Soldier sentenced for staying in bed during fight

[ggranatstein]

First of all. I agree that the sentence seems very lenient... People have been reduced in rank for less (as someone mentioned) - However, IIRC, sentencing someone to detention is higher on the punishment scale then reduction in rank. However, reduction in rank (to private it would have been) could have been included with the detention.

Second of all, and to play devil's advocate, everyone here is VERY harsh on this guy, perhaps rightfully so... But, do we know the whole story? No. Have all of us been in his shoes? Some yes, some no.

No excuse for what he apparently did, but he was judged and adjudicated according to our laws.

On top of his sentence, and much worse, in my opinion, he has to live for the rest of his life with this shame. The shame of letting down his comrades, the CF, and the Canadian public. It's something I would find very hard to live with.

At the end of the day, after my surprise and outrage, I don't feel bad for him, I think he should and could have got a lot worse, but I do pity him. He failed one of the greater tests of life.

The next time I'm in a similar situation, this example will certainly come to mind... We'd all like to say that we'll NEVER do what he did. But you only know for sure when that time comes...

[end of devil's advocate]

 

[M Feetham]

Hey piper,
It is a little of both I guess. The guys is not a grunt he is an Int Op I believe, so my question should have been shouldn't he have done some sort of work up training prior to deployment? The general part of the question comes more from my own interest in deploying if I get the chance. I'm not a grunt, i'm a dory plug so the best I can ever hope for is a GD deployment if the chance ever comes up. I have a lot of buddies who have been there though and they have all talked about pre-deployment training. I was just curious about the level of training he would have had. Thanks for the info.
Feet

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

EVERYONE does work up prior to deploying.

 

[Blue Trapper]

Now we see the name of Sgt Goodland being grabbed at by his defence, and Billard's previous and subsequent performace in his normal trade. Both are twisting what is obvious to anyone in the military, at that particular moment he was expected to act as a soldier should and decided he was smarter than the average bear and didn't have to, and his defence council seems to miss the point of what the judge says about the importance of maintaining discipline. In his statement from a report by Charles Mandel, CanWest News Service, Billard's lawyer says about the judge that "and there's doubt about it, he's made an example of my fellow"
http://www.canada.com/topics/news/national/story.html?id=0b662e30-ac75-4fe1-af38-f4f9769d8faa&k=68520

and then the comment about Sgt Goodland (from the canwest report)
In his defence, McMunagle cited the case of Sgt. D. A. Goodland. In 2003, Goodland fell asleep while on guard duty at Kandahar Airfield in Afghanistan and was subsequently given a severe reprimand and a $3,800 fine. “I tried to argue that what that guy did was worse than what my guy did,’’ McMunagle said.

Goodland was a member of a FOO party, 2 people should always be watching the zone, but IIRC there were 2 of them in the hole but only the sig was awake. Dumb, very very dumb, but not under fire.  I have met people from that tour over the years, and know Goodland well, as do I, I would consider him a good soldier and certainly someone I would trust. Consider where he's been lately
http://www3.thestar.com/cgi-bin/star_static.cgi?section=top&page=/Videos/070418_afghan_canadians.html
There was a lot involved behind the circumstances of what occurred with Sgt Goodland in 2002, but none that I can remember that sounds like a parallel could be drawn with Billard's incident.  

The whole point is to make an example of Billards incident of not accepting orders while under fire, and 21 days is not very much considering the effect if the sentence is suspended or over turned, good luck maintaining discipline then.

I knew Denis Goodland personally and he is a good NCO and a good leader. His Sig was telling me a different story when that FOO party got back from Op Apollo

 

[Roy Harding]

I was on the same tour as Sgt Goodland. 

In fact I was his Chief Clerk - the two cases are not comparable (as far as I can tell) - no matter what some lawyer (who has his client's best interests at heart, and will grasp at any straw he sees - as he should) says.

 

[RHFC_piper]

I was just curious about the level of training he would have had. Thanks for the info.
Feet

I can only speak for my tour... more specifically, about the trg I got in comparison to the trg my fellow Fusiliers got in other roles (NSE, Force Protection, etc.);

I found the trg with the Battle group to be excellent for the most part.  I learned more in 6 months with C Coy 1 RCR, than in 8 years of reserves... and all the training was geared to the mission and our roles in it.  In comparison; when I talked to the guys from my unit who were on force protection / convoy escort, they said they learned very little, and their training was almost pointless... they felt as though the were just "marking time" waiting for deployment.  And the guys who were on Gate Guard (NSE) from my unit arrived 2 months late to Petawawa, and left for the Stan 3 months before us, with only a month and change of work up.  But, everyone went through the Theater and Mission specific Training (TMST). 
So, as far as I know, everyone who goes over should be adequately trained for their jobs... and I'm sure the short-comings of the last tour will be corrected for the next tour.


BTW; If anyone here has other EXP with the NSE / force protection work up, feel free to correct me. This is just from the guys I talked to from my home unit, and may not reflect everyones experience.

 

[the 48th regulator]

I learned more in 6 months with C Coy 1 RCR, than in 8 years of reserves

Sweet Jesus,

Your statement is too bizarre.  I feel the exact same way, as I served with the same battallion, and the same company.  If I see you say the third platoon and the thirds section....I would have to say bizarre again...I drigress.

I agree, the training has been phenomenal, 20 years plus.

dileas

tess

 

[RHFC_piper]

Sweet Jesus,

Your statement is too bizarre.  I feel the exact same way, as I served with the same battallion, and the same company.  If I see you say the third platoon and the thirds section....I would have to say bizarre again...I drigress.

I agree, the training has been phenomenal, 20 years plus.

dileas

tess

Close... 8 Platoon (Crazy 8s - which would be the 2nd platoon in the Coy), 3 section


And I stand by my statement.  When I got back to my unit, it was like traveling back in time... They're still practicing cold war tactics and just scratching the surface of modern combat.... and doing nothing but VCPs....

 

[MikeM]

+1 Piper, same shit, different location.

 

[harry8422]

he should be in jail for life

 

[Franko]

he should be in jail for life

Life? 20+ years in jail.....that's a bit harsh.

I can see a few months to a year.....but life is going a bit far.

Regards

 

[mudrecceman]

+1 RBD...that doesn't seem to fit the offense IMHO.