Train travel

[time expired]

I wondered whether train travel is making any progress in Canada?,here in Germany its really
turning into a viable alternative to driving your car,particularly for pleasure trips on weekends.
For example,for 25 euros you can go anywhere in Baden-Württemberg with up to 5 people,
just pack up your mountain bike and away you go.I remember Transcontinental trains in Canada
with fond memory's,paid by DND ,it was a great way to cross the country,slow but very very
comfortable.
                                Regards

 

[formerarmybrat23]

i think its pretty horrible. train takes longer and is more expenisve. and im not talking about getting a 1 bedroom or a double. just the cheapest seats you can get. i travelled by train when i was small. when i was planning on moving to vancouver from new brunswick i thought the train would be a wonderful way to go. well it costs about 1200 dollars and takes about a week and a half. no thanks. even a 3 hour trip from hinton to edmonton was 250. no thanks.

 

[armyvern]

Time Expired,

I agree with you that train travel in Europe (vice just Germany) is much more advanced and low-cost than here in Canada.

As a kid in Germany, it was so easy to hop a train and take off to Switzerland to see the Stones in concert, head to Freiberg to pick up Mistletoe at the market during Christmas, or even head over to Strasbourg for an opera, play or ballet. As much as I'd love to see that freedom of travel here in a cost efficient manner that would rival automobiles; I just don't think the situations are comparable.

Many Europes fit into one Canada. The land mass of Continental Europe just can not compare with the land mass of this Nation. Yet, this Nations population, and thus tax base, just does not compare with that which is available in Europe.

There have been advances here in green travel, yet it will be a very long time before Canada will have any common rail or other transport system which can rival that of Europe. Perhaps when our population, thus tax base to pay for it all, is equal to that of Europe's population per square Km of land mass, we will see like progress.

Until then, it simply isn't economically feasible or efficient when huge parts of our population live in rural areas vice urban centres. In Europe, if one live rurally, one still lives quite close to the nearest big city, that's just not the case here where some of our rural population lives 100s of kilometres from the nearest city centre.

 

[observor 69]

My wife needed to go from Toronto to Saint John NB in April to visit family.  Her experience is a good example of the limited and expensive service found in the less populous areas of Canada.
Her options:
Rail - only to Moncton and very expensive, and then rent a car to get to Saint John.
Bus  - forget it unless you have a lot of time to spend, about two days to Saint John and another two days back,, plus the discomfort of sleeping overnight on a bus.
Plane-  In April it is Air Canada take it or leave it. You could fly to Britian and back for the price of a return ticket to Saint John. West Jet has started up flights for June, July and August, picking off the cream travel time, but they are only slightly less costly than Air Canada.
What did she do? Drove down on a Thursday in 14 hours and back on Monday another 14 hours, including the broken up road from Quebec to Edmonston. She is a shift worker and was only able to get a long weekend to travel. 
The good news , we have a nice 2004 Mazda 3 with cruise control and CD radio. Average gas consumption 32 mpg.

 

[time expired]

Folks, don't get me wrong,I am not making unfavourable comparisons,its just that I thought
the Montreal,Toronto,Windsor corridor would make an ideal high speed train route.The French
Railways recently set the Worlds record at 525 kph,but the routine speed is 300kph.At those
speeds the airlines are slower downtown to downtown.
                                        Regards

 

[George Wallace]

Unfortunately, Canada has let it's Railroads fall apart since the 1960's.  Downtown Railway Stations have all but disappeared.  Many cities have seen their railyards disappear and their Stations replaced by ACCO trailers on the outskirts of town.  St John New Brunswick is one such example.  Ottawa has moved its Station outside of the city core, as has cities like Saskatoon.  Some cities are only "Whistle Stops" these days.  The Windsor - Quebec corridor is the only regular passenger service left, and it is no comparison to the efficient European Rail Systems. 

The old Transcontinentals are very rare and very expensive.

Sadly, it is not likely to become anything like its' European cousins.

