Russia's Mistral class LHDs: updates

[CougarKing]

The never-ending Mistral saga?

Reuters

France's Hollande moots cancellation of Mistral deal with Russia

PARIS (Reuters) - French President Francois Hollande on Wednesday explicitly evoked the cancellation and reimbursement of a frozen contract to sell Mistral helicopter carriers to Russia two days before meeting with Vladimir Putin.

Paris suspended the delivery of the warships last year after Europe decided to impose sanctions against Russia over the separatist conflict in neighboring Ukraine.

"On the Mistrals, all options will be addressed," Hollande told journalists after meeting Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko. Hollande and Putin are due to meet on Friday in Armenia.

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[CougarKing]

A new development:

Military.com

France OK to Refund Russia if Warship Not Delivered

Associated Press | Apr 23, 2015 | by Sylvie Corbet

PARIS  — French President Francois Hollande has acknowledged for the first time that France will have to give Russia a refund if it doesn't receive the Mistral-class warship whose delivery has been suspended last year because of the conflict in Ukraine.

"If you don't deliver, you must refund. So far, the delivery of the Mistral is not possible," Hollande said at a press conference Wednesday with Ukrainian counterpart Petro Poroshenko.

A top French diplomatic official told journalists, including an AP reporter, that France has started negotiating refund payments in order to avoid paying financial penalties in case the deal is not fulfilled. He spoke anonymously because he was not authorized to disclose details of the negotiations with Russia.

Last week Russian President Vladimir Putin warned France that Russia expects its advance payments to be refunded if the ship isn't delivered.

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[Colin Parkinson]

and to be fair they should, they knew the risk going into the deal and you can bet Russia will never do a deal with them again.

 

[Halifax Tar]

and to be fair they should, they knew the risk going into the deal and you can bet Russia will never do a deal with them again.

Meah no biggie.  Sounds like a way to isolate them further.  Let them R&D their own kit.  That should eat up their dwindling rescourse even further.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

But, since the French don't need them and are themselves a bit short on cash, that would leave two brand new Mistrals, with higher hangars, ice capable hulls and extra insulation/heating systems fully available …

 

[blacktriangle]

But, since the French don't need them and are themselves a bit short on cash, that would leave two brand new Mistrals, with higher hangars, ice capable hulls and extra insulation/heating systems fully available …

For someone other than Canada, maybe. We are losing basic capabilities faster than we can replace them. Truth be told, I don't think we can even maintain a Reg Force of 68k.

 

[Kirkhill]

But, since the French don't need them and are themselves a bit short on cash, that would leave two brand new Mistrals, with higher hangars, ice capable hulls and extra insulation/heating systems fully available …

What Spectrum said OGBD....

You would need a decade of hard-chargers, all of a like mind and all supported by and supportive of the policy of the government of the day before anything like those ships would be flying the Canadian Ensign.

 

[jollyjacktar]

Not to mention that these ships have had Russians running all over them like lice for some time now.  Who know's what sort of mischief they could/would get up to if they knew they were being pulled out if the deal goes south.  Plus they would know the ships inside and out as well.  Personally, I'd be looking at it as a Trojan Horse of sorts.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Basically they can monkey with the current electronics, but I suspect we would yank most of that out and install more compatible stuff anyways. I am not sure if they still have access, I thought that was cutoff earlier in the dispute?

I suspect these ships would be like the C17, as soon as they are ready the GOC will have us using them and since we seem to be struggling to find things for 1400 sailors to do, manning them would not be an issue.

I suspect that the French could redo all the signage and manuals in a couple of months, sail them to Canada and revamp all the domestic electrical to run 110/220. Keep one in hot lay up and run the other one.

The biggest issue is their minimal self-defense suite, which could be beefed up at some point. I would also buy some CB-90 patrol/landing boats in addition to the regular landing craft.   

 

[Loachman]

And I'm sure that we could find something to fill the space left behind after removal of the vodka tanks.

