Temporary Duty ( TD ) merged

[Pusser]

DND's interpretation of the regulation as it applies to "Continental Breakfasts":

"Breakfast meals provided by a hotel that are considered insufficient must be supported by a statement from the member and a receipt up to the per diem rate for the meal being claimed."

What this means is that you would actually have to spend the money (and provide a receipt) if you were to claim for breakfast when a continental breakfast is provided.  In other words, you can't just claim for breakfast by stating that the continental breakfast was insufficient.  Furthermore, the cost of your supplemental breakfast (second breakfast for all you hobbits out there) can only be reimbursed to the maximum rate for breakfast (cuts out the beluga caviar and champagne).  Having said all this, you could try buying bulk groceries, spreading the cost over the number of days you were there and claiming it that way.  Then it depends on how flexible your CO/Comptroller is.*

*NB:  Although a CO/Comptroller has a reasonable amount of discretion, it should not matter who is paying the bill.  A local CO/Comptroller cannot approve an unauthorized expense, regardless of whose budget eventually pays for it. 

 

[mpdid]

For our claims it depends, a muffin and pastries are normally not sufficient and we will give the member breakfast per diem... in the hopes he used it for a real breakfast.

If you start getting into eggs, bacon/sausage, toast, juice and coffee then that's starting to sound like a breakfast. Even if I didnt like my eggs scrambled but it was offered to me along with other proteins and carbs I wouldn't claim breakfast. I work in a large unit and each member is responsible for filling out a TD worksheet. Unless something is really off we go off what they put down on there. I find that 99.5% of the time people are genuinely honest.

I have heard of some units making clerks call the hotel to ask what kind of breakfast is offered, we do not do that.

 

[dapaterson]

Having been on both sides of the claim, I'll say that calling the hotel usually happens when the claimant is someone who, in the past, has been shown to be "less than fully upfront".  And I've done such calls for both military and civilian pers, and taken a red pen to a wide array of things that someone attempted to claim (spousal programs? Movies in the room?  Room service on top of the per diem?)

 

[mpdid]

Hi dataperson,

Yes sometimes it's.... interesting to see some stuff some people try to claim (you are so right on it being both mil and civ). And of course, if we were in serious doubt, we would have to call to hotel, but as a rule we don't. I have heard of some units making clerks call hotels if anybody claims breakfast while staying at a hotel. Yuck.

Thankfully, most people  are honest. Because when it comes down to it and a claim is falsified, it's not my butt on the line.

 

[dapaterson]

Hi dataperson,

Yes sometimes it's.... interesting to see some stuff some people try to claim (you are so right on it being both mil and civ). And of course, if we were in serious doubt, we would have to call to hotel, but as a rule we don't. I have heard of some units making clerks call hotels if anybody claims breakfast while staying at a hotel. Yuck.

Thankfully, most people  are honest. Because when it comes down to it and a claim is falsified, it's not my butt on the line.

"Interesting" covers so many sins - and is such a great word.

But once you're doing section 34 approvals, arguably it is your butt on the line - so a little due diligence is always warranted.

 

[CountDC]

Often the receipts submitted will indicate that a continental breakfast was included and sometimes claims x will indicate the meal.  If the member wants to claim the meal then I make a call to the hotel to find out what was provided.  If it is muffins and coffee then I give the meal and include a note on the claim explaining why.  if anything such as eggs is mentioned then the member must do a statement that the meal was not satisfactory and provide the receipt or credit card statement for the meal they claim they purchased.  If the member insists on claiming the meal without documentation I will have the member do a stat dec memo that they purchased the meal at x amount and send higher for approval with the recommendation that the meal not be approved.  Yes I do let the member know I will not be supporting the claim.

You are right not to assume you should claim it and to assume you would get away with it.  People have been caught for claim fraud and some have paid a hefty fee for the sake of a simple thing as claiming $5 for a taxi they didn't take.

