Serial killer Olson threatens to sue federal government over benefits

[mariomike]

Public Safety Canada:
"A day in the life of an inmate":
http://www.publicsafety.gc.ca/prg/cor/acc/ff1-eng.aspx
"Inmates are expected to participate in programs, work, or study for six hours every weekday."

"Giving back to the community":
http://www.publicsafety.gc.ca/prg/cor/acc/ff3-eng.aspx

Union of Solicitor General Employees - PSAC:
"Ending prison farm programs hurts all of us!":
http://www.saveourfarms.ca/
"An Open Letter to Prime Minister Harper:
The Union of Solicitor General Employees is seriously calling into question your government’s decision to close Canada’s six prison farms. We believe this decision is not in the best interest of the farm program participants, nor in the best interest of the Canadian public."

"A bleak harvest for Canadian inmates: Ottawa to shutter agricultural program that has helped convicts tame the beast within by tending to beasts":
http://www.thestar.com/news/insight/article/708635--a-bleak-harvest-for-canadian-inmates

"Karla Homolka lives life of birthday cakes and baseball in “adult daycare,” ex-inmate says":
http://www.truecrime.net/karla/

Ontario:
"Workin' for the man":
http://www.mcscs.jus.gov.on.ca/english/corr_serv/adult_off/treat_prog/treat_prog_trilcor/treat_prog_trilcor.html

 

[SeanNewman]

MM,

Thank you for the links, but those are government websites and may not exactly represent the ground truth anymore than the CF website reflects the ground truth of what a day in the life of a soldier is like.

As usual, your resourcefulness and data mining is un-paralleled, though.

 

[mariomike]

MM,

Thank you for the links, but those are government websites and may not exactly represent the ground truth anymore than the CF website reflects the ground truth of what a day in the life of a soldier is like.

As usual, your resourcefulness and data mining is un-paralleled, though.

My pleasure, Petamocto!

My employment used to send me inside the Don, a provincial facility. I remember being sent into the "old Don" too, before they shut it down. It looked Spartan to me. I did not see much work going on other than cooking, cleaning and maintenance. Many of them were on remand, so there was not much for them to do but wait for sentencing.

"Tory privatization agenda":
http://www.nupge.ca/news_2006/n04ap06a.htm
"This approach fits with the strong pro-privatization ideology of the Harper government and the likelihood that it will try wherever it can to turn over a growing range of public services to private operators."
The union representing Federal corrections workers is against the idea. I saw a similar piece by OPSEU ( Ontario corrections workers ), also against the idea.

If interested in an American Cost/Benefit analysis:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_prison#Cost.2FBenefit_analysis

 

[stealthylizard]

I think that unfortunately, Olsen would win the case. The precedent WRT voting rights for the incarcerated virtually assures it. His legal team will argue that incarceration does not deprive persons of their Charter rights. Such incarceration is only a limitation on their right to mobility, which does not extend to all of their rights in general.

I can't find anywhere in the Charter which mentions CPP, or OAS, or anything else regarding retirement benefits.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

For those of you who work in corrections, what sorts of work do criminals do while inside that contributes to society?

I don't mean for themselves like getting a degree or learning skills, but the forced labour kind.  A little more give and a little less take.

I'm sure they're not all making license plates. 

While I agree they shouldn't be working 20 hour days like in Auschwitz, I do think they should be working their asses off and performing a service to justify some of that $100k+/yr it costs to hold them.

Obviously escape risks would have to be mitigated if it were outside the prison, but I would think all sorts of small businesses could be assisted by free labour, especially in today's world where a lot of the work could be done by computer inside the walls.

They're making your office and barrack furniture. Anything with CorCan on it. Means Corrections Canada.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

I can't find anywhere in the Charter which mentions CPP, or OAS, or anything else regarding retirement benefits.

If it were found to be against his Charter rights, it would be a good time to try out that notwithstanding clause that they keep talking about but never use.

 

[SeanNewman]

...Anything with CorCan on it. Means Corrections Canada.

Ahhh, cool, nice tidbit of info I hadn't picked up yet.

