The Matt Stopford Saga

[Big Foot]

I am still shocked by what WO Stopford is being forced to endure. If the story told by "The Ghosts of Medak Pocket" are true, as I believe them to be, WO Stopford should not have to fight for compensation. He was working to fulfill the orders given to him from his superiors and in the process, brought all his men back safely. Yet his superiors failed to tell him his men were plotting to kill him? Shameful. But not quite as shameful as blaming his litany of ailments on PTSD. Give the man the credit he deserves. He faithfully served his country and his government abandons him. Utterly appalling.

 

[childs56]

well if what he says is true, i think a hanging of the individuals would be appropraite. It is appaling that he has suffered thrue these matters.The fact that our goverment  does what it does is real appalling. I am second guessing my descsion to have gone regular force right now, due to numerous things that are going on. Although I do not know his details in general, (WO Stopfords) I do beleive that the CF should hav estepped up to the plate to have compensated him nonthe less, even if they say "it is only PTSD" he still deserves a fair and equal recouperance of cost, and then of a way to live his life in general. It is like everything else in the Cf they need to let some people fall, it is to bad they have let him fall. it is a shame and a disgrace in how our soldiers sailors and airmen are treated by the CF, and how it is an uphill battle to get what they deserve. WO Stopford I hope your out come in the end is what you want and need to live your life out.  For the scum that did this to him I hope the yardarms are full with your dangling bodies. 

 

[Cloud Cover]

well if what he says is true, i think a hanging of the individuals would be appropraite. It is appaling that he has suffered thrue these matters.The fact that our goverment   does what it does is real appalling. I am second guessing my descsion to have gone regular force right now, due to numerous things that are going on. Although I do not know his details in general, (WO Stopfords) I do beleive that the CF should hav estepped up to the plate to have compensated him nonthe less, even if they say "it is only PTSD" he still deserves a fair and equal recouperance of cost, and then of a way to live his life in general. It is like everything else in the Cf they need to let some people fall, it is to bad they have let him fall. it is a shame and a disgrace in how our soldiers sailors and airmen are treated by the CF, and how it is an uphill battle to get what they deserve. WO Stopford I hope your out come in the end is what you want and need to live your life out.   For the scum that did this to him I hope the yardarms are full with your dangling bodies.  

I think even WO Stopford would agree that it would be a mistake to let what happened to him cause you to have regrets about your present form of service. If anything, this whole ordeal should cause you to be an advocate for increased professionalism in the military and you are in the position of making that happen by demonstrating professionalism in the face of your own personal feelings.
What happened to Stopford happened because of a breakdown in discipline in the field and then made worse by a failure in leadership in Ottawa.  Cheers. 

 

[bossi]

What happened to Stopford happened because of a breakdown in discipline in the field and then made worse by a failure in leadership in Ottawa.  

To quote one of my favourite lines (from the movie "The Right Stuff"):  F'ing "A", Bubba!

 

[Brad Sallows]

The allegations are a pretty big deal.  Why no names?

 

[HollywoodHitman]

Disturbing to say the least, the whole thing. Another example of the CF ignoring the health problems of a veteran.

That being said, there's alot of experience here. I don't know a thing about this guy. Is there anyone on this forum who worked with / for him either in FYR or during their careers, who could shed some light on his personality, leadership style and why on earth anyone would want to do this to a fellow soldier?

 

[garb811]

With respect, I don't think this is the appropriate venue to line by line Mr Stopfords personality and leadership style so if you wish to answer HH's request, please do it privately.

 

[HollywoodHitman]

Garb,

I can understand your point. The thing is, the reason I ask is because this is now a public case. If it were a private matter, your concerns would be more than applicable. I should have qualified my post by mentioning that I am not looking for a means of publicly lynching the guy by any means.

Since it's public domain (as in it's gone to media and court), and there may be some people who could shed some light on his unfortunate situation, I'd be curious.

He obviously feels strongly that he did not do anything to deserve what happened to him (and there is nothing which in my mind would justify it, poisoning someone is a cowardly act).