 

[observor 69]

Unfortunately, Canada has let it's Railroads fall apart since the 1960's.  Downtown Railway Stations have all but disappeared.  Many cities have seen their railyards disappear and their Stations replaced by ACCO trailers on the outskirts of town.  St John New Brunswick is one such example.  Ottawa has moved its Station outside of the city core, as has cities like Saskatoon.  Some cities are only "Whistle Stops" these days.  The Windsor - Quebec corridor is the only regular passenger service left, and it is no comparison to the efficient European Rail Systems. 

The old Transcontinentals are very rare and very expensive.

Sadly, it is not likely to become anything like its' European cousins.

http://new-brunswick.net/Saint_John/enter.html
http://www.stjohns.ca/index.jsp          ;D

 

[steveyb4342]

I have taken a train to three places. Halifax to Truro. Halifax to Moncton. Halifax to Montreal. Truro was no sweat and I thought it was kinda amusing however I like higher speeds than a train can attain. Halifax to Moncton wasnt to bad mainly because I hit my head and passed out so I dont remember lol. Halifax to Montreal..... I will NEVER take a train again in my life! I HATE trains! I love planes and cars lol.

                                                                Steve

 

[I_am_John_Galt]

My wife needed to go from Toronto to Saint John NB in April to visit family.  Her experience is a good example of the limited and expensive service found in the less populous areas of Canada.
Her options:
Rail - only to Moncton and very expensive, and then rent a car to get to Saint John.
Bus  - forget it unless you have a lot of time to spend, about two days to Saint John and another two days back,, plus the discomfort of sleeping overnight on a bus.
Plane-  In April it is Air Canada take it or leave it. You could fly to Britian and back for the price of a return ticket to Saint John. West Jet has started up flights for June, July and August, picking off the cream travel time, but they are only slightly less costly than Air Canada.
What did she do? Drove down on a Thursday in 14 hours and back on Monday another 14 hours, including the broken up road from Quebec to Edmonston. She is a shift worker and was only able to get a long weekend to travel. 
The good news , we have a nice 2004 Mazda 3 with cruise control and CD radio. Average gas consumption 32 mpg.

That's because we (as tapayers and air travellers) tax the hell out of air (and road) travel and subsidize rail travel: rail travel no longer makes much sense in Canada ... it is far to slow and inconvenient, given how spread-out the country is.  I suspect too that rail travel in Europe is far more expensive than the price you pay for a ticket.

 

[midget-boyd91]

Reading these posts and I get the feeling that most people here don't like trains for travel. Are these accounts just purely work related travel or using trains as an alternative to cars/planes? Wondering because I have been planning on taking a train across Canada (to see Canada) in the summer of '08. Does anyone here discourage taking a trip like said one, or encourage one?

 

[I_am_John_Galt]

Reading these posts and I get the feeling that most people here don't like trains for travel. Are these accounts just purely work related travel or using trains as an alternative to cars/planes? Wondering because I have been planning on taking a train across Canada (to see Canada) in the summer of '08. Does anyone here discourage taking a trip like said one, or encourage one?

It's a unique and interesting way to see (part of) the country, particularly if you are interested in the historical context.  OTOH, if you are looking to get across the country is can be really slow, boring and expensive.  Personally, I'd rather do it by car, if the idea is about sightseeing ...

 

[George Wallace]

That's because we (as tapayers and air travellers) tax the hell out of air (and road) travel and subsidize rail travel: rail travel no longer makes much sense in Canada ... it is far to slow and inconvenient, given how spread-out the country is. 

Rail travel in Canada subsidized?  Since when?  It is very expensive.  So if it is subsidized, what would it cost if it wasn't?

A seven or eight day train ride across Canada would be a blast.  You can walk around, go to a dinning car, go to a Bar Car, or sit in a Dome Car and watch the scenery.  You can get a 'suite' with your own washroom, and bed or travel on a budget and just have a reclining seat like on the plane, but with more room.  It is not a trip for someone who is constantly in a rush.  Relax.  Enjoy the scenery.  The Railroads still offer Tourist Packages, that include stays/stopovers in places like Toronto, Calgary and Banff.

The Railroads in Canada, just aren't what they used to be, nor what their true potential could make them.

Europe, with its' larger population, and shorter commutes, have made their rail system into quite an efficient tranportation mode.