 

[mariomike]

Corcan makes lots of stuff:
http://www.csc-scc.gc.ca/corcan-catalogue/index-eng.shtml
"Military Equipment & Furnishings":
http://www.csc-scc.gc.ca/corcan-catalogue/7-eng.shtml

I was looking at laundry services:
http://www.csc-scc.gc.ca/corcan-catalogue/3-eng.shtml
"CORCAN operates two industrial laundry operations at Leclerc and Archambault Institutions in Quebec, including sorting, staging, and delivery services for a select client group in the Greater Montreal area."

I wonder if that would include CFLRS?

If inmates could do the linen for the hospitals, nursing homes, and EMS ( supposed to be changed every call ) in the GTA, that would be a huge industry. Clean linen was always a major logistical concern and expense. Sometimes, the situation was critical.

Obviously escape risks would have to be mitigated if it were outside the prison, but I would think all sorts of small businesses could be assisted by free labour, especially in today's world where a lot of the work could be done by computer inside the walls.

I was thinking of clean, inside work with no heavy lifting. Mostly sit-down work.
Like the garment industry. Our garment district downtown has fallen on hard times. You could go there and buy clothes straight from the manufacturer. Our clothing labels used to say "Made in Canada". Not so much now. Our clothing is now often produced in sweat-shops overseas.
I remember reading that Babe Ruth was taught tailoring at St. Mary's Industrial School for Boys ( basically a reform school ),  and became a qualified shirtmaker.
That was a long time ago, but it would be nice to see the "Made in Canada" labels re-appear on our shirts.

There is another idea for younger, able-bodied, low-risk inmates. Something like "The Civilian Conservation Corps":
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/features/photo-gallery/ccc/
The U.S. Army was put in charge of it, and it was considered to be a great success:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_Conservation_Corps#Legacy

The Army found itself between the wars, so manpower and equipment was not a major problem.

This is the modern version of the CCC:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AmeriCorps

 

[Retired AF Guy]

They're making your office and barrack furniture. Anything with CorCan on it. Means Corrections Canada.

Don't forget the metal shelving that I'm sure most of us have assembled at one time or another!

CORCAN also employs inmates when there is a renovation project in a prison (e.g. replacing windows in a cell block). They will bring in CORCAN staff (civilians), civilians contractors and inmates. The idea is for the contractors to teach the inmates a skill they can use after they are released from prison.

Besides the CORCAN jobs, inmates are also employed in the kitchen preparing meals, assisting institute maintenance personnel (e.g. electricians, plumbers, metal workers, carpenters) in their duties and menial stuff like mopping floors/washrooms/taking out garbage, etc.. 

 

[medicineman]

All our new furnishings in Kingston when I was there were made by Collins Bay's finest, and probably Millhaven, KP, Joyceville, etc ad nauseum.

They've got a good gig going as far as furniture sales, vehicle refurbs, etc go.

MM

 

[armyvern]

Perhaps even more. This is from 2006:
"It costs Corrections Canada $110,223 to keep a male inmate in a maximum-security institution for a year ($150,867 for a woman). Medium- and minimum-security inmates cost more than $70,000 a year.":
http://www.cbc.ca/canadavotes2006/realitycheck/crimetime.html

Now, for the life of me --- I can't understand this one.

$40 644 bucks a year more for a chick why!!?? For tampons & Midol?? WTF??

Or are we paying for the haidressing, parties, manicures and fashion shows ala Homolka still?

 

[Michael OLeary]

Surroundings that aren't simply cinder-block and concrete cost more:

[PDF] Grand Valley Institution for Women
http://www.csc-scc.gc.ca/text/prgrm/fsw/wos25_GrandValley/GrandValley_e.pdf

As a consequence, from 1995, CSC began to set up small institutions for federally-sentenced women, one in each of the five correctional regions; in addition to a Healing Lodge. Those institutions were an innovative attempt to put in place the five guiding principles of Creating Choices: empowerment, meaningful and responsible choices, respect and dignity, a supportive environment and shared responsibility. In 2000, the Kingston Prison for Women was closed.

The units in the new institutions have been designed as far as possible to normalize the experience of women in custody. Within a relatively low secure perimeter fence, women have free movement and small groups share houses in which they can take responsibility for themselves. They offer a radically different environment to that experienced in the majority of men’s prisons, or in women’s prisons elsewhere in Canada and in most other countries.

