guidelines in keeping with current legislation on the use of gender specific spaces and transgender people.  Sorry about that 

Cheers

Andraste

 

[Lumber]

Hi NSDreamer,

You are correct . . . there is an instruction but it is sorely outdated. The policy is in rewrite as we speak. I should have been a bit more specific in my response when I said "there is not policy". I was referring to specific guidelines regarding accessing gender specific spaces (e.g., bathrooms/change rooms). Right now the current instruction leaves it up to a case by case in consult with the member and the CO. Upcoming changes to the policy will have specific guidelines in keeping with current legislation on the use of gender specific spaces and transgender people.  Sorry about that 

Cheers

Andraste

Andraste, quick question:

Does the term "transitioning" mean that they are transitioning surgically, or does it mean any level of transition, such as beginning to adopt the other gender's pronouns, perhaps clothing or other traditionally binary things of the opposite gender?

 

[Andraste]

Andraste, quick question:

Does the term "transitioning" mean that they are transitioning surgically, or does it mean any level of transition, such as beginning to adopt the other gender's pronouns, perhaps clothing or other traditionally binary things of the opposite gender?

Hi Lumber,

I can provide you with my concept of ops but it may differ from others in the community:

Transitioning is the process of reconciling one’s gender expression with one’s internal sense of gender (gender identity).  This may include any or all of the following: (1) social transition; (2) legal transition; and (3)medical transition.

Social Transition: refers to a number of changes that can be made in a trans person's social life and situation, including: (1) use of a different name; (2) use of different gender pronouns; (3) surface changes to physical appearance (e.g., dressing in the preferred style, adopting a different hairstyle, use of make-up).

Legal Transition: refers to taking legal steps to be recognized as the target gender, including: (1) legal name change; and (2) legal change of gender maker and name on identification documents (e.g., CAF ID, passport, driver's licence).

Medical Transition: refers to medical interventions used to reconcile physical characteristics with those of the target gender. This may include hormone replacement therapy (HRT), cosmetic surgery (e.g., breast augmentation, double mastectomy) and/or gender affirming surgery (GAS).

Not all transitions are the same. Specifically, there is no checklist which you must follow in order to "transition". Some folks will socially and legally transition but never medically transition. Others might medically transition but only so far as HRT and never under GAS/GCS.

I hope this answers your question.

Cheers

Andraste

 

[Lumber]

Hi Lumber,

I can provide you with my concept of ops but it may differ from others in the community:

Transitioning is the process of reconciling one’s gender expression with one’s internal sense of gender (gender identity).  This may include any or all of the following: (1) social transition; (2) legal transition; and (3)medical transition.

Social Transition: refers to a number of changes that can be made in a trans person's social life and situation, including: (1) use of a different name; (2) use of different gender pronouns; (3) surface changes to physical appearance (e.g., dressing in the preferred style, adopting a different hairstyle, use of make-up).

Legal Transition: refers to taking legal steps to be recognized as the target gender, including: (1) legal name change; and (2) legal change of gender maker and name on identification documents (e.g., CAF ID, passport, driver's licence).

Medical Transition: refers to medical interventions used to reconcile physical characteristics with those of the target gender. This may include hormone replacement therapy (HRT), cosmetic surgery (e.g., breast augmentation, double mastectomy) and/or gender affirming surgery (GAS).

Not all transitions are the same. Specifically, there is no checklist which you must follow in order to "transition". Some folks will socially and legally transition but never medically transition. Others might medically transition but only so far as HRT and never under GAS/GCS.

I hope this answers your question.

Cheers

Andraste

Thanks, Andraste. It does answer my question.

I actually had an original question which was "does the CAF policy differentiate how they treat transgendered members based on whether they are pre, post, or currently transitioning", and then I realized that I had no idea what transitioning actually meant, so thank you for elaborating.

