Toronto Mayor Rob Ford

[Fishbone Jones]

>Let's root them out too

Agreed.  But only if they do, in fact, get rooted out; unilateral political disarmament is foolish.  The BC NDP should have outcast Adrian Dix entirely, but instead they made him leader of their party.  Apparently, there are different standards for acceptable behaviour on the political left and right in Canada.

[sarcasm] Seriously? The way people are going on, I thought Rob Ford was the exclusive contravener for law breaking politicians in Canada. Heaven forbid that there are blackguards in the other parties  : [/sarcasm]

Agreed Brad,

It's not a matter that if everyone does it, it's ok. Rather any politician found breaking the criminal code should be thrown out.

Good for the goose, good for the gander. Ford gets tossed for crack, Trudeau should get tossed for marijuana. It's not about the substance, it's about breaking the law as it is written and stands at the time. They don't get to choose what laws they break.

Any politician breaking the law is not fit to serve. Drugs? Gone. DUI? Gone. Assault? Gone. Theft? Bribery? Tax evasion? Gone. Ad nauseum.

And no, they can't run again after completing their time\ fine and a 12 step program.

There has to be consequences to the actions and we shouldn't be debating who gets a buy.

 

[The_Falcon]

[sarcasm] Seriously? The way people are going on, I thought Rob Ford was the exclusive contravener for law breaking politicians in Canada. Heaven forbid that there are blackguards in the other parties  : [/sarcasm]

Agreed Brad,

It's not a matter that if everyone does it, it's ok. Rather any politician found breaking the criminal code should be thrown out.

Good for the goose, good for the gander. Ford gets tossed for crack, Trudeau should get tossed for marijuana. It's not about the substance, it's about breaking the law as it is written and stands at the time. They don't get to choose what laws they break.

Any politician breaking the law is not fit to serve. Drugs? Gone. DUI? Gone. Assault? Gone. Theft? Bribery? Tax evasion? Gone. Ad nauseum.

And no, they can't run again after completing their time\ fine and a 12 step program.

There has to be consequences to the actions and we shouldn't be debating who gets a buy.

I am pretty sure I said the exact same thing a few pages ago.  If you are convicted, or are dumb enough to admit it in public, that you broke criminal law then no politics for you.

 

[pbi]

>Let's root them out too

Agreed.  But only if they do, in fact, get rooted out; unilateral political disarmament is foolish.  The BC NDP should have outcast Adrian Dix entirely, but instead they made him leader of their party.  Apparently, there are different standards for acceptable behaviour on the political left and right in Canada.

No doubt in many peoples' minds this is so, but we are hypocrites if we indulge in it. (Although I dare say you find more of it the farther out to the political flanks you get)

I don't care: I want better.

Political misbehaviour, malfeasance and just plain stupidity are bad. The higher up the scale of government you go, the worse the consequences of these become. We need better tools to deal with these rotters. This is why I like the voter recall system that exists in some US states (and in BC, but not quite in the same way, I think...).

Interestingly, as far as I can tell, US voter recall is quite popular on the conservative end of the scale and less so on the liberal end. For example, IIRC it got Arnie into office in California as Gubernator.

 

[pbi]

I am pretty sure I said the exact same thing a few pages ago.  If you are convicted, or are dumb enough to admit it in public, that you broke criminal law then no politics for you.

With you on that.

 

[Nemo888]

>Let's root them out too

Agreed.  But only if they do, in fact, get rooted out; unilateral political disarmament is foolish.  The BC NDP should have outcast Adrian Dix entirely, but instead they made him leader of their party.  Apparently, there are different standards for acceptable behaviour on the political left and right in Canada.

I thought it was always, "the right looks for converts and the left looks for traitors."  You can't really call the Liberals left. Opportunism blows with the wind. Which really applies to all the parties now. The ideology is window dressing. The real customers are the donors, not the voters.

 

[The_Falcon]

No doubt in many peoples' minds this is so, but we are hypocrites if we indulge in it. (Although I dare say you find more of it the farther out to the political flanks you get)

I don't care: I want better.

Political misbehaviour, malfeasance and just plain stupidity are bad. The higher up the scale of government you go, the worse the consequences of these become. We need better tools to deal with these rotters. This is why I like the voter recall system that exists in some US states (and in BC, but not quite in the same way, I think...).

Interestingly, as far as I can tell, US voter recall is quite popular on the conservative end of the scale and less so on the liberal end. For example, IIRC it got Arnie into office in California as Gubernator.

It is, and he actually earned the ire of many in the Republican establishment, because he's not really a hardcore conservative, he's like a red Tory.  His book Total Recall, is an interesting look at the inner working of US politics (and yes I am very aware that alot of it is pretty self serving, a humble guy he is not, but being humble doesn't get you from where he came from to where he is now.).

 

[pbi]

This is what the State of California says about Recall:
http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/.const/.article_2

The relevant part states:

CALIFORNIA CONSTITUTION
ARTICLE 2  VOTING, INITIATIVE AND REFERENDUM, AND RECALL

SEC. 13.  Recall is the power of the electors to remove an elective
officer.
CALIFORNIA CONSTITUTION
ARTICLE 2  VOTING, INITIATIVE AND REFERENDUM, AND RECALL

SEC. 14.  (a) Recall of a state officer is initiated by delivering
to the Secretary of State a petition alleging reason for recall.
Sufficiency of reason is not reviewable. Proponents have 160 days to
file signed petitions.
  (b) A petition to recall a statewide officer must be signed by
electors equal in number to 12 percent of the last vote for the
office, with signatures from each of 5 counties equal in number to 1
percent of the last vote for the office in the county. Signatures to
recall Senators, members of the Assembly, members of the Board of
Equalization, and judges of courts of appeal and trial courts must
equal in number 20 percent of the last vote for the office.
  (c) The Secretary of State shall maintain a continuous count of
the signatures certified to that office.