 

[observor 69]

Some interesing info at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VIA_Rail

VIA Rail

 

[I_am_John_Galt]

Rail travel in Canada subsidized?  Since when?  It is very expensive.  So if it is subsidized, what would it cost if it wasn't?

The railroads in Canada is one of the most heavily subsidized industries of any kind in any (industrialized) country: I'm too lazy to look up the numbers right now, but VIA is something like 1/3 Operating Revenues and 80% of Capital Expenditures (are direct GoC subsidy) ... this doesn't count the handouts to companies like Bombardier and is nothing compared to freight.

 

[midget-boyd91]

It's a unique and interesting way to see (part of) the country, particularly if you are interested in the historical context.  OTOH, if you are looking to get across the country is can be really slow, boring and expensive.  Personally, I'd rather do it by car, if the idea is about sightseeing ...

The parts I want to see the most are back out west in the rockies. My memories of BC are fading as I was only 7 or 8 when I moved out here (NS). Driving through the rockies while we were moving out here I do remember more than most (the waterfalls, rivers and taking a leak in the rapids ^-^).  So would it almost be a wiser decision to drive out to the western ends of the prairies and then take trains out to the coast from there? (I'm not trying to get anyone here to plan the whole thing for me, I just want to be able to have it planned in advance in the ways some of you think would be the best )

 

[I_am_John_Galt]

The parts I want to see the most are back out west in the rockies. My memories of BC are fading as I was only 7 or 8 when I moved out here (NS). Driving through the rockies while we were moving out here I do remember more than most (the waterfalls, rivers and taking a leak in the rapids ^-^).  So would it almost be a wiser decision to drive out to the western ends of the prairies and then take trains out to the coast from there? (I'm not trying to get anyone here to plan the whole thing for me, I just want to be able to have it planned in advance in the ways some of you think would be the best )

Well, you can sleep in your car through the prairies (hah-hah!) ... people say the train ride through the rockies is amazing, but if you want to go hiking, camping or see things like hot springs and little towns (that aren't overrun with tourists) of course you'll want a car ... I'd drive, but that's just me. 

 

[George Wallace]

The railroads in Canada is one of the most heavily subsidized industries of any kind in any (industrialized) country: I'm too lazy to look up the numbers right now, but VIA is something like 1/3 Operating Revenues and 80% of Capital Expenditures (are direct GoC subsidy) ... this doesn't count the handouts to companies like Bombardier and is nothing compared to freight.

True, but one could also argue that the subsidies to the Trucking Industry far out rank those to the Railroads and have also contributed significantly to the demise of the Railroads.

 

[observor 69]

True, but one could also argue that the subsidies to the Trucking Industry far out rank those to the Railroads and have also contributed significantly to the demise of the Railroads.

Part of the old argument that the railway has to pay for their road but the trucking industry gets theirs paid for by the government.

 

[Samsquanch]

There have been advances here in green travel, yet it will be a very long time before Canada will have any common rail or other transport system which can rival that of Europe. Perhaps when our population, thus tax base to pay for it all, is equal to that of Europe's population per square Km of land mass, we will see like progress.

Until then, it simply isn't economically feasible or efficient when huge parts of our population live in rural areas vice urban centres. In Europe, if one live rurally, one still lives quite close to the nearest big city, that's just not the case here where some of our rural population lives 100s of kilometres from the nearest city centre.

The Librarian hit the nail on the head with this one. Civi side I'm a train conductor it just doesn't make sense unless the area is heavily populated. It could work in the east but not out here in the west or central Canada at the moment. Within cities we are seeing more commuters using passenger service to avoid parking fees and gas prices, but between cities and provinces there isn't enough need to warrent the additional costs of infrastructure. Individual railroads are not being subsidized by the gov. to increase capacity on existing routes let along separate ones for passenger. Our existing infrastructure is very old and has been neglected for many years.

 

[TCBF]

The railroads have been trying to get out of the non-profitable passenger routes for years.  Thunder Bay was once served by the daily "The Canadian" milk run, but now has no pax service at all - a city of 117,000 that you cannot take the train to unless you strap yourself to a pallet of cargo.

It would be nice if we could have hi-speed cross country rail OR a hi-speed cross country autobahn.  We have neither.