There has to be both good and bad experiences with this man, and I was simply asking for a better view of the big picture. What could he possibly have done to warrant his being poisoned by his troops? THATS my question.

 

[garb811]

I see where you are coming from as well but even this far on emotions surrounding this issue are extremely raw and my concern would be having Mr Bobbitt vulnerable to possible legal action from Mr Stopford and others if someone were to use this as an opportunity to unload and tell "their side of the story".   Even though this is apparently going to trial, much is still not in the public domain.

What could he possibly have done to warrant his being poisoned by his troops? THATS my question.

You've already answered this yourself, nothing could.   This occurred over a period of what...weeks, months?...and it is obvious the primary motivation was to avoid being caught as opposed to ensuring their physical safety.   The truly ironic thing is that as this plot progressed they probably increased their physical danger by interfering with his ability to carry out his leadership duties, mentally and physically.  

 

[HollywoodHitman]

All valid points. Of course there was nothing that could reasonably warrant poisoning someone, but again, my rationale is to determine what kinds of things could he have done to justify in the minds of those who participated in this, their acts.

As for the legal ramifications of this topic altogether, I am not a lawyer (thank God) and I will leave it up to people who are versed in this type of thing to make that call. If my question is inappropriate, then this topic should have been locked at the earliest of stages.

I would expect that the conduct of people posting on this topic would be professional and informed, so hopefully we can maintain a sense of that with the replies on either side of the spectrum.

Just so anyone who has any thoughts on my interest in this, I am disappointed that another soldier is being left to suffer because of his gov't. I have a good friend who was abandoned by the system as well and I have seen it's toll on him, so I do feel bad for this man.

I dont know Stopford and to the best of my knowledge, never had any dealings with him, which is why I am curious.

 

[Michael Dorosh]

You've already answered this yourself, nothing could.   This occurred over a period of what...weeks, months?...and it is obvious the primary motivation was to avoid being caught as opposed to ensuring their physical safety.   The truly ironic thing is that as this plot progressed they probably increased their physical danger by interfering with his ability to carry out his leadership duties, mentally and physically.  

But these troops obviously had some issues - always been curious to know what they were, or why they felt the need to do something like this.  You are correct it may not be appropriate for open forum - hopefully any responses (if any) will be regulated accordingly.

 

[Brad Sallows]

I haven't exactly been following this closely.  The proof of deliberate poisoning is... ?

 

[ArmyRick]

He was poisoned, that much is not questionable.
How else does boot blackener and naphtha end up in your coffee..
There is more stuff to, but I would rather let the individuals directly involved speak on the issue.

 

[George Wallace]

Just read Peter Worthington's ( http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/Columnists/Toronto/Peter_Worthington/2005/02/06/922313.html )   article of 6 Feb 2005 and found it rather upsetting that this is being drugout for so long.   The Government should have the moral fortitude to address this matter and get over with it.   If that involves finding the guilty parties and charging/imprisoning them, then so be it.

GW

 

[Long in the tooth]

Do we (the public) know anything about the privates and corporals that served under this WO?   Were they good troops, or bad apples?   Poisoning someone isn't something I would expect just anybody to enter into lightly.

I too would like to know the full story.   What was the Platoon Commander's role in all this?   With all due respect to Mr. Worthington, he's been known to be discriminating with the facts.   I find the governments' stand in this incomprehensible.   Obviously WO Stopford is hurt badly.   There should be no question of causality here - healthy soldier goes overseas, comes back all messed up.   I'm not in favour of throwing money away (Bombardier), but in this case the government should give 'til it hurts.

 

[Spr.Earl]

Yes or no it may of happened but Canadian Troops are known since the Boer War for taking care of those who lets say "endanger" the whole for their own or the Regiments Aggrandisement how ever you wish to call it.

From Modern Military History as I understand it we Canadians invented Fragging.
Yet it has happened for Millennium's with in alll Armies of all Nations.

I accuse no one but lets all sit back and not accuse.
If it happened,those who did it will be found out even at this late of date.

