The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)

[Kirkhill]

They have a better control of their system. We have to jump through to many levels of approval to get a simple order made. Then we have to jump through many other levels just to find a builder/ supplier. Then many other levels to approve the buy.
Often the contract needs to include a central Canada company or two on the consulting/supply side that increase costs significantly.
Add in all the kickbacks, back door deals and levels involved and the cost for a pencil goes from a few cents to ten dollars. If your not in Central Canada or close ties then your wasting your breath on contracts.

We cant afford our current procurement system

On that front a lot of their manufacturers, especially the military and naval ones have a long history as state enterprises. They had one customer, their boss. He footed all the bills.

 

[childs56]

On that front a lot of their manufacturers, especially the military and naval ones have a long history as state enterprises. They had one customer, their boss. He footed all the bills.

I think it has more to do with the actual production commitments and not humming and haaaing of actual contracts.
Canada has public funded defense companies. Who still fail to produce a product on time and close to an actual budget. Even though they eat through money like nobodies paying the bill.
Worse of all neither side are held responsible for bad quality service and poorly written contracts.

 

[OldSolduer]

I always wonder how smaller countries than ours, like Sweden for example, can afford to design and build subs and fighters but we can’t. I mean surely we can start and move forward to building similar industrial capabilities. Here are the comparisons of population,size,gdp for SK and Canada.

In the last century politicians wanted to curry favor rather than take things like defense seriously

That is why we got what we got... or at least part of the reason

 

[Genetk44]

A year ago I was flying from Toronto to Montreal….guy beside me was a Dutch financier who had moved to Canada 30 years ago and put down roots. 30 years later and he is still appalled at the endless bureaucracy and red-tape at all levels of government in Canada, even compared to the EU. We agreed that with all our resources and population levels Canada should be alot farther along than it is but for all the redtape and hoop-jumping. he being Dutch still finds it incredibly frustrating all things considered.

 

[Czech_pivo]

Carney’s high level itinerary for France and UK.

Interesting that the French mentions defence topics, while the UK donesnt -

The PMO release said Carney and Macron “will focus on their shared commitment to build stronger economic, commercial, and defence ties,” and Carney will talk about Canada’s efforts involving artificial intelligence.

His discussions with Starmer “will focus on strengthening transatlantic security, growing the AI sector, and the strong commercial relationship between Canada and the United Kingdom,” as well as bilateral trade, the PMO said. Carney will also meet with King Charles.

 

[OldSolduer]

Over on a page on FB the strategic geniuses are all for cancelling the F 35...which would still leave us without a decent fighter.

And you know the red tape....its been how many years already?

So IMO to start the process over is to fail.

 

[DBNSG]

Over on a page on FB the strategic geniuses are all for cancelling the F 35...which would still leave us without a decent fighter.

And you know the red tape....its been how many years already?

So IMO to start the process over is to fail.

That fail is the policy option that many Canadians want. There is a very deep myopia among some Canadians that the Americans do the military stuff. We pontificate, judge and feel superior. Trump's IDGAF is rattling that cage and comfort.

 

[MilEME09]

Over on a page on FB the strategic geniuses are all for cancelling the F 35...which would still leave us without a decent fighter.

And you know the red tape....its been how many years already?

So IMO to start the process over is to fail.

Pretty much might as well suck it up now but look at euro for 6th gen

 

[OldSolduer]

That fail is the policy option that many Canadians want. There is a very deep myopia among some Canadians that the Americans do the military stuff. We pontificate, judge and feel superior. Trump's IDGAF is rattling that cage and comfort.

Free dental enters the chat….

 

[Quirky]

Takes less time to solve that problem then to build a fighter.

Yeah it's so easy getting fighter pilots and techs, how that been working for us lately?

Free dental enters the chat….

You mean tax subsidized cleanings.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Pretty much might as well suck it up now but look at euro for 6th gen

Nailed it.

A strategic POV is generally a longer term, more proactive way to go.

Knee jerking to Trump's - likely shorter term - absurdities is a sign of helpless fear, and weak leadership.

 

[MilEME09]

Yeah it's so easy getting fighter pilots and techs, how that been working for us lately?



You mean tax subsidized cleanings.

Recruiting isn't the issue, retention is

 

[Quirky]

Recruiting isn't the issue, retention is

Sure is. We struggle to send pilots to waste away in Cold Lake for a decade knowing that the F-35 is coming in a few years. Cancel that, good luck getting anyone stupid enough to fly yesterdays tech for the next 30 years.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Sure is. We struggle to send pilots to waste away in Cold Lake for a decade knowing that the F-35 is coming in a few years. Cancel that, good luck getting anyone stupid enough to fly yesterdays tech for the next 30 years.

Heritage flight at all the airshow, hotel, booze, adoring fans......

 

[Cloud Cover]

In 1939, if Poland could have bought Me109’s right up until the end of August, they would have. Thankfully we are not in that situation. The F35 is going to be around for a long time,

I wasn’t addressing the ‘need’ of an F-35 “kill switch” (God-code, whatever), simply noting that I believe that no one can credibly say “No, it doesn’t have that code in it.”

Yes, the F-35 in-service support supply chain could indeed be misused to impact F-35 users.

My limited understanding is that there is no software coded kill switch but the aircraft will not be able to use its mission planning software for each new mission profile. The code signing keys for that are indeed held jointly by the RCAF (fir our F35) and someplace deep in the bowels of the Pentagon.

 

[OldSolduer]

My limited understanding is that there is no software coded kill switch but the aircraft will not be able to use its mission planning software for each new mission profile. The code signing keys for that are indeed held jointly by the RCAF (fir our F35) and someplace deep in the bowels of the Pentagon.

Question from a mud sucking retired infantry guy - how did missions get planned in the "olde days"?

 

[NavyShooter]

Probably pens, paper, and kneeboard maps.

Nowadays? Something like what they showed in Top Gun Maverick??

 

[OldSolduer]

Probably pens, paper, and kneeboard maps.

Nowadays? Something like what they showed in Top Gun Maverick??

I would venture to guess a similar Battle Procedure that the Army used. Maps etc...

 

[NavyShooter]

Probably not 'By Guess and by God'?

 

[KevinB]

In 1939, if Poland could have bought Me109’s right up until the end of August, they would have. Thankfully we are not in that situation. The F35 is going to be around for a long time,

My limited understanding is that there is no software coded kill switch.

No, but…

will not be able to use its mission planning software for each new mission profile.

There is potential in theory for more.

Any software updates could theoretically disable parts of the aircraft — this goes for not just the F-35, but any aircraft that gets code upgrades to various systems. One reason that the Zero Trust Network is super important so you don’t get some nefarious things being introduced by Third parties.

Like from not allowing the landing gear to be retracted - to not launching/activating CM’s or not launching missiles.

The code signing keys for that are indeed held jointly by the RCAF (fir our F35) and someplace deep in the bowels of the Pentagon.

I believe that various contractors (LockMart, Raytheon etc) push upgrades out to the F-35 Program Office - it is then distributed from there to the host nation program.

Two guys I used to Coach youth hockey with are on the F-35 Program on the DoD side, I’ll ask them a few questions and see if they can answer.



My point is that for all the fear mongering going on about the F-35, any modern combat system has similar worries. Secondly as long as the USAF is flying F-22’s, it doesn’t matter what any other nation has for fighters.