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Safariland 6004 BHP, Holster Mod

Eric_911

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Good Day all

My first post with a picture, I hope it works. I did a quick search, and although a thread or two eluded to the modification, nothing was very specific.

For the BHP to be holstered and cocked, a mod must be made to accomodate the hammer being in the cocked position.  Can anyone be a little more specific about the mod, for example, it the notch supposed to be cut at about 1cm x 1cm, or smaller?

Is this approximately where it should be cut?

main.php


Thanks,

Eric

 
Looks fine. Just take a BHP put it in the holster cocked and cut a notch with a gerber/hacksaw/shears till it fits. It's not terribly complicated. Also ditch the top strap and shorten the drop leg portion and it will ride much better.
 
There is no need to cut the strap to keep a BHP cocked while holstered as there is, in my experience, enough room for it.

Now if you want to be able to cock it when it's still holstered, that's where the cut comes in and your diagram looks GTG.

My 0.02 Duram worth.

Regards
 
OK.  Now you got me.  I'm trying to remember the Cocked and Half-cocked lessons I learned.  Unless I have it backwards, neither is a good thing for a loaded/rdy BHP in a holster.  Please correct me if I'm wrong.
 
George Wallace said:
OK.  Now you got me.  I'm trying to remember the Cocked and Half-cocked lessons I learned.  Unless I have it backwards, neither is a good thing for a loaded/rdy BHP in a holster.  Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Nope, you got it right. I have seen some guys have a round up the spout, manually de-cock it, then take the mag out and put in an extra round.

They would only have to cock the hammer or leave it in the "half bent" for easier cocking.

A bit much for a secondary weapon IMHO and mine was always loaded but never readied unless required.

Regards
 
Eric_911 said:
Good Day all

My first post with a picture, I hope it works. I did a quick search, and although a thread or two eluded to the modification, nothing was very specific.

For the BHP to be holstered and cocked, a mod must be made to accomodate the hammer being in the cocked position.  Can anyone be a little more specific about the mod, for example, it the notch supposed to be cut at about 1cm x 1cm, or smaller?

Is this approximately where it should be cut?

main.php


Thanks,

Eric

Eric_911,

My question is this - "Why didn't you buy the version that allows for Condition 1 carry?"  They are much easier to deal with and are readily available.  I am, in fact, thinking of making them the Regimental standard...


blake
 
Recce By Death said:
A bit much for a secondary weapon IMHO and mine was always loaded but never readied unless required.

Regards

The reason people don't carry thier weapons readied is because they are afraid of them. How are you going to know in advance if you need your secondary to be ready?  There should be only one condition of carry outside the wire, round in the chamber, hammer back, weapon on safe.
 
Big Red said:
The reason people don't carry thier weapons readied is because they are afraid of them. How are you going to know in advance if you need your secondary to be ready?  There should be only one condition of carry outside the wire, round in the chamber, hammer back, weapon on safe.

Not afraid of any weapon, I know my drills and follow them to the letter.

Things have to be pretty bad for me to have to use my 9mm.        ;)

Regards
 
So, you find it easier to play with the Safety in a hurry, than to allow "muscle memory" work on "cocking" the action as part of a normal reaction?  

I know.....personal preferences and experience/skill will dictate.
 
For a while Safariland was not selling the C&L version of the BHP 6004.

So we cut a half moon in the hoods
6004007.jpg


As for muscle memory -- do you carry your C8/C7 readied - yes you do, the BHP is the SAME principle - that is exactly what Cocked and Locked is.

Anyone recommending running a single action pistol in a non cocked and lcoked method is lacking in both knowledge of the pistols operation and/or the skill to run it.  I've taken pistol training from some the top military instructors in the world - and that is exactly how they teach operating it.

BigRed and I both run 1911 pistols in Iraq -- these are essentially the same principle as the BHP and we run them cocked and locked.

If your not carrying your pistol ready to go - then why carry it?  If you need a pistol - YOU NEED a pistol - you dont have time to run the slide or retardedly try to thumb back the hammer (which is ridiculously unsafe and I will go on a rant on that when I get back from a mission.)

More to follow



 
Big Red said:
There should be only one condition of carry outside the wire, round in the chamber, hammer back, weapon on safe.

+1 mon ami....

mudgunner49 said:
"Why didn't you buy the version that allows for Condition 1 carry?"

I did not know what the lead time was on these holsters. I have been looking around for a holster of this nature for a while. Went to R Nicholls and sitting all by its lonesome, calling my name, was the version which I purchased, pictured on my original post. Since I'm hitting the pistol range tomorrow for the last time until I deploy, I wanted to ensure I had some hands-on time with it. IMO, making the notch is a small price to pay for the peace of mind of knowing that this type of holster is the right one for me.