Note that the reason for recall apparently can't be questioned. While I agree in principle with recall, I'm surprised Americans would be willing to go with such low percentage requirements. I don't think that would be acceptable here.

Here is a link to the BC "Recall and Initiative Act". It appears to focus only on MLAs.

http://www.bclaws.ca/EPLibraries/bclaws_new/document/LOC/freeside/--%20R%20--/Recall%20and%20Initiative%20Act%20RSBC%201996%20c.%20398/00_Act/96398_03.xml#part3_division1

The BC Act requires that a recall petition have the signatures of 40% of registered voters in the MLA's riding. If this result is certified by the Chief Electoral Officer, the MLA must vacate the seat and then a by-election is normally called.

IMHO 40% is still much too low: I would suggest at least 51% and probably more like 60%, in order to avoid frivolous attempts, or factional struggles.

The US states seem to vary: in some you can recall almost any elected official including municipal. In most cases (maybe all...) the State's highest court retains some check and balance power. In a number of cases recalls have been overturned or defeated.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Funny how the media never mentions Montreal in their comparisons.

In a little more than half a year, Montreal mayor Gérald Tremblay resigned after allegations about illegal fundraising, and now his replacement is facing replacement.

Only last fall, Mr. Applebaum was portraying himself as a reforming white knight promising to tackle the corruption that has cost taxpayers millions and sapped the trust of a cynical electorate. “I solemnly vow that I will erase this stain on our city,” he said as he became interim mayor of Canada’s second-largest city, taking over from Mr. Tremblay.

Today, the crusader finds himself under the weight of criminal charges. Mr. Applebaum is charged with 14 criminal counts, including conspiracy, fraud and breach of trust

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/montreal-mayor-michael-applebaum-arrested/article12595439/

 

[pbi]

Funny how the media never mentions Montreal in their comparisons.

Not quite the same situation. The first guy resigned (unlike Ford) and Applebaum has actually been charged (again, unlike Ford).

I'm not sure its fair to say the "media never mentions Montreal..." Where did this info come from if not from the media? I have been following the entire Quebec corruption mess pretty steadily on the CBC, same as for Joe Fontana in London.

 

[mariomike]

Politics aside, as a matter of public safety, I believe Council made a reasonable decision in delegating the "Mayor’s powers in emergencies" to Deputy Mayor Kelly.

( Under the City of Toronto Act, the Mayor still has the authority to declare a State of Emergency. )

 

[pbi]

( Under the City of Toronto Act, the Mayor still has the authority to declare a State of Emergency. )

Ha! If he hasn't done that yet, he never will!

 

[dapaterson]

Ha! If he hasn't done that yet, he never will!

Well, I don't think it's snowing...

 

[observor 69]

Wait for it.....
"Rob Ford the Movie"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUY6lDja-DE&feature=youtu.be 

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Not quite the same situation. The first guy resigned (unlike Ford) and Applebaum has actually been charged (again, unlike Ford).

I'm not sure its fair to say the "media never mentions Montreal..." Where did this info come from if not from the media? I have been following the entire Quebec corruption mess pretty steadily on the CBC, same as for Joe Fontana in London.

However I never see the media compare the two, out here we hear nothing except the Rob Ford stuff and seems the local media has totally forgotten about the crap that goes on in Montreal, which in my mind is far more insidious than what Toronto is dealing with.

 

[Remius]

However I never see the media compare the two, out here we hear nothing except the Rob Ford stuff and seems the local media has totally forgotten about the crap that goes on in Montreal, which in my mind is far more insidious than what Toronto is dealing with.

The media in Quebec has been all over this.

It may be that Quebec issues tend to not really interest anyone outside that province.  When that all broke there was significant coverage but it all sort of came out.  Nothing to follow up on.

Toronto is more internationally known, the Mayor already bombastic, the existance or not of a video (prompting even more curiosity) and the fact that Mayor ford keeps bringing attention to himself.  Most local Quebec media seem to cover Ford as much as Ontario local media cover the Quebec mayoral scandals.

 

[George Wallace]

So, for Quebecers a "Bombastic Druggie Ontario Mayor" is worse than a "Mafia Linked Quebec Mayor"?    :-\

 

[Remius]

No, it's probably more akin to "We don't give a rats a** about Toronto's mayor as he isn't our problem. "

The anglo media are the ones who seem to think Ford is worse than than the Quebec mayor(s) scandals.

RDI has been covering the Quebec mayoral scandals extensively, (the Comission Charbonneau is the lead story today).

When I said the Quebec media has been all over this, I  meant the Quebec mayoral scandals, not Rob Ford.

 

[Edward Campbell]

So, for Quebecers a "Bombastic Druggie Ontario Mayor" is worse than a "Mafia Linked Quebec Mayor"?    :-\

No, I don't think so.

I think the media, including the Québec media, in both languages, reported on the corruption scandals (there's more than one) extensively and with a combination of shock, horror and sorrow.

The Ford Show® is different ... it shocks and horrifies, to be sure, but it also titillates and scandalizes and so on and there is, admittedly, a certain amount of "it couldn't happen to a nicer guy"aspect in some media outlets, notably the Toronto Star. But, in fairness to the Star, Mayor Ford and his allies did everything up to and including calling the Star's reporters liars so, I suppose, some gloating is justified.

 

 

[The Bread Guy]

No, it's probably more akin to "We don't give a rats a** about Toronto's mayor much outside Quebec as he it isn't our problem. "

FTFY

 

[Remius]

FTFY

Exactly.  But I will say this, in this regard (Ford), they likely have the right idea