 

[ArmyRick]

Spr Earl
The military investigators know who did it. Its a matter of legal technicalities that they have not been charged.

 

[SHELLDRAKE!!]

I echo the sentiments of not placing blame.Without actual getting those involved to clarify the incident I think the issue here is the governments reaction to a veterans claim.

As for the fragging comment, I think quite a few out there have heard of an incident where a person in charge has made a decision that could have resulted in seriouse injury or death if the orders were followed, but I will reserve comments on that one.

 

[DFW2T]

Do we (the public) know anything about the privates and corporals that served under this WO?   Were they good troops, or bad apples?   Poisoning someone isn't something I would expect just anybody to enter into lightly.

Dorash   you are a TWIT!
   I have been trying to bite my tongue for two days now..........................................I can't do it any longer.
   
It's that kind of (I know my civil rights,   attitude) that destroying the military today!   You have no idea what it take to be LEADER (A#####E).   WO Stopford is a CDN hero..Full Stop!!!!!
Who gives a   s#$t   to the statement of what kind of troops he lead! or what kind of leader he was!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
   He lead a bunch of bad apples through the worst crap CDN forces seen since Korea..........................And you ask ,     what kind of troops were they? You should be asking why theses a'holes would do that! And for those troops that were not involved....why did they let it happen!
   Today's army is to blame for letting people think above their chain link........ it's the attitude of todays military! (new commers)  
  Those gutless piss ants should be sought out and persecuted to the full extent of our legal   abilities.   Hung from the highest tree!   WO Stopfords' character should not be in question!
    If I'm not banned already I will end this by saying... you are PATHETIC like the ones that poisoned him.        
 20 Years ago your thread   and the F'n Liberal government would be tantamount to treason!
As an ex soldier.... I tell you ,    I am glad that I never had to serve with you........and I feel for those who do!

 

[Michael Dorosh]

Dorash  you are a TWIT!
  I have been trying to bite my tongue for two days now..........................................I can't do it any longer.
 
It's that kind of (I know my civil rights,  attitude) that destroying the military today!  You have no idea what it take to be LEADER (A#####E).  WO Stopford is a CDN hero..Full Stop!!!!!
Who gives a  s#$t  to the statement of what kind of troops he lead! or what kind of leader he was!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  He lead a bunch of bad apples through the worst crap CDN forces seen since Korea..........................And you ask ,    what kind of troops were they? You should be asking why theses a'holes would do that! And for those troops that were not involved....why did they let it happen!
  Today's army is to blame for letting people think above their chain link........ it's the attitude of todays military! (new commers) 
  Those gutless piss ants should be sought out and persecuted to the full extent of our legal  abilities.  Hung from the highest tree!  WO Stopfords' character should not be in question!
    If I'm not banned already I will end this by saying... you are PATHETIC like the ones that poisoned him.       
20 Years ago your thread  and the F'n Liberal government would be tantamount to treason!
As an ex soldier.... I tell you ,  I am glad that I never had to serve with you........and I feel for those who do!

First off, personal insults are not permitted here.  I'm also one of the moderators, so naturally that makes your insults even more foolish. If you're not capable of acting like an adult, you will be formally warned, after which, if your behaviour doesn't improve, you'll simply be banned.

Secondly, do you honestly think that troops just go around trying to kill their superiors for no reason?  Whether it was a good, bad or indifferent reason, these guys didn't simply do this in a vacuum.  Would be good to know the entire story.

Thirdly, you speak of bad leadership - I've served under some extremely bad leaders.  Never wanted to kill any of them, but can relate to the frustration felt when no one in authority is paying attention to complaints, and have been made to feel like complaining would bring recriminations on myself as "bad leadership" is hard to prove.  Things have changed a lot in the military since then, but there will always be cases of bad leaders.  I don't know if that is the case here, but if someone is so desperate to change their situation that it means they are poisoning their boss, it means there is a lot going on that needs to be investigated.

Did you have anything intelligent to say in response?