GRAND VALLEY INSTITUTION FOR WOMEN
Kitchener, Ontario
http://www.csc-scc.gc.ca/text/facilit/institutprofiles/grandvalley-eng.shtml

Grand Valley Institution (GVI) is a multi level facility located in Kitchener, Ontario. GVI opened in 1997 and can accommodate up to 118 inmates.

Inmates are housed in buildings (houses) arranged in campus style (clusters), one structured living environment house and one secure unit.

The Institution provides a positive and supportive environment focused mainly on women’s timely and safe reintegration.

 

[SeanNewman]

Vern,

Likely just a unit cost thing / economies of scale.

The theory goes that if you have two wings of segregated inmates, you need lights on in both, a cook working both, someone in charge of both, etc...even if there are 1,000 on one side and 50 on the other.

The true "per-head" cost my be close to the same.  Whatever feminine needs would be offset by the men generally eating 20% more or so due to being bigger.

[/hypothesis]

Added: As per below though, females may be more expensive after all.

 

[mariomike]

I came across this:
"The Costs of Incarceration":
◦Cost of incarcerating a Federal prisoner (2004/5): $259.05 per prisoner/per day
◦Cost of incarcerating a Federal female prisoner (2004/5): $150,000-$250,000 per prisoner/per year
◦Cost of incarcerating a Federal male prisoner (2004/5): $87,665 per prisoner/per year
◦Cost of incarcerating a provincial prisoner (2004/5): $141.78: per prisoner/per day
http://www.prisonjustice.ca/politics/facts_stats.html

They gave this as their source:
http://www.statcan.gc.ca/bsolc/olc-cel/olc-cel?catno=85-002-X&CHROPG=1&lang=eng

More about Ottawa's decision to close the prison farms, if interested.
CP24
May. 05 2010
"TORONTO — A $1-million price tag on milk for inmates at three Ontario institutions is providing new fodder for supporters of Canada's threatened prison farms.
They say the cost of replacing milk now produced at one of the country's six prison farms undercuts the case made by the Conservative government for closing down the farms, which are staffed by inmates.":
http://www.cp24.com/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20100505/100505_prison_farms/20100505/?hub=CP24Home

"A glowing article in the January 2006 edition of Correctional Service Canada publication "Let's Talk" extolled the virtues of the 400-hectare Frontenac Institution farm.
The most important virtue, according to the article, was "the positive changes it makes in inmates' lives." "

 

[OldSolduer]

Now, for the life of me --- I can't understand this one.

$40 644 bucks a year more for a chick why!!?? For tampons & Midol?? WTF??

Or are we paying for the haidressing, parties, manicures and fashion shows ala Homolka still?

Women offenders respond far differently to incarceration than men. Female inmates are far more difficult to manage than males, who are hard enough to manage as it is.

 

[armyvern]

Surroundings that aren't simply cinder-block and concrete cost more:

[PDF] Grand Valley Institution for Women
http://www.csc-scc.gc.ca/text/prgrm/fsw/wos25_GrandValley/GrandValley_e.pdf

GRAND VALLEY INSTITUTION FOR WOMEN
Kitchener, Ontario
http://www.csc-scc.gc.ca/text/facilit/institutprofiles/grandvalley-eng.shtml

Wow. What ever happened to "equal rights" for women?? Your links seem to show that we are treating (& paying exorbiant costs) convicted women very much with "kid gloves" unlike their male counterparts ... & I bet too, that those manicures & hairstyling costs are hidden in those "innovative" costs somehwere).

I bet the parents of Reena Virk are far from satisfied that the sadistic little wench Kelly Ellard is enjoying such creature comforts these days along with all her other female felon counterparts.

Unbelieveable. I'm just absolutely failing to see any kind of "deterrent" & "punishment" factors in the 'prison' (I certainly wouldn't describe them as that) set-ups outlined in your links.

 

[armyvern]

Women offenders respond far differently to incarceration than men. Female inmates are far more difficult to manage than males, who are hard enough to manage as it is.

Sure, we're bitchier, but ergo the tampon and midol costs.

