Should Armour crew the TUA? Which type of unit should it be in?

[Yard Ape]

If TUA is consolidated into a Coy/Sqn for each brigade (or even just one for the country), should this be taken over by armour?  Armour fights mounted & TUA cannot be dismounted.  Infantry fights dismounted, so they can keep the TOW on Iltis/LUVW or tripod.

 

[Infanteer]

I would say yes, and TUA crewmen would come to the Infantry battalion just as LAV crewman would.

 

[bossi]

Interesting point - we have other non-infantry "techs" in inf bn (e.g. veh/wpn/med tech ...)
Somebody once told me the Aussies had created taxi regts (i.e. APCs without passengers)
Thus, the guys "behind the wheel/tiller bars" could concentrate on their "thing", and the biped/bipod infantry could focus on theirs ... hmmm ... (just like the veh/wpn/med techs get their trg from their corps ... hmmm ...)

And, after all - it's simply an extension of the "combined arms team" at a more basic level ... hmmm ...

Ya know, it's not the dumbest idea I've ever heard, as long as we don't go too far down the road of specialisation
(i.e. like the guys that can drive HUMVEEs, but can't change the tyres ... if ya catch my drift ...)

 

[Yard Ape]

I've heard talk of pulling TUA out of the infantry battalions to form a Bde anti-armour Coy.  I personally think this is wrong.  The range of TOW is appropriate to the Bn needs.

 

[bossi]

Sounds like a regrettable trend towards evisceration of the infantry ...
(i.e. first they took away the pioneers and mortars ...)

And, of course, the person(s) who thought this was such a great idea probably won't even be there when a Canadian infantry unit sustains heavy casualties because they lost their pioneers, mortars and TOW.

Can't help but wonder what's next ...  The radio's?  Bandages and shell dressings?  Rations?
Oh, well ... I'm sure it'll help somebody's PER (whereas anybody who opposes this will be labelled/libelled as a dinosaur).

Funny, isn't it?  We spent decades building and perfecting our infantry to be among the most capable and potent in the world ... and now ... they're being destroyed (not by the enemy, but from within).

 

[devil39]

Certainly not the ideal situation.   It is a PY issue I would guess.   Only so much money to go around.   Gotta feed CMTC, etc.

I don't know what our options are quite frankly.    We could start cutting entire units or continue deconstructing Combat support Coy, platoon by platoon, as we are doing now.   If they would hurry up with the Javelin or Gill I would happy to let the Armour corps keep the TUA.

 

[Yard Ape]

Now that the decision is public that Canada will consolodate all of its TUA in the LdSH, does anybody know if there is an intent to eventually replace the infantry crewmen with cavalry crewmen?

 

[Lance Wiebe]

Armour originally was issued the TOW, long before the Infantry took it over.  We (the armour) got rid of its last TOW units aomewhere around 1977 or 78.

The LdSH taking both the TUA and ADATS (MMEV) under command in the original order, said that in the short term they would be manned by Infantry and Air Defense.  I take this to mean that the LdSH will have armour trained soldiers operate it in the long term.

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

Last I heard all the TUA's in the west are going west Wainwright with crews from the 1VP and possibly 3VP manning them until the LAV TUA's come online then its anyone's guess.  I have the notice at work and could scan it if anyone really wants it.

 

[SALH]

I thiink the Decision has been made, the Strats will hold all the direct fire assets for the army starting Oct. I believe.

Thus all ADATS, TUA, and LEO will be housed in the Strats orbat, they will lose the Coyote and gain these assets.  When Leo is phased out with Stryker they will lose the LEO at that point.

Comments.....

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

If the Strats are losing the Coyote who will be taking over that role?

 

[SALH]

No clue.  Some Strats should be able to answer that one. 

But if you look at how this could play out, there would only be reserve recce in the west and no surveillance, hardly ideal.

 

[Coyote43D]

If the Strats are losing the Coyote who will be taking over that role?

The Strats won't be losing all their Coyotes. They'll still have Recce Squadron equipped with Coyotes. It would make no sense to take away 1 CMBG's brigade recce asset would it?

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

That's what I was confused about.

 

[Coyote43D]

I just found this on the army website

http://www.army.forces.gc.ca/lf/English/6_1_1.asp?id=216

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

"That means the anti-armour platoons in Infantry battalions are about to disappear," he said.  "It is not, however, a net loss to the Infantry. We're taking all of those people and resources and reinvesting them back in the rifle companies â ” we're reinforcing the rifle companies."

Then why is it that 1VP pers will be manning this.  The centralization of these types of assests are moronic at best.

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

"The elimination of anti-armour platoons in the infantry battalions with personnel not required to establish the LRAAW company being reinvested back into the rifle companies. "

Oh the reinvestment will be worth it and significant.  Ya right.

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

This plan is shortsighted and ill conceved.  In 5 years I expect a reversal of policies.  We do not have the necessary personal, equipment or resources for this plan, even if there goal is to make better use of what we have I just don't see it happenning.  Does this mean that the RCR or R22nd have to travel out west to use anti-armour assets.  If thats the case we have just majorly increased travel time, reduction in trainging etc.  We do not have enough equipment or troops to have this new laser take base plus fill all our normal duties.  Or put a stock pile of equipment on either cost "in case" we need to go some where.  This stock piling further reduces the equipment we need at the BN level.

 

[MG34]

tasking the TUA out to the armoured is one of the worst possible things they could have done. Yeah it now gives them something to do butit has also gutted the morale of the infantry Bns.The loss of Pnrs,Mortars and possibly TOW has gutted morale,not too mention taken away 3 advanced courses,this has played havoc with our carreer progression and crushed esprit de corps. It is a total waste of training time and money to re equip and retrain the black hats when the Infantry has perfected the use of the system and it's tactics.I hope this fragile house of cards crumbles fast.

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

Unfortunately when the cards fall we are underneath them.