 

[PanaEng]

Often the receipts submitted will indicate that a continental breakfast was included and sometimes claims x will indicate the meal.  If the member wants to claim the meal then I make a call to the hotel to find out what was provided.  If it is muffins and coffee then I give the meal and include a note on the claim explaining why.  if anything such as eggs is mentioned then the member must do a statement that the meal was not satisfactory and provide the receipt or credit card statement for the meal they claim they purchased.  If the member insists on claiming the meal without documentation I will have the member do a stat dec memo that they purchased the meal at x amount and send higher for approval with the recommendation that the meal not be approved.  Yes I do let the member know I will not be supporting the claim.

Really?
you have that much time on your hands? must be nice (yet I'm in here - on my break ;-) )
and willing to put that much effort for $15 (compared to say 2 man/hrs at $25/hr) ???
Of-course, if you really suspect that someone is consistently dishonest and want to make an example of them, by all means...

 

[Fishbone Jones]

I don't ever recall having to even turn in meal receipts. They know I'm away, where I am and that I have to eat. If the meal was provided, I don't claim it. My clerks have better things to do than call around the country\ continent\ world and see what was on the fucking menu.

If someone is going to get their panties in a knot because they don't know if the waffle machine in the lobby constitutes a breakfast, don't friggin' claim it. You shouldn't be allowed out to wander civilization without supervision, if you sit up at nights worrying about such trivial shit.

I'm always amazed at how such simple questions around here get turned into 20 pages of the most difficult administrative exercises this side of D-Day. It's no wonder our military is so disfunctional and hamstrung by bureaucracy :facepalm:

Anyway that's my  :2c: whether anyone likes it or not. I've survived over 35 years in uniform without losing sleep about a TD meal or whether I have to turn my paperwork in to some claims nazi.

 

[my72jeep]

:goodpost: : :deadhorse:

 

[Pusser]

Really?
you have that much time on your hands? must be nice (yet I'm in here - on my break ;-) )
and willing to put that much effort for $15 (compared to say 2 man/hrs at $25/hr) ???
Of-course, if you really suspect that someone is consistently dishonest and want to make an example of them, by all means...

As the guardians of the Queen's purse, it's our JOB to do this at least periodically.  If we don't, then folks will simply always claim for things they're not entitled to because "no one ever checks that!"  It may seem like a small amount if it's only one person, but if "everyone's doing it," the costs start to add up and can be significant.  Remember all the bad press the public service has gotten because some idiots have claimed for chewing gum?  It's not about making an example of someone (because most often it's simply stricken off the claim and that's the end of it).  It's about enforcing the rules.  It's kind of like making sure all those "REMOVE BEFORE FLIGHT" tags are well, removed before flight.

 

[mpdid]

As the guardians of the Queen's purse, it's our JOB to do this at least periodically.  If we don't, then folks will simply always claim for things they're not entitled to because "no one ever checks that!"  It may seem like a small amount if it's only one person, but if "everyone's doing it," the costs start to add up and can be significant.  Remember all the bad press the public service has gotten because some idiots have claimed for chewing gum?  It's not about making an example of someone (because most often it's simply stricken off the claim and that's the end of it).  It's about enforcing the rules.  It's kind of like making sure all those "REMOVE BEFORE FLIGHT" tags are well, removed before flight.

I agree. I will always work to the benefit of a member. My job isn't there to screw them, ever. I like my customers. So if they are entitled to something that is clearly written in policy, I will give it to them. BUT if it isn't claimable, or is a gray area I will either say "I'm sorry," or seek clarification.

As I said 99% of the time there is no problem. There is a lot of TD that happens in my unit, domestic and international, so we've seen almost everything.

 

[CountDC]

Really?
you have that much time on your hands? must be nice (yet I'm in here - on my break ;-) )
and willing to put that much effort for $15 (compared to say 2 man/hrs at $25/hr) ???
Of-course, if you really suspect that someone is consistently dishonest and want to make an example of them, by all means...

Yes I do make the time to do my job and don't see that as a problem. I know some people see picking up a phone and pressing the numbers as a huge problem and god forbid someone should take 5 minutes to check the facts.  Wouldn't really want people to do their jobs now would we.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Yes I do make the time to do my job and don't see that as a problem. I know some people see picking up a phone and pressing the numbers as a huge problem and god forbid someone should take 5 minutes to check the facts.  Wouldn't really want people to do their jobs now would we.