 

[ModlrMike]

The flight deck would make a good platform for that recently publicized ASW drone...

 

[Retired AF Guy]

Here is a good info graphic slideshow that gives you an idea of the Russian Mistral class capabilities:

http://sputniknews.com/infographics/20150220/1018526586.html

 

[Rifleman62]

Command & Control Center
150 duty stations

The command center (size – 850 square meters) has a capacity of up to 150 duty stations.

It would have to be tripled at least for a Cdn HQ C2. :nod:

 

[ringo]

IMHO these ships would be ideal for RCN fit Phalanx and SeaRam complete fitting out in Canadian yards, would be biggest improvement to CAF since C17's, Vimy Ridge and Juno Beach would be great names.

 

[YZT580]

cheaper to stay with the current power system and supply personal gear as required.  Things like computers, stereos, razors or whatever can be issued as part of crewing.  Any other gear can be bought in either voltage system from the manufacturer.  Re-wiring a ship of that size to 110 is a monumental and a potential show stopper.  As for names, Verrieres and Veritable would be appropriate.

 

[blacktriangle]

The biggest issue is their minimal self-defense suite, which could be beefed up at some point.

Oh really? That's the biggest issue we'd have with these ships?

What about PAYING for them?

We don't need these ships. We shouldn't WANT these ships. We definitely CANNOT afford these ships.

Before we start daydreaming about fictional names for Canadian ships that will never be, how about we get our troops some mukluks and working trucks? How about we get new AORs and Frigates online, and some helicopters to put on them? I could go on ALL day about things we actually NEED.

This whole thread is starting to feel like a CASR article! Talk about the Mistrals all you want, but this is NOT the right platform for Canada. Let's stop kidding ourselves.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

Oh really? That's the biggest issue we'd have with these ships?

What about PAYING for them?

We don't need these ships. We shouldn't WANT these ships. We definitely CANNOT afford these ships.

Before we start daydreaming about fictional names for Canadian ships that will never be, how about we get our troops some mukluks and working trucks? How about we get new AORs and Frigates online, and some helicopters to put on them? I could go on ALL day about things we actually NEED.

This whole thread is starting to feel like a CASR article! Talk about the Mistrals all you want, but this is NOT the right platform for Canada. Let's stop kidding ourselves.

An excellent post.  We don't need this capability and like you said, we certainly can't afford it with our present funding level and ambition.  If we need sealift, we are better off renting it on an as-required basis. 

 

[jollyjacktar]

Need this capability?  I suppose "no", is, at this time the correct answer, however, it is something we could use and would be advantageous.  That being said, it is at this time something we cannot afford with the budgets we're given.

Renting sea lift has been problematic in the past and is not necessarily the panacea to cure all ills either.  End story?  There's no easy answer.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

Need this capability?  I suppose "no", is, at this time the correct answer, however, it is something we could use and would be advantageous.  That being said, it is at this time something we cannot afford with the budgets we're given.

Renting sea lift has been problematic in the past and is not necessarily the panacea to cure all ills either.  End story?  There's no easy answer.

I don't disagree that we wouldn't find uses for them; however, we don't have any sort of  pressing strategic imperative which would require us to get these ships so I see no real need for them. 

Renting sealift can be a pain in the rear but for how often we "really need it" it's probably the DS solution.

I'd love to have an Armoured Division, doesn't mean we actually need one.

 

[jollyjacktar]

Trouble with renting.  Do you remember the GTS Katie?  They held the GoC hostage with our gear on board and ended with it being forcefully boarded by NBP personnel to take over the ship and end the drama.  We don't need that to happen again for this reason is why I'm not comfortable with renting from commercial entities. 

As for having the capability at hand.  Yes, it's hard to know (unless you have a crystal ball) when you might need it.  Humanitarian lifts such as Katrina or Haiti come all of a sudden.  We should have the ability to respond as needed.  We no longer have our AOR lift possibilities such as it was.  And this is why I say we could "use" the ability.  We just can't afford it with the allowance Mum and Dad give us.