Survey on Future Remembrance Ceremonies

[FSTO]

I found about one-third of the questions were leading in one direction.

After the non-political answers to the RCN's rank change survey, I'm surprised VAC opted to bother with a survey if they already have their mind made up.

I’ll be forever annoyed at that farce of a survey.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

My closing comment of "Cut the VAC commemoration budget and put the money into solving the claims backlog" will not make me many friends in Charlottetown...

That was my reply also

 

[Underway]

Is that what they are teaching in school now?

From what I recall as a school-boy ( long ago ) it was pretty simple. To remember CAF members who died in war.

No and yes. Only the youngest of kids are taught this, which is the most straightforward interpretation of Remembrance Day. I've spoken to those kids at their schools to give some context. Older children and high schoolers have more complex opinions and emotions. Given that Remembrance Day means different things to different people when they are older they should be allowed to explore those thoughts. My kids have a more complicated relationship with Remembrance Day than I ever did. They remember when dad was in a war zone. It's personal to them.

IMHO Remembrance Day shouldn't be proscriptive, it should be reflection, healing, exploration, and education. It should mean different things to different people. That's what makes it personal and valuable.

 

[Remius]

So the survey wasn’t just about Remembrance Day. It was about remembrance as a whole.

 

[Remius]

Can we change the title of this thread as it is misleading.

 

[kratz]

Can we change the title of this thread as it is misleading.

Changed.

 

[mariomike]

Given that Remembrance Day means different things to different people when they are older they should be allowed to explore those thoughts.

Which also leads to this question,

Remembrance Day: National holiday?/"Veterans' Day"? (merged)

Arbor Memorial video. https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=remembrance+day+video&&view=detail&mid=4B3D110C8E984DF4DFE44B3D110C8E984DF4DFE4&&FORM=VDRVSR

army.ca

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Done, also sent the link out to all my Cadet families as well.

 

[Loachman]

I have two opinions or takes on Remembrance Day that is perhaps different from others. I tried to make them clear in the survey.

1) Remembrance day isn't necessarily about the dead. It's about sacrifice. Actually, the dead's sacrifice may have been the easiest in many cases. Sacrifice comes from the families who have to go on. The kids with no parent. The wounded in mind and body who are still suffering, and the families who bear the financial, mental, and physical strain of caring for them or in many cases can't, thus destroying that family. The mental damage to the kids with a parent in a war zone. Focus on the sacrifice.

2) Remembrance Day is about taking responsibility for your decisions. It's no surprise that people run away from responsibility. It's always happened and it always will. When a government takes the hard decision to send troops into harm's way, they are making that decision on behalf of the voters. The voters, in a democracy, are essentially responsible for that decision. This means the people of Canada are responsible for the results of sending troops into harm's way. We asked our fellow Canadians to do something for us. We need to acknowledge that.

Remembrance Day is the only day of the year, we Canadians, collectively take responsibility for our decisions. We acknowledge and recognize that in an act of mourning. Who takes responsibility for the dead and the suffering? We do. All of us.

No.

It is to remember those who died in wars and conflicts.

Dilution is unjustifiable, inexcusable, and wrong, wrong, wrong.

 

[Underway]

No.

It is to remember those who died in wars and conflicts.

Dilution is unjustifiable, inexcusable, and wrong, wrong, wrong.

No. Trying to codify this so rigidly is wrong. Doctrinally trying to enforce how I deal with something as personal as this is well, intrusive. It runs contrary to the entire point of the sacrifice. Many of them died so I can choose instead of having choices forced upon me by others. You experience Remembrance Day your way, I'll experience it mine. It doesn't invalidate either approach. Either way, we'll end up at the same place. Heads bowed in respect, in quiet reflection with a poppy on to show that respect. And then at the Legion, for a pint to swap stories.

 

[Loachman]

It has long been codified.

Remembrance Day - Wikipedia

Remembrance Day (sometimes known informally as Poppy Day owing to the tradition of the remembrance poppy) is a memorial day observed in Commonwealth member states. Remembrance Day has been observed since the end of the First World War to remember armed forces members who have died in the line of duty.

Importance of Remembrance

Importance of Remembrance

Canadians often associate The Royal Canadian Legion with Remembrance ceremonies and events. Through these initiatives, we honour and remember Canada’s fallen Veterans and help ensure Canadians never forget.

https://www.veterans.gc.ca/eng/remembrance/history/a-day-of-remembrance/why

Why Remember?

We must remember. If we do not, the sacrifice of those one hundred thousand Canadian lives will be meaningless. They died for us, for their homes and families and friends, for a collection of traditions they cherished and a future they believed in; they died for Canada. The meaning of their sacrifice rests with our collective national consciousness; our future is their monument.1

Remembrance - Remembrance Day | Canada and the First World War

Remembrance Day rejuvenated interest in recalling the war and military sacrifice, attracting thousands to ceremonies in cities large and small across the country. It remained a day to honour the fallen, but traditional services also witnessed occasional calls to remember the horror of war and to embrace peace.

I have no objection to you doing whatever else you want to do, but the historical and official purpose of Remembrance Day is to honour our war dead.

Anything else that a government body or other random committee seeks to do to dilute that or combine it with something else is extremely disrespectful to their memory.

In Flanders fields the poppies blow
Between the crosses, row on row,
That mark our place; and in the sky
The larks, still bravely singing, fly
Scarce heard amid the guns below.

We are the Dead. Short days ago
We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,
Loved and were loved, and now we lie,
In Flanders fields.

