Russell Williams charged in 2 x murders, confinement, sexual assault.

[SeanNewman]

Zipperhead,

You have my respect in this discussion as someone who has more prisoner experience than most, and your assessments on why you believe prisoners act the way they do have been noted.

Nobody has suggested he has special powers or deserves special attention.

I was only making the distinction that until very recently he had command over thousands of people, where as a movie celebrity is only a jester.

Yes he is just a prisoner now and no different than the others he is with, a person who had command or operational dealings with him are bound to take more interest than a movie celebrity would garner from fans.

I fully agree with you that celibrity can just as easily mean bad as good.

He is unquestionably the same as other prisoners and unquestionably different at the same time, both of which can be argued with 100% correctness.

 

[Staff Weenie]

I am inclined to believe that this is a very calculated move on his behalf.  His alleged crimes would seem to indicate a psychopath personality disorder – an ability to commit terrible crimes with no empathy for the victim, no conscience, and no remorse at all.  Yet his act would seem to show, or is calculated to show, ‘remorse’.  Or, perhaps it is his way of maintaining control – the only aspect over which he still has control is his very existence.  By ending it, he demonstrates that society had no power over him.

By no means do I believe it at all demonstrates any contrition on his part.  He is most probably extremely intelligent, and extremely manipulative, this is one more act in the play he’s staging.

 

[Steel Badger]

A cardboard tube down the yap does not say suicide, it says" cry for help" or cry for judicial sympathy".

Inmates that really WANT to end it all most often succed, despite the best efforts of Unit officers.

This chap is playing to his intended audience.

 

[mariomike]

I was sent into suicide scenes all my working life. Usually, they were unsuccessful. After a while, it begins to take a toll on you. The in-custody suicides were much easier, because you did not have to consol the family. 

 

[George Wallace]

Time for a lot of you to do the "Conduct after Capture" class again.  Looks like he is in Phase II.

 

[1feral1]

Suicide watch eh, hummmm.

We had a mass-murderer here who emptied his toothpaste tube and then swallowed that, choking etc, but since he was being observed via cam on suicide watch, he was immediatly taken away, and the tube removed from his throat. It is still alive.

Maybe Ross should try this method, should he think of taking the easy way out?

Another bloke, the notorious Ivan Milat, the backpack serial killer, recently somehow cut off his pinky and ate it before it could be retrieved by staff. I wonder if it was 'finger licking good', ha!

OWDU

 

[mariomike]

Another bloke, the notorious Ivan Milat, the backpack serial killer, recently somehow cut off his pinky and ate it before it could be retrieved by staff. I wonder if it was 'finger licking good', ha!

"Serial killer Ivan Milat will spend the rest of his life without freedom and also without the little finger on his left hand after he severed the digit with a plastic serrated knife":
http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-national/medics-unable-to-reattach-milats-finger-20090127-7qg5.html

He didn't actually eat it.:
"He was taken to Goulburn Base Hospital along with the finger with hopes it could be reattached, but a corrective services department spokeswoman said the procedure was not possible."

"with hopes it could be reattached" I bet.
I wonder if it "accidentally" got dropped down the toilet? "I'm sorry about that, sir."

Says he has a history of swallowing razor blades and parts of his toilet!

There is also some discussion about the financial burden of guarding high maintenance prisoners for the rest of their unnatural lives.

He sounds like a real piece of work:
http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/serial_killers/predators/milat/discovery_1.html?sect=3

I thought they only got spoons? I've seen the guards at the Don count and lock them. Spaghetti Day must be interesting.

 

[1feral1]

Thanks for the clarifiction on the 'not eating', as I had read somewhere he did or attempted to, but your souce was and is much more reliable.

Yes ole Ivan is a real classic, and one good reason why the gallows should be returned to service.

Cheers,

Wes

 

[SeanNewman]

Not necessary to start a new thread out of this since it's applicable to the subject, but for the police/guard crowd what is the SOP for a hunger strike? 

I would imagine at some point he would have to be forced to consume something.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Not necessary to start a new thread out of this since it's applicable to the subject, but for the police/guard crowd what is the SOP for a hunger strike? 