 

[NSDreamer]

Hi NSDreamer,

You are correct . . . there is an instruction but it is sorely outdated. The policy is in rewrite as we speak. I should have been a bit more specific in my response when I said "there is not policy". I was referring to specific guidelines regarding accessing gender specific spaces (e.g., bathrooms/change rooms). Right now the current instruction leaves it up to a case by case in consult with the member and the CO. Upcoming changes to the policy will have specific guidelines in keeping with current legislation on the use of gender specific spaces and transgender people.  Sorry about that 

No worries, it is still in effect, but I imagine they are looking at a rewrite. As someone with TG folks under my command, it's certainly a tricky subject to balance everyones needs and support the member. It's harsh to say it, but it's much easier when the TG member is post OP. That being said, I've been often extremely heartened to see the level of support these members get! I've had no one come out and say a negative word, though that might be because they're worried about what I'd do to them if they did!

 

[PuckChaser]

You are correct . . . there is an instruction but it is sorely outdated. The policy is in rewrite as we speak.

An instruction outdated? In the CAF? Colour me not surprised. The transgender policy rewrite will probably be the fastest I've ever seen in my almost 2 decades of service if it is in fact in rewrite mode (which could means years away from issue).

 

[kev994]

For comparison, in DoD policy the transition is a state of mind, the body parts are immaterial. Someone can be fully transitioned but never get surgery.

 

[daftandbarmy]

For comparison, in DoD policy the transition is a state of mind, the body parts are immaterial. Someone can be fully transitioned but never get surgery.

As long as they don't fall out on the 20 miler....

 

[RogueSig]

So, has anyone heard any rumors about when the updated orders might be published? The latest I heard was a news article suggesting this fall. I know that deadlines are rarely accurate in our business, but I had heard the re-write was started over a year ago...

 

[serenamorrow]

Hello, since there is a merged thread for these sort of topics, figure it would be better to post this here...

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/brantford-transgender-military-rejection-1.4570379

There are key details missing about the case, with some assumptions being made, and only CBC is covering it at the moment.

First impression is lack of consensus on what is 'transitioning' between the individual and CF medical recruitment policy, as well lack understanding of the enrollment medical process on the individuals part.

What is the individual's status legally, socially, and medically? They would not be considered "transitioned" if any of these are not completed to the strictest sense. After that, how long was it since any of these were completed, especially medically?  Among some, one can consider themselves or another 'transitioned' by living as their gender all of the time and been on hormones for a few years or less, without getting the GRS surgery and/or changing their legal status. Everything I have read, CF medical enrollment requires at minimum the completed surgery and and legal status change. 'Social' is covered by remaining policies, rules, and such.

Now, if the individual transitioned completely in all three, then there may be disconnect between them and CF Medical, such as lack of sufficient and clear medical documentation covering their status, and/or lack of experience with dealing with trans applicants. Latter make sense if there as been no known trans applicants that been accepted and given a job offer, and the trans policy/guidelines does not cover enrollment in relation to other policies/guidelines like the Universality of Service. The former can happen if the individual did not include psych and medical letters confirming their 'transition' has being completed and no longer 'suffering' from gender dysphoria...same ones you need to get GRS surgery in Canada. Both scenarios, or mix of, can explain the quoted text of the rejection letter.

Another possibility..is it the reserve unit's medical have final say on the medical side of an application, or CF Medical in Ottawa? Maybe reserve unit not entirely on board or informed with the transgender policy?

As for the Universality of Service, unless it requires that all applicants are not to be on any medication, a hormone like Estradiol can be an injection which can last up to 3-4 weeks, or pill form that needs to be taken daily. Either case, by itself, only medical support needed is supply, and then regular check up (every six to twelve months at least) to make sure the estrogen hormone levels are still at female average. This is the case for either cis or trans women to treat menopause or hormonal imbalance.

In the end, the Canadian Forces does not owe anyone a job. From the article, the individual appears to have not followed up on all appeal process options before going to CBC and attempt to make it seem like the CF welcoming transgender recruits has a lie.

Anyway, thank you. Let me know if I have overstepped with this. 

 

[PuckChaser]

We make people wait 6 months after having laser eye surgery, yet it's somehow a massive human rights issue that we don't want to take on someone in the middle of a medical procedure? What's next? You can show up with a blown out ACL and just have the CAF take over your care?

