Soldiers kicked out of military

[exgunnertdo]

I agree with Haggis, the NCdt said what he should have said - Unfortunately, he can't tell the reporter to go pound salt, (cause then we sound like we're hiding something  :)  He has to give a response, and he defended the system - you can't follow orders, you're gone.

Keep in mind - NCdts/OCdts come from all walks of life, sounds like this one is getting some good employment (assuming he's a future PAffO), not just photocopying and making coffee.  Doesn't appear to be out of his depth, either.

 

[RHFC_piper]

:rofl:

Mortarman Rockpainter.  I'm posting that picture in my office (RHFC unit recruiting office) and including it in all my Recruiting handouts... fantastic!  :cheers:

 

[Greymatters]

... contentious objector... 

Is that supposed to be 'conscientious objector', or is 'contentious objector' the new word for these people?

Ditto on the poster, right up there with the one about 'how about a nice big mug of STFU?"

 

[observor 69]

I'm sorry but my doctor has advised me that any exposure to the sight or sound of Steve Staples will make me violently ill and endanger my health.
Unfortunately I was exposed to 3 seconds of Mr.Staples yesterday while channel surfing and felt an immediate wave of nausea.
I have had to restrict myself from watching panel discussions were Mr.Staples is present to provide a "balanced" discussion.

 

[RHFC_piper]

Is that supposed to be 'conscientious objector', or is 'contentious objector' the new word for these people?

Yes... my bad.. The spell check in my brain was turned off...


But it still fits somewhat;

Contentious:
1. Inclined or showing an inclination to dispute or disagree, even to engage in law suits.

2. Involving or likely to cause controversy.

3. Having or showing a ready disposition to fight (not so much in this case)


But I digress;  Poor context / spelling, etc... which is why I'm not a novelist.

Ditto on the poster, right up there with the one about 'how about a nice big mug of STFU?"

Indeed.  If only I were allowed to post all those fantastic, sarcastic, and oh so non-PC posters in my office.  Maybe then I wouldn't get parents asking me if, when and where their child would be doing "missionary work", or have applicants ask me if they could join, but not use weapons or run, 'cause it's against their beliefs (yes... running... against their beliefs... right.)  Oh well... one can only dream.

 

[geo]

Oh well..... MYTH BUSTED...
The reserve soldier who was refered to in the Edmonton Sun article DID NOT get kicked out for his troubles.

While in Wainwright he asked to be returned to his parent unit.  Employment unit recommended that he be disposed of but, the fella was within his rights when he gave in his notice.

People may or may not agree with it being "right" to terminate his employment after all that workup training but, the rules and regulations say that he can.... and he did... case closed.

 

[Greymatters]

Indeed.  If only I were allowed to post all those fantastic, sarcastic, and oh so non-PC posters in my office.  Maybe then I wouldn't get parents asking me if, when and where their child would be doing "missionary work", or have applicants ask me if they could join, but not use weapons or run, 'cause it's against their beliefs (yes... running... against their beliefs... right.)  Oh well... one can only dream.

Hello, Id like to join a military unit but not have to run, fight, carry a rifle, and oh some unarmed missionary work would be nice....

Oh man, sanity check....

 

[geo]

Military unit that does not run, fight or carry a rifle?  Isnt' that the airforce?

 

[observor 69]

Military unit that does not run, fight or carry a rifle?  Isn't' that the airforce?

My job in the old NATO war task in Baden was to live in my HAS, service and repair a 104, be prepared to operate under NBCW conditions and if required defend the airfield, my HAS and aircrat. Seemed like enough for me. 

 

[RHFC_piper]

Hello, Id like to join a military unit but not have to run, fight, carry a rifle, and oh some unarmed missionary work would be nice....

Oh man, sanity check....

Not even joking.  Serious as a heart attack. 

Some days I wish I could post all the fantastic things which happen in my office... All the amazing things people put on their applications and all the awesome questions I'm asked.

People actually cringe when I tell them about the entry PT test... I had one applicant ask me if I was serious about the "Recreational Narcotic" questionnaire, then asked if it were really necessary for the military to do a criminal record check.
There are days when I just want to tell people where to go, how to get there, and what to do while there... but I just answer their questions and process paperwork as best I can... or just tell them the truth, which sends lots packing.

 

[Kiwi99]

Earlier I mentioned the guy who quit after work up and before deploy,ment.  I got another one.  We had another guy in the platoon who was a reservist who decided, the day after we got to Afghanistan, that he didn't want to be there anymore, for whatever reason.  And apparently, as a reservist, he had that right.  It took a long time to get him home, almost three months I believe,  in fact, he still had his HLTA.  He didn't really go on operations or anything, just stayed in KAF.  And it took forever to get a replacement.  I have no idea why he wanted to go home, and really don't care.  But for three months we were technically a man short.  So this whole option to go back if you don't like stuff, in my opinion, is crap.  Unless it's a family emergency, you are STAYING!!!  That goes the same for mental health issues as well.  After all, aren't we preached to about the positive effects of staying with your buddies?  Hell, war aint that bad, nobody screws with ya, get to do what ya want, that old chestnutt.