I would imagine at some point he would have to be forced to consume something.

That is not necessarily the case, if worse comes to worse than the Senior Medical Consultant and the Director, Legal Services are consulted and that's all I can say.

 

[mariomike]

Not necessary to start a new thread out of this since it's applicable to the subject, but for the police/guard crowd what is the SOP for a hunger strike? 
I would imagine at some point he would have to be forced to consume something.

Stuart McGetrick, a Toronto spokesman for the Ministry of Correctional Services, had this to say, "We can't compel an inmate to consume food or fluids. If an inmate required medical attention, they would receive it."
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2010/04/08/williams-hunger-strike.html

"If an inmate becomes weak or incapacitated because of a hunger strike, medical care will be provided, including the possibility of transferring the prisoner to an outside hospital."
http://www.intelligencer.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=2524593

I guess the medical question is, "How long can a hunger strike last?":
http://www.slate.com/id/2102228/

 

[SeanNewman]

MarioMike,

Thank you once again...you are quite the researcher!

That last article brings up an interesting question because it seems like "cheating" to some extent to take vitamins, salt, or specifically water in order to prolong it.

I wonder what goes on in the head of someone who plans a hunger strike who is also willing to draw it out.  More importantly, is it really a strike at all if you are still willfully consuming selected things?

If you want to kill yourself by starving, why eat or drink anything?  Why still drink water to extend a few days into months?  If you just want attention, what sort of special treatment are you going to get?  It's not even like protesters who do it to draw attention to their cause.

It's just bizarre.  I like to understand things and I don't get this.

 

[mariomike]

It's just bizarre.  I like to understand things and I don't get this.

Guards will document meals served, and meals refused. Jail management will monitor the documents. Doctors will monitor the prisoner. PR people will issue statements to the reporters so they can keep us news readers informed. I can understand all that. Rules and procedures must be followed in every organization.

What I wish there was a fast answer to, is when you have to rush a little kid into hospital because the parents couldn't be bothered to feed her or him. How do you prevent that from happening? 

 

 

[OldSolduer]

Stuart McGetrick, a Toronto spokesman for the Ministry of Correctional Services, had this to say, "We can't compel an inmate to consume food or fluids. If an inmate required medical attention, they would receive it."
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2010/04/08/williams-hunger-strike.html

"If an inmate becomes weak or incapacitated because of a hunger strike, medical care will be provided, including the possibility of transferring the prisoner to an outside hospital."
http://www.intelligencer.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=2524593

I guess the medical question is, "How long can a hunger strike last?":
http://www.slate.com/id/2102228/

Having been a Correctional Officer for almost 10 years, this information is correct.

I beleive Bobby Sands (IRA terrorist) lasted 66 days before dieing.

 

[mariomike]

Having been a Correctional Officer for almost 10 years, this information is correct.
I beleive Bobby Sands (IRA terrorist) lasted 66 days before dieing.

Silverback, there was a movie made recently on the subject.:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunger_(2008_film)

 

[Tank Troll]

I was just recently on course with some guys from Trenton that served with him, and from what I gather he was pretty Narcissistic.

 

[OldSolduer]

I was just recently on course with some guys from Trenton that served with him, and from what I gather he was pretty Narcissistic.

Typical characteristic of serial criminals. John Douglas and Robert Ressler developed psychological profiling. "Anatomy of Motive" is a good read!

 

[mariomike]

Typical characteristic of serial criminals. John Douglas and Robert Ressler developed psychological profiling. "Anatomy of Motive" is a good read!

If convicted of both murders, technically he would not qualify as a serial killer:

"With only two confirmed kills, Ed did not technically qualify as a serial killer (the traditional minimum requirement was three), but that did not deny him immediate entry into the pantheon of folk mythology."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_killer

 

[OldSolduer]

He's got two murders right now, plus two sexual assaults where he didn't kill. Close enough don't you think?

 

[SeanNewman]

He's got two [alleged] murders right now...

May also accept the words "extremely probable", but such is the legal system we defend.