Infidel-6 said:
For a while Safariland was not selling the C&L version of the BHP 6004. So we cut a half moon in the hoods

Thanks for the pic I-6. Can you clarify for me the fol since I seem to getting a little bit of a conflicting msg:

Recce By Death said:
There is no need to cut the strap to keep a BHP cocked while holstered as there is, in my experience, enough room for it.

- Is the notch definately required on the backstrap to secure the weapon (The BHP) in the cocked position?

Big Red said:
Looks fine. Just take a BHP put it in the holster cocked and cut a notch with a gerber/hacksaw/shears till it fits. It's not terribly complicated. Also ditch the top strap and shorten the drop leg portion and it will ride much better.

Thanks for the tips Big Red, I'll give it a go with the ol' SOG on the range tomorrow.

Wow, I think I lit the quote button on fire.....

 
Infidel-6 said:
As for muscle memory -- do you carry your C8/C7 readied - yes you do, the BHP is the SAME principle - that is exactly what Cocked and Locked is.

I'm not in the habit of arguing with you or Big Red, but the Safety on the C7/C8 is not as likely to be a "bas tard" to operate as the Safety on the BHP. 
 
Quick question while you guys are talking about the BHP.

I have very limited experience with the weapon and pistols in general, and was taught to do all my drills in my right hand, even though I am left handed. I've always found this awkward and stupid as it requires me to take my control hand off the pistol, have I been taught wrong?

Sorry to be off topic but there isn't a hell of a lot of pistol experience where I am...
 
popnfresh said:
I have very limited experience with the weapon and pistols in general, and was taught to do all my drills in my right hand, even though I am left handed. I've always found this awkward and stupid as it requires me to take my control hand off the pistol, have I been taught wrong?

You were taught wrong. Your pistol should stay in your dominant hand.
 
Recce By Death said:
I have seen some guys have a round up the spout, manually de-cock it, then take the mag out and put in an extra round.

...Yeah..... I'm no expert, and please correct me if I'm wrong, but I really hope, that if a person did this "manual de-cocking" with a round in the chamber, that they left it at half cock, and not fully forward.

I'm pretty sure there is no "hammer blocking or firing pin blocking safety" on the BHP when the hammer is fully forward, and any sudden strike to the hammer (something falls/smashes/hits it) would possibly result in the weapon discharging.

If a person really adament about having that 14th round, why not just chamber a round, put the wpn on safe (none of this "manual de-cock"), top up your mag, re-insert, and then bob's-your-uncle? (Yes, the hammer is to the rear) Is this not the normal way of popping in the 13 + 1 the BHP is capable of accomodating?

Fecking around with decocking a weapon which is not made to decock seems a little...dangerous?
 
I've seen a lot of stupid people manually decock hammer FULLY forward (and thus no safety) with a round in the chamber -- they thought this was somewhat safer.
I've also seen CF members lower it manually to halfcock - and leave the gun there - off safe - thinking they could thumb it back quicker. 
Eric_911 - the CF pistols do not have a firing pin safety so you are correct this measure is extraordinarily dangerous.  I would recommend charging those who perform either of the two above method with negligent performance of duties.

George, I agree that the safety on the No.2 Mk1* Inglis pistols is not ideal -- however with some time on the pistol and some work oiling it and working it on and off - you can get it so you are very easily able to drawn, punch out while coming off safe and firing in one smooth motion.

Since most of the CF mags are in a bad way - there is no way I would be topping of the mag after chambering one.

BigRed is 100% correct - your dominant hand is the one to do the drills with, I'm not a lefty but a few of my firends are and they have been doing drills with BHP and Sig's with their left hands -- you then need to ensure you have a left handed holster too.


For cutting the hood - it will depend upon which version of the BHP you have -- I needed to cut mine to lock the hoodstrap when I got mine in order to retain my BHP - as it could not be carried C&L with the hood latched.



 
Eric_911 said:
- Is the notch definately required on the backstrap to secure the weapon (The BHP) in the cocked position?

When you go to the range, try it out and cut for clearance until it's right.

Infidel-6 said:
I've seen a lot of stupid people manually decock hammer FULLY forward (and thus no safety) with a round in the chamber -- they thought this was somewhat safer.
I've also seen CF members lower it manually to halfcock - and leave the gun there - off safe - thinking they could thumb it back quicker. 