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

There's reg force guys in that boat as well

 

[geo]

Earlier I mentioned the guy who quit after work up and before deploy,ment.  I got another one.  We had another guy in the platoon who was a reservist who decided, the day after we got to Afghanistan, that he didn't want to be there anymore, for whatever reason.  And apparently, as a reservist, he had that right.  It took a long time to get him home, almost three months I believe,  in fact, he still had his HLTA.  He didn't really go on operations or anything, just stayed in KAF.  And it took forever to get a replacement.  I have no idea why he wanted to go home, and really don't care.  But for three months we were technically a man short.  So this whole option to go back if you don't like stuff, in my opinion, is crap.  Unless it's a family emergency, you are STAYING!!!  That goes the same for mental health issues as well.  After all, aren't we preached to about the positive effects of staying with your buddies?  Hell, war aint that bad, nobody screws with ya, get to do what ya want, that old chestnutt.

Kiwi
As per Canforgen 89/06 reservists are on "active service" the moment they leave Canada. 
They are to be treated like the regs and punished (where necessary) under the same regs as Regs. 
Scale of punishment is same as regs.
Soo... the same way as a reg may determine that he wants to get out once he is in KAF, he can be compelled to fulfill his duty - but, would you trust him with the rifle being operated next to you?

 

[Haggis]

We had another guy in the platoon who was a reservist who decided, the day after we got to Afghanistan, that he didn't want to be there anymore, for whatever reason.

This is not a new phenomenon.  My last tour was a winter tour which meant that one of the HLTA blocks fell over Christmas.  Following that block, there were literally dozens of requests for compassionate repats.  Surprisingly, none were from Reservists.

And apparently, as a reservist, he had that right.

Not really.   To expand upon what geo posted, CMP Instruction 20-04 states, in part:

"Res F members on Cl “B” and Cl “C” Res Svc serving outside Canada are on active service, and as such, are required to complete the period of service for which they volunteered.  Voluntary requests to cease that period of service will be subject to the same consideration as would apply to Reg F mbrs in similar circumstances."

 

[the 48th regulator]

Earlier I mentioned the guy who quit after work up and before deploy,ment.  I got another one.  We had another guy in the platoon who was a reservist who decided, the day after we got to Afghanistan, that he didn't want to be there anymore, for whatever reason.  And apparently, as a reservist, he had that right.  It took a long time to get him home, almost three months I believe,  in fact, he still had his HLTA.  He didn't really go on operations or anything, just stayed in KAF.  And it took forever to get a replacement.  I have no idea why he wanted to go home, and really don't care.  But for three months we were technically a man short.  So this whole option to go back if you don't like stuff, in my opinion, is crap.  Unless it's a family emergency, you are STAYING!!!  That goes the same for mental health issues as well.  After all, aren't we preached to about the positive effects of staying with your buddies?  Hell, war aint that bad, nobody screws with ya, get to do what ya want, that old chestnutt.

I find this hard to beleive.

Can you site me the clause which allowed him to claim his reserve status as being special.

Also, you lost me on the mental health issue portion, are you talking about someone who developes them on tour, and askes for help, or someone at home before the tour?

dileas

tess

 

[Kiwi99]

48th, I have no idea of the clause.  It's what the guy said and next thing we know, albeit 3 months later, he's going home.  If he was in fact given a special 'reprieve', it was not my decesion.  But when a guy decides he doesn't want to be there before even unpacking his kit, it is kind of strange.  You may find it hard to beleive because you weren't there when he told us he wanted to go home.  People with way more money allowed him to go, not me, so ask them.  As for the mental health, people who develop the problems in theater.  Every lesson they have ever given us says that it is best to stay with your buddies, so they should.  Even if they ask for help.  Thats as far as I am going to go with ref to menatl health, too many people get too emotional.

So there may not be a special clause related to this example.  Indeed, posts following mine, ie; Haggis, were able to highlight the issue better with more effective responses than simply finding stuff hard to believe.  But. 48th, it's good to see that we are at loggerheads again, you and I.  Always good to agree to disagree.

 

[the 48th regulator]

One more question, considering you feel we are not agreeing to anything yet again, was this guy a good troop all throughout the work up training?

Are you saying that no one, in the section, noticed that this guy was ready to implode at the drop of a dime, until the first day he got into theatre?

Thats right, I was not there so please clear things up for me.  I just feel there is more to your story than you have explained. 

dileas

tess

 

[Kiwi99]

48th,  he was not a great troop, neither was he a bag of $@&%.  And when we got to theater it was a bombshell on everyone, even his best buddies in the platoon were surprised. Now, he didn't implode, he just decide he didn't want to be there.  He still was for three months, even went on HLTA. 

 

[the 48th regulator]

Now, he didn't implode, he just decide he didn't want to be there.

My mistake then,

First day he was on the ground he decides he does not want to be there, no body saw this coming.

As per your post, he is allowed to do this because he was a reservist and had the right. So what do the the people of the Chain of command do? They keep him in country for another 3 months.

I will pull away, otherwise I will be blamed for inciting your ire.....

I just feel that the section level of cohesion would have caught something like that. Guess I am wrong, since I wasn't there.

Must be the new army, I guess.

dileas

tess

 

[Haggis]

48th,  he was not a great troop, neither was he a bag of $@&%.  And when we got to theater it was a bombshell on everyone, even his best buddies in the platoon were surprised. Now, he didn't implode, he just decide he didn't want to be there.  He still was for three months, even went on HLTA. 

Well, unlike another high profile repat on an earlier tour, he didn't attempt to use his head as a clearing bay, thereby endangering many others in the process.

Reg/Res:  it doesn't matter and it doesn't make a difference.  All have to meet the same standards to deploy and it is the C of C of the deploying unit and thier higher HQ who declares both the members and the unit OPRED, or "good to go!".

The press seized on the Reserve angle for the same reason they siezed that angle in the death of Cpl Boneca.  It sells papers.