 

[Jarnhamar]

[quote author=PuckChaser]What's next? You can show up with a blown out ACL and just have the CAF take over your care?
[/quote]
Yes 


I was going to comment on not losing sleep over someone whose driving purpose to join the CAF appears to be to fuck off the US President BUT the CAF asked for this after that stupid tweet we put out in response to the US.

I'm surprised our PM hasn't tweeted about this, it's early though.

"While the applicants are going through the transformation between the two genders, while they're in the process, they will be found medically unfit to join the forces,"

That seems like a very intelligent policy. I hope the CAF sticks too it but I wouldn't hold my breath.

 

[ArmyRick]

Agreed jarnhamar. This person has stated no real desire to join but rather join because of a decision Trump made in his country.

Now, lets put our efforts into people who want to be soldiers, sailors and airman (oops airpeople?)

 

[Lumber]

airman (oops airpeople?)

Aviators.

 

[Strike]

According to the CBC report, the doctor (who is also transgender) stated that she had finished her transition and was only on hormones.

So, my question is, how long ago was she considered as "complete" with her transition?  More than 6 month?  That seems to be the standard wrt medical issues.  Also, is estrogen one of those medications that would preclude enrollment?  What would be the side effects if the candidate were to go off these hormones for 6 months?

The counter argument would be that women who have gone through early menopause or had a full hysterectomy (ovaries included) would also have to take estrogen.  Are they also then ineligible to join?

Generally, people joining up who are on any kind of prescription have to have proof that they can function for a minimum of six months without their medication.  I've seen it a number of times - people with ADHD, chronic migraines, etc.

But the issue is, pretty much ever transgender is on hormones of some type.  If this is going to prevent them from enrolling then maybe we need to stop trying to recruit them.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Bit off topic but serious question. Speaking of hormones will the military give me testosterone pills (or whatever)to help build and maintain muscles since my job requires a lot of heavy lifting, carrying around 100+lb backpacks and physical endurance/hardships. Men creeping up to middle age don't produce as much testosterone.  It seems just as good a reason as someone who's receiving testosterone treatment from the CAF medical system for transitioning genders, no?

 

[PuckChaser]

Bit off topic but serious question. Speaking of hormones will the military give me testosterone pills (or whatever)to help build and maintain muscles since my job requires a lot of heavy lifting, carrying around 100+lb backpacks and physical endurance/hardships. Men creeping up to middle age don't produce as much testosterone.  It seems just as good a reason as someone who's receiving testosterone treatment from the CAF medical system for transitioning genders, no?

Difference is, you're already in and trained and the CAF spectrum of care is responsible for you. They're trying to protect an asset with years of training and experience.

 

[Strike]

Bit off topic but serious question. Speaking of hormones will the military give me testosterone pills (or whatever)to help build and maintain muscles since my job requires a lot of heavy lifting, carrying around 100+lb backpacks and physical endurance/hardships. Men creeping up to middle age don't produce as much testosterone.  It seems just as good a reason as someone who's receiving testosterone treatment from the CAF medical system for transitioning genders, no?

You would be better served comparing it to hormone treatment for women, which you can't compare anyway.  Women are put on HRT to reduce menopause symptoms are the chances of endometrial cancer after a hysterectomy.

I doubt getting old is a reason to go on hormone therapy...but you already knew that I'm sure.  :

 

[sarahsmom]

Bit off topic but serious question. Speaking of hormones will the military give me testosterone pills (or whatever)to help build and maintain muscles since my job requires a lot of heavy lifting, carrying around 100+lb backpacks and physical endurance/hardships. Men creeping up to middle age don't produce as much testosterone.  It seems just as good a reason as someone who's receiving testosterone treatment from the CAF medical system for transitioning genders, no?

The military will only give you testosterone pills/gel/shots/etc IF your testosterone levels are low as seen in your bloodwork.
And you will only be prescribed what correlates to your results. We have had a few members at our clinic want more because when they get their shots they feel good, like superman. So more is better in their minds.