See, here's the problem. Having to check should be the exception.

You make it sound like the rule and that you do it all the time, not in the odd instance.

You're not the only professional around here, lighten up.

 

[mpdid]

But once you're doing section 34 approvals, arguably it is your butt on the line - so a little due diligence is always warranted.

Good point, thank you.

 

[CountDC]

See, here's the problem. Having to check should be the exception.

You make it sound like the rule and that you do it all the time, not in the odd instance.

You're not the only professional around here, lighten up.

Perhaps you missed the part at the beginning which seems to me to clearly show it is the exception and does not make it sound liike I do it all the time so I will repeat it for you:

Often the receipts submitted will indicate that a continental breakfast was included and sometimes claims x will indicate the meal.  If the member wants to claim the meal then I make a call to the hotel

Damn rights I am going to check when I have the document saying the meal is included or the system says it was and the member is saying it wasn't.  I have to justify on the claim why I am ignoring the receipt or overriding the system to the auditors and simply saying "oh, he told me he wanted to" doesn't wash.

By the way - this also protects the member if their claim gets audited down the road.  Imagine if the member travelled every month, claimed $15 each time that they were not supposed to be paid and then the auditors checked the claims at the end of the year.  Who do you think will be blamed when the member is informed they have to pay back $180?  Of course it will be the clerk that "didn't do his job" again.

Lighten up applies both ways - people should lighten up about others doing their jobs.

 

[misratah500]

I'm posted to a ship and I collect sea pay. I am TD'd out to CFNES Halifax for 8 weeks to do some courses. And the west coast fleet school (CFFSE Esq) TD clerk told me I'm not entitled to TD pay because I collect sea duty allowance.

This is the first I have ever heard of this since I've collected TD pay and sea pay simultaneously on a few occasions, the last being Feb 2011.

I talked to my pay office onboard my ship and they agree with me that I collect both and never heard of any new rule that stops you from getting TD pay. My claim has a hand written note on the corner that says " No advance because he collects sea pay"

WTF is the correct action here. Is the clerk at CFFSE Esq wrong and how will I get this sorted out when I get back?

 

[aesop081]

My claim has a hand written note on the corner that says " No advance because he collects sea pay"

Typical Navy...........

In all my years of receiving AIRCRA, it has never affected receiving TD when I went away on courses and tasks. It may be a quirk specific to SDA bit to me, it sounds more like Navy BS.

 

[dapaterson]

CFTDI on incidental expenses (section 7.16):

(3) (No Entitlement) There is no entitlement to an incidental expense allowance if any of the following conditions are satisfied:
(a) the member is on adventure training authorized by or under the authority of the Chief of the Defence Staff;
(b) with the exception of sick leave granted under QR&O article 16.16 (Sick Leave), the member is on leave under QR&O chapter 16 (Leave);
(c) the member is in hospital;

(d) the member is in receipt of an allowance under Section 2 (Environmental Allowances) of CBI 205 (Allowances For Officers And Non-Commissioned Members) and is,
(i) deployed — in the field — on operations or training exercises of 24 hours or longer duration, or
(ii) aboard a ship — or submarine — that is out of port for more than 24 hours; or

(e) the member is on leave because the member requested to use a PMV rather than a more economical and practical mode of transportation and the member uses that PMV for duty travel.

By my read, that means that when you are at sea for 24 hours or more you are no longer entitled to incidentals.  I believe this is a fairly recent change.

 

[aesop081]

The OP is going from ship to shore for a tasking on the other coast.

 

[misratah500]

Yeah, by reading that description that doesn't apply to me I don't believe. I am posted to a ship but I'm TD'd to the west coast school, which is sending me to the east coast school for a course. I'm getting R&Q and travel incidentals. Again my clerks on ship said this is bullshit and I get TD pay. I think the clerk at the School's OR is confused....