As for "management" of women - they don't have to be harder to manage than male prisoners; the fact is that we 'allow" them to be more difficult to manage. Lock 'em down 23 hours a day too just like the guys ... treat them the same, then costs will even out. Of course they are all "hard to manage" because they don't conform to the rules and morals of average society ... & that's usually why their asses ended up in the clink in the first place.

Equal "rights" for women prisoners being "equal" treatment/punishment too and all that.  Or is that "equal rights" all for show?

 

[armychick2009]

Likely there are fewer women prisoners then men so you can shove more men into a prison with fewer resources. Also, there are some women's prisons that actually allow them to bring their infants and raise them in more of a 'home environment' for their first year I believe, if the woman was pregnant while sentenced/incarcerated.

Personally, I think it could be attributed to the high cost of providing chocolate during our monthlies and perhaps even, just on a regular basis to keep us from rioting.

It is interesting though, why don't you write the minister in control of prisons and ask him? They must get asked this regularly!

 

[OldSolduer]

OK I just fired this off to my local MP:

"Good day sir:

I noticed with interest in the last week or so that two individuals, one accused of murder and the other a convicted murderer are seeking recompense from our nation.
One is Omar Khadr, who has been accused of murder as a fifteen year old while in Afghanistan, and since capture has been held prisoner by the United States of America in Guantanamo Bay. Mr Khadr is accused of murdering an American soldier, a medical soldier, with a grenade.
Now Mr Khadr wants ten million dollars in recompense because his "rights" were violated by a Canadian CSIS official.

The second case I bring to your attention is Clifford Olsen, a convicted child serial killer. Mr Olsen has been incarcerated for a number of years, and is oone of Canada's most infamous serial killers. Mr Olsen is threatening to sue the Government of Canada if he does not receive his pension at age 65, claiming his "rights" will be violated.

Mr. Fletcher, our son Corporal Michael James Alexander Seggie, Second Battalion, Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry, Canadian Forces was Killed In Action on 3 September 2008. This is not what our son died for. He was not off in Afghanistan fighting so an accused terrorist can profit from his misadventures. Mike did not die in Afghanistan so Clifford Olsen could collect an old age pension and continue to haunt the memories of his victims families.

Mr Fletcher, we beleive that over thirty million Canadian citizens' rights have been violated by even entertaining the thought of paying these two individuals off. It insults the memories of over 100,000 Canadians who died during all our wars doing  their duty for their country. It makes a mockery of what well over one million Canadians who have served in the military have accomplished.

Mr Fletcher, we strongly encourage you to bring this to attention of the Prime Minister and the Canadian Parliament, and strongly encourage all Members of Parliament to "Just Say NO to Omar Khadr and Clifford Olsen".

Thank you for your time."

 

[mariomike]

Canadian Association of Elizabeth Fry Societies
(CAEFS):
"Human and Fiscal Costs of Prison ( Canada ):
The cost of imprisoning a woman in a federal prison is estimated by Corrections to average $175,000 per year and can be higher than $250,000 per year for women kept in the most isolated and segregated conditions of confinement, such as the segregated maximum security units in the prisons for women.":
http://www.elizabethfry.ca/eweek2010e/pdf/Human%20and%20Fiscal%20Costs%20of%20Prison.pdf

Poster:
http://www.elizabethfry.ca/poster.htm
"The number of women in prison increased 200% in the past 15 years."

Feb 20 2010:
"Provinces to spend $2.7B on prisons: OTTAWA–Provinces are spending $2.7 billion to expand or replace aging and overcrowded jails across Canada – with little public scrutiny, an Ottawa researcher says.":
http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/768637--provinces-to-spend-2-7b-on-prisons

June 23, 2010
Globe and Mail:
"The Conservative government's tough-on-crime agenda is also tough on taxpayers, with the cost of running prisons potentially set to more than double, says Parliament's spending watchdog.":
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/new-laws-to-send-prison-spending-soaring-watchdog-says/article1614182/

Jun 22 2010
"Federal prison bill to cost a billion dollars a year: Report":
http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/826778--tory-crime-bill-to-cost-extra-618m-per-year-report-finds

4 July, 2010
Montreal Gazette:
http://www.montrealgazette.com/opinion/editorials/Tough+crime+laws+tough+swallow/3234028/story.html