Study: CF Snipers "coping as well or better than regular soldiers"

[HItorMiss]

It's when people say "its just a job", it sounds like they have no feeling at all, that what they do has no meaning to them other than a paycheck.

I, like many here have had to kill some people I can assure you that is how I feel. It really is just my job and it is what the tax payers pay me for so in essence it does have no meaning to me other then just a paycheck

I know/hope I'm wrong, that when people say those lines they mean like you see in a old western, not like in  a warcrime trial.

Not sure what you're getting at here I have never seen a war crime committed but I have seen more then a few people killed and hear that exact statement done by the persons doing the killing.

 

[Journeyman]

It's when people say "its just a job", it sounds like they have no feeling at all, that what they do has no meaning to them other than a paycheck.

I know/hope I'm wrong, that when people say those lines they mean like you see in a old western, not like in  a warcrime trial.

Yep, there's no difference whatsoever between soldiers lawfully engaged in combat taking an enemy combatant's life.....and war-crimes -- both perpetrators should be wracked with guilt and psychologically damaged for their sins.



:brickwall:  << in lieu of a sarcasm smiley, to more clearly indicate my thoughts on your post; I fear it may have been too nuanced otherwise.  :

 

[Avor]

Not sure what you're getting at here

The differnce between doing a job for money, and doing it because you believe in it.

 

[HItorMiss]

So you think we do this because we believe in it?

How interesting

I should clarify, I do it because I am paid to do it. It is a job simple as that and I am competent at it.

 

[Franko]

The differnce between doing a job for money, and doing it because you believe in it.

I think it's time for you to stop and think before you hit that post button.....

Regards

 

[Avor]

So you think we do this because we believe in it?

I thought believing selflessly fighting for the safty, rights and freedoms of others was a in tegral part of being a Canadian soldier. But without beleifs like that, what is there to seperate what you do from the likes of mercenaries?

 

[aesop081]

I thought believing selflessly fighting for the safty, rights and freedoms of others was a in tegral part of being a Canadian soldier. But without beleifs like that, what is there to seperate what you do from the likes of mercenaries?

I think you are just living in a bit of a dream world and watched too many movies.

 

[Journeyman]

The difference between doing a job for money, and doing it because you believe in it.

I think the main problem with the argument as you stated it is that it's based on two, mutually-exclusive premises.

A sniper, or indeed any soldier, fights and kills an enemy because:

a) they're interested in the pay, LDA, Afghan tax-breaks, cool places for HLTA only; or

b) because they altruistically believe in 'the cause' -- god is on our side and the soldier would do this for free even if the spouse had to work swing-shifts at both McD's and WalMart to pay the rent so the soldier could fight the 'good fight' only.

Perhaps if you considered a middle ground, or a blending of the two motivations, you'd be less ostracized.

~shrug~


ps - if you would consider such a middle ground, there's another discussion in the wings 

 

[Franko]

I thought believing selflessly fighting for the safty, rights and freedoms of others was a in tegral part of being a Canadian soldier. But without beleifs like that, what is there to seperate what you do from the likes of mercenaries?

Pay and experience is what drives most to go, at least the first time. All the training troops go through, especially prior to 911, in their career you certainly don't want to be left out of the "big game".

Seeing kids younger than 4 years old helping their parents sort through mountains of trash in a dump to scrape up enough metal for money.
Kids with amputations running away from huts on fire because you know the Taliban are exercising their will on a village....the list goes on and on.

It's what you see and do over there that changes your perspective on the mission.

The fact that you may have to pull a trigger or deliver heavy ordinance to naughty people is literally just doing your job.

Regards

 

[wondersmoke]

To all of y'all who claims to know why a "sniper" would cope better with stress over regular soldiers.
READ ON!

I believe "snipers" cope better over regular soldiers because:

a) They were selected through countless "regular soldiers" to become "snipers", meaning they are obviously psychologically stronger than regular soldiers, and are more "elite" in a sense that they are more coldblooded ... however this obviously doesn't make them superior in anyway just more apt for a sniper and this vocation

b) They genuinely feel nothing or very little regard towards killing, statistically snipers have been satisfied with their jobs, and their jobs involve killing, so it's safe to say they are very resilient towards stresses of this nature. For example, they think of protecting their own troops over the "horror" of killing an enemy ... perhaps even killing an armed child would not stun the frame of a sniper, but this is debatable as all snipers still have morals and pride in their work.

c) They eliminate targets from far, it's less personal and more accurate. regular soldiers deal with close up and personal assaults, making their kills more memorable and less rewarding.

d) They don't have to fear IED as much as soldiers because IED tactics are targeted more towards troops for ambushes, etc. Only thing they they fear are other snipers, mortars, and being spotted & killed.

e) The mission fuels the sniper, while external factors are dealt with. This theory essentially means that internally the sniper is loyal and trained to do the mission, while externally he is trained to be calm and collective, and stick to the mission. So being selfless killers for a mission in summary. 

f) Pride and job satisfaction. There is nothing better than being seen as more "elite" and trained. Working with one other professional (spotter) is to some more rewarding than working with 6+ soldiers who are not as good as you. This is why they don't regret what they do.