People wonder why they have NDs 'eh? Seen it too many times with people of a higher rank than mine and tell me they know what they're doing.

Two weeks later they have an ND.

PM inbound.

Regards
 
Just got back from the range. (Did not get to shoot as much as I would have liked, I guess them's the breaks).

Carved up the holster as described, and it works pretty good with the hammer in the rear position. (C&L)

main.php


Thanks all for the tips.

Cheers,
Eric

 
Infidel-6 said:
I've seen a lot of stupid people manually decock hammer FULLY forward (and thus no safety) with a round in the chamber -- they thought this was somewhat safer.
I've also seen CF members lower it manually to halfcock - and leave the gun there - off safe - thinking they could thumb it back quicker. 
Eric_911 - the CF pistols do not have a firing pin safety so you are correct this measure is extraordinarily dangerous.  I would recommend charging those who perform either of the two above method with negligent performance of duties.

George, I agree that the safety on the No.2 Mk1* Inglis pistols is not ideal -- however with some time on the pistol and some work oiling it and working it on and off - you can get it so you are very easily able to drawn, punch out while coming off safe and firing in one smooth motion.

Since most of the CF mags are in a bad way - there is no way I would be topping of the mag after cambering one.

BigRed is 100% correct - your dominant hand is the one to do the drills with, I'm not a lefty but a few of my firends are and they have been doing drills with BHP and Sig's with their left hands -- you then need to ensure you have a left handed holster too.


For cutting the hood - it will depend upon which version of the BHP you have -- I needed to cut mine to lock the hoodstrap when I got mine in order to retain my BHP - as it could not be carried C&L with the hood latched.

I agree with I-6 in regards to the half cock and de-cocking manually issues, both are ridiculous and dangerous for the BHP. And Big Red is right as well in regards to left handed functions and drills, it would be nice to have ambidextrous controls, but the lefties can get used to getting the slide lock and mag release with their left index fingers, it takes time and practice. I can do it quite well, as do many of my students and I'm right handed. Hopefully a change to a more updated system is in the future....probably distant future.

However, the issue of carrying the pistol cocked and locked is not as cut and dried as presented, and being somewhat involved in the debate with the CF as I have been over the last three years, I feel somewhat qualified to comment. In regards to those individuals who get appropriate levels of training, and opportunities to practice sufficiently, there is no issue with carrying the pistol fully readied, round in the chamber, manual safety engaged.
However, we all know that many of those issued the BHP, have little or no training, have little or no opportunity to practice, and/or little or no desire to.( don't flame yet ) The comparison in the state of readiness between the primary weapon and the secondary is probably unfair, of-course the primary is readied, it is after all, primary. The failure of the primary weapon will result in the first IA, hopefully to produce the effect of repairing whatever stoppage and re-engaging the threat, if that fails then the second IA will likely produce the desired result. If not? then transition to the secondary weapon. Many have done away with the IA's alltogether and initiated the transition immediately upon stoppage of the primary, and given the training and imminent threat, this may very well be the appropriate action. And if the BHP is carried hammer down on an empty chamber it MAY/MAY NOT take a fraction of a second longer to cock it on the draw than to dis-engage the safety, given the operator has had sufficient time to practice and that the operator has use of both hands/arms. All kinds of variables come into play here.

My school of thought is that the thumbs don't seem to work very well under stress, and hitting that little tiny safety when the moment of truth comes, may prove to be more difficult then ripping the slide back with the base of the palm and all four fingers while driving the pistol out towards the threat. I have had two groups, trained in one method each, on the range simultainiously, and the folks cocking on the draw were quite a bit faster in fact, than those trying to hit that safety. ( and this only under the stress of trying to look competant ) Practice can overcome this, and in the case of I-6 and Big Red it's probably not an issue.

My point is this, for the majority of CF members issued the pistol, I believe the threat of a ND due to the weapon being cocked and locked: Is greater when handled by someone trained to a level less than what is required, or carried in such a manner that the safety may become dis-engaged, such as in ill fitting holsters (Bianchi etc) or stuffed in mag pouches (ouch!). And may present a greater danger than the likelyhood of having the primary weapon malfunction, with an immediate threat that requires the use of the secondary weapon, in such a circumstance, that having to cock on the draw, would make the difference in that particular incident. ( Clear as mud, see?)

Of-course it would be ideal if everybody carried the pistol ready, but until the training issues are remedied, I believe it is impractical and even dangerous in many cases.  Doesn't mean we give up on the training, just means we try harder to get everyone up to speed.

Stay Safe



 
Or, if they're not qualified to employ the weapon properly, don't issue it to them?

 
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