Take up our quarrel with the foe:
To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

How the government and veterans organisations deal with Remembrance day, is something to be careful with and lean to Loachmans view, but how individuals and families deal with it is personal and flexible as Underway mentions, being respectful is all that is asked.

 

[mariomike]

I have no objection to you doing whatever else you want to do, but the historical and official purpose of Remembrance Day is to honour our war dead.

"All gave some. Some gave all."

 

[SupersonicMax]

No.

It is to remember those who died in wars and conflicts.

Dilution is unjustifiable, inexcusable, and wrong, wrong, wrong.

Actually, according to the VAC site, “[e]very year on November 11, Canadians pause in a moment of silence to honour and remember the men and women who have served, and continue to serve Canada during times of war, conflict and peace. We remember the more than 2,300,000 Canadians who have served throughout our nation’s history and the more than 118,000 who made the ultimate sacrifice.”

In a similar vein, the legion site mentions “Remembrance Day is a day for all Canadians to remember the men and women who served and sacrificed for our country. It is a day we encourage every individual, young and old, to pause, to give thanks and to remember,” although it also says “every year, at the eleventh hour of the eleventh day of the eleventh month, we gather in memorial parks, community halls, workplaces, schools and homes to stand in honour of all who have fallen.”

It is not clear to me that we would dilute the intent of Remembrance Day by putting more emphasis on all people who served/are serving.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Actually, according to the VAC site, “[e]very year on November 11, Canadians pause in a moment of silence to honour and remember the men and women who have served, and continue to serve Canada during times of war, conflict and peace. We remember the more than 2,300,000 Canadians who have served throughout our nation’s history and the more than 118,000 who made the ultimate sacrifice.”

In a similar vein, the legion site mentions “Remembrance Day is a day for all Canadians to remember the men and women who served and sacrificed for our country. It is a day we encourage every individual, young and old, to pause, to give thanks and to remember,” although it also says “every year, at the eleventh hour of the eleventh day of the eleventh month, we gather in memorial parks, community halls, workplaces, schools and homes to stand in honour of all who have fallen.”

It is not clear to me that we would dilute the intent of Remembrance Day by putting more emphasis on all people who served/are serving.

Sounds a little too 'self-serving' for my liking, at various levels

 

[Kilted]

Ultimately the individual Legions are going to do whatever they want. Normally that's doing things the way they have always done them. I've been on a cenotaph guard for a few different Remembrance Day services and I've seen (well more realistically heard) things done different ways in regards to wreaths. In one location they read out the name of every single organization/business/family that laid a wreath. The other location laid the wreaths while reading the names of the dead, which went much faster. Then the hard part afterwards is trying to march off the cenotaph without knocking over/stepping on the wreaths. The fact that no one tried to hang them off parts of our uniforms is a miracle.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

Actually, according to the VAC site, “[e]very year on November 11, Canadians pause in a moment of silence to honour and remember the men and women who have served, and continue to serve Canada during times of war, conflict and peace. We remember the more than 2,300,000 Canadians who have served throughout our nation’s history and the more than 118,000 who made the ultimate sacrifice.”

In a similar vein, the legion site mentions “Remembrance Day is a day for all Canadians to remember the men and women who served and sacrificed for our country. It is a day we encourage every individual, young and old, to pause, to give thanks and to remember,” although it also says “every year, at the eleventh hour of the eleventh day of the eleventh month, we gather in memorial parks, community halls, workplaces, schools and homes to stand in honour of all who have fallen.”

It is not clear to me that we would dilute the intent of Remembrance Day by putting more emphasis on all people who served/are serving.

That maybe what the VAC and the Legion want Remembrance Day to be, but, historically it is not true.

Obviously, Remembrance Day is about people, because people served and people died. It should be a day for reflection and I prefer to reflect on those who did not come home.

 

[stoker dave]

I also used the survey as an opportunity to suggest that the Royal Canadian Legion's monopoly on the use of the poppy symbol should be reviewed.

 

[Blackadder1916]

That maybe what the VAC and the Legion want Remembrance Day to be, but, historically it is not true.

Obviously, Remembrance Day is about people, because people served and people died. It should be a day for reflection and I prefer to reflect on those who did not come home.

Those who fail to remember history are doomed to change it to suit their narrative. Pardon my butchering of an oft repeated maxim.

I remember the day as "Armistice Day" though the official name changed, depending on what source you use, either before or after the Second World War. However, at least in Newfoundland, it was still called Armistice Day in the year of my birth.



And how did The Canadian Press characterize the purpose of the day in 1955?



But being Newfoundlanders, we have to be different and have another day on which we also honour our war dead. Next week, on the day that the rest of Canada holds a birthday party (or will/would depending on public health restrictions), Newfoundland will take a moment to remember those who gave their lives in service of King and Empire, or Queen and Country, or in the service of peace. Come Memorial Day I'll have a thought about those I've known and served with and who are no longer with us, as well as those I've never known but didn't get home. I recently came across an interesting bit of trivia. Of the seventeen (17) soldiers (all gunners of 2 RCHA) who died in the Canoe River train crash on 21 Nov 50, five (5) were Newfoundlanders. A significant contribution from a province that had only joined Canada the previous year.

 

[Loachman]

I also used the survey as an opportunity to suggest that the Royal Canadian Legion's monopoly on the use of the poppy symbol should be reviewed.

I believe that they only hold copyright over their particular depiction. A small number of people in Canada have used the British poppy in defiance.