~ I hope CF doesn't change the sniper team from 2 man team to 4 man team, as if it up to me, i would stick to 2 man team as its essentially better as it gives more responsibility rather than having a team of 4 which will cause drama, and competitive issues. 

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

To all of y'all who claims to know why a "sniper" would cope better with stress over regular soldiers.
READ ON!

I believe "snipers" cope better over regular soldiers because:

a) They were selected through countless "regular soldiers" to become "snipers", meaning they are obviously psychologically stronger than regular soldiers, and are more "elite" in a sense that they are more coldblooded ... however this obviously doesn't make them superior in anyway just more apt for a sniper and this vocation

b) They genuinely feel nothing or very little regard towards killing, statistically snipers have been satisfied with their jobs, and their jobs involve killing, so it's safe to say they are very resilient towards stresses of this nature. For example, they think of protecting their own troops over the "horror" of killing an enemy ... perhaps even killing an armed child would not stun the frame of a sniper, but this is debatable as all snipers still have morals and pride in their work.

c) They eliminate targets from far, it's less personal and more accurate. regular soldiers deal with close up and personal assaults, making their kills more memorable and less rewarding.

d) They don't have to fear IED as much as soldiers because IED tactics are targeted more towards troops for ambushes, etc. Only thing they they fear are other snipers, mortars, and being spotted & killed.

e) The mission fuels the sniper, while external factors are dealt with. This theory essentially means that internally the sniper is loyal and trained to do the mission, while externally he is trained to be calm and collective, and stick to the mission. So being selfless killers for a mission in summary. 

f) Pride and job satisfaction. There is nothing better than being seen as more "elite" and trained. Working with one other professional (spotter) is to some more rewarding than working with 6+ soldiers who are not as good as you. This is why they don't regret what they do.

~ I hope CF doesn't change the sniper team from 2 man team to 4 man team, as if it up to me, i would stick to 2 man team as its essentially better as it gives more responsibility rather than having a team of 4 which will cause drama, and competitive issues.

Says the mystery man with no profile filled out. I will give you a hint, the members here will judge you here on your posts and how much detail you have in your profile. Right now you don't have any so I recommend getting prepared for some negative posts. This is just a DS observation.

Milnet.Ca Staff

 

[Franko]

To all of y'all who claims to know why a "sniper" would cope better with stress over regular soldiers.
READ ON!

I believe "snipers" cope better over regular soldiers because:

An opinion and nothing more. Didn't even bother to read the rest.

Regards

 

[aesop081]

and their jobs involve killing, so it's safe to say they are very resilient towards stresses of this nature.

This hardly makes them unique within the Army.

c) They eliminate targets from far,

Again, snipers are not unique in this respect.

e) The mission fuels the sniper, while external factors are dealt with.

I dare to say that the same is true regardless of form of employment.

f) Pride and job satisfaction............ 

I dont see pride and job satisfaction as something limited to snipers, thus i dont see that as a factor.

 

[57Chevy]

a) They were selected through countless "regular soldiers" to become "snipers", meaning they are obviously psychologically stronger than regular soldiers, and are more "elite" in a sense that they are more coldblooded.

Bullcrap
First off, lets get something straight.
When a soldier calls himself "elite" it is because he is not.

 

[Franko]

Well this stops the debate right here:

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/98519/post-1007375.html#msg1007375

HA HA HA HA

 

[aesop081]

Another CoD4 commando.......

 

[Franko]

Another CoD4 commando.......

No no, you have it all wrong. NINTENDOSNIPERJTF2COMMANDOWANNABE aka Raaaaaay.

Ahhhh, I needed a good laugh today.

Regards

 

[wondersmoke]

Says the mystery man with no profile filled out. I will give you a hint, the members here will judge you here on your posts and how much detail you have in your profile. Right now you don't have any so I recommend getting prepared for some negative posts. This is just a DS observation.

Milnet.Ca Staff


Thanks for the heads up, I'm fairly new, just trying to connect people with J. Peter Bradley's information. I forget to mention this was all taken from J. Peter Bradley's research about sniper coping with stresses. In the paper, he compares the sniper team of 20 or so, against joint task forces who numbered around 600, and snipers have fared pretty well. I believe job satisfaction was compared against jtf and he claims it was a factor that helps them cope with stress in the field. The research stated that snipers don't get PTSD as much, have MORE fear, but less stress after, so in some way the sniper is not fearless, but more mentally stable and reliable.

Also if you have reasoning, the snipers are more prone to combat stress which is why they were picked. They are more psychologically fit to kill, and regarded as more "elite", however if you don't understand this completely, then you are not sniper material.

Cheers

 

[Michael OLeary]

Also if you have reasoning, the snipers are more prone to combat stress which is why they were picked. They are more psychologically fit to kill, and regarded as more "elite", however if you don't understand this completely, then you are not sniper material.

wondersmoke, before you start preaching "snipers" to anyone here, you should wait until you have some actual military experience. While you wait for the recruiting process to begin for you, start here by reading every sniper thread in these forums, You will find ones that explain in detail everything you will need to accomplish before you even get close to being placed on a sniper training course.  There is no fast track, no matter how special you think you may be.

 

[aesop081]

however if you don't understand this completely, then you are not sniper material.

You go back to playing black Ops....we will leave that kind of decision to actual snipers, k ?