Russell Williams charged in 2 x murders, confinement, sexual assault.

[GK .Dundas]

Having read more of today's testimony, I am increasingly convinced that a court martial for "Scandalous Conduct" as a minimum should be held.  His betrayal of trust as a military leader in the assault and murder of a subordinate provides a clear military nexus.

Or, to translate into the vernacular, he's a b*stard and a son-of-a-b*tch, but he's our b*stard and our son-of-a-b*tch, so we have to make a clear, open denunciation of him and his conduct.  Dismissal with disgrace; not dismissal for misconduct.


(Edit to defeat the naughty words filters)

Probably wont happen, I suspect the senior Brass are currently sitting with their heads buried in the sand devoutly hoping this all goes away.It would require them to to take responsibility And I'm very much afraid we're not as far from Somalia as we like to think.
Personally I like to see him broken busted down to 2nd LT  and have the whole Hollywood number done on him .
you know  publicly have his badges of rank and  and medals torn off and ground into the dirt . stripped of his uniform even down to having his sword broken.
I suspect the worst they'll do is send him a badly written form letter.
I don't even think there are words to describe my feelings about this whole business.

 

[dapaterson]

I am not as disheartened as you; I'm not going to hold my breath for a court-martial, but I do think the administrative actions will be done - but they ahve to be done right, and we're dealing in some very seldom-used parts of the regulations - so DND/CF, being DND/CF, will be slower than some might like.

 

[chris the merc]

Won't Mr. Williams be sent to Edmonton for two years?

 

[krustyrl]

Having been posted to 8Wg in '99 to '10 , I am without a doubt speechless.     

 

[Michael OLeary]

Won't Mr. Williams be sent to Edmonton for two years?

No, he's not being tried by the military justice system.

 

[chris the merc]

No, he's not being tried by the military justice system.

You can ONLY be sent to Edmonton if you were convicted by a military court but not if you were convicted by a civilian court?

 

[dapaterson]

Won't Mr. Williams be sent to Edmonton for two years?

Only if sentenced by a court martial.  Criminal Code charges like those he's plead guilty to do not result in time at the military jail.

Criminal code = civilian jail

Court martial = military jail

 

[OldSolduer]

Won't Mr. Williams be sent to Edmonton for two years?

Doubt it as this is a Criminal Code of Canada jurisdiction. I'm sure the legal eagles here will correct me if I'm wrong.

I think he'll be sent to Protective Custody immediately.

 

[aesop081]

You can ONLY be sent to Edmonton if you were convicted by a military court but not if you were convicted by a civilian court?

Seems self-explanatory.

 

[chris the merc]

Only if sentenced by a court martial.  Criminal Code charges like those he's plead guilty to do not result in time at the military jail.

Criminal code = civilian jail

Court martial = military jail

But, Kyle Brown served time at Edmonton and he was charged with a criminal code offence.

 

[aesop081]

But, Kyle Brown served time at Edmonton and he was charged with a criminal code offence.

Kyle Brown was not tried in a civil court.

 

[Michael OLeary]

But, Kyle Brown served time at Edmonton and he was charged with a criminal code offence.

He was Court Martialled, which can include charges under the Criminal Code.

http://www.forces.gc.ca/somalia/vol1/v1c1e.htm

The Canadian Forces responded in many ways to the death of Shidane Arone and other incidents that occurred in Somalia. Several courts martial, arising mostly though not exclusively from misconduct relating to the death of Shidane Arone, were launched and concluded. A court martial trial began against Master Corporal Clayton Matchee, the person who allegedly beat Shidane Arone to death. The trial did not proceed, however, because injuries resulting from an apparent suicide attempt rendered MCpl Matchee unfit to stand trial. The most prominent court martial was arguably that of Private Kyle Brown, who was convicted of manslaughter and torture in the death of Mr. Arone. In some cases, appeals of the courts martial arising from the Somalia operation were launched. Other individuals involved suffered sanctions less severe than imprisonment upon conviction.

 

[OldSolduer]

Kyle Brown was also engaged in an operation in Somalia, therefore the NDA has jurisdiction.

 

[chris the merc]

Great thread.

I also want to add that I have read that he is going to be stripped of his rank AND medals.

Strip the rank, fine, but his medals????????? That is going too far, I believe.

Medals are like awards, they are yours for life. If someone committed a crime and won a nobel peace prize, they would not strip him of that.

 

[the 48th regulator]

Great thread.

I also want to add that I have read that he is going to be stripped of his rank AND medals.

Strip the rank, fine, but his medals????????? That is going too far, I believe.

Medals are like awards, they are yours for life. If someone committed a crime and won a nobel peace prize, they would not strip him of that.

Yes they would.

Now Chris, trundle over to your thread about the movie we were going to make.  I have been waiting for a long time, for you to comment about my ideas.

dileas

tess

 

[Nfld Sapper]

Great thread.

I also want to add that I have read that he is going to be stripped of his rank AND medals.

Strip the rank, fine, but his medals????????? That is going too far, I believe.

Medals are like awards, they are yours for life. If someone committed a crime and won a nobel peace prize, they would not strip him of that.

So they are going to strip him of 2 medals,  South-West Asia Service Medal and a Canadian Forces Decoration big freaking deal......

 

[Michael OLeary]

Although I am not aware of the specific terms for doing so, the Order in Council for the Canadian Forces Decorations does include reference to forfeiture of the award.  The 1981 version of the Order in Council refers to the Queen's Regulations and Orders regarding forfeiture.

Reference: The Canadian Forces' Decoration, by Christopher McCreery, DHR/2010

 

[Michael OLeary]

So they are going to strip him of 2 medals,  South-West Asia Service Medal and a Canadian Forces Decoration big freaking deal......

It's the point of the matter, not the perceived importance of the awards in some people's minds.

 

[OldSolduer]

I'd have to research this, but I am quite certain that a even a VC winner can be stripped if he/she was convicted of a very serious offence.

 

[Michael OLeary]

I'd have to research this, but I am quite certain that a even a VC winner can be stripped if he/she was convicted of a very serious offence.

The original Warrant (1859) for the VC allowed forfeiture, and it was done eight times, but in 1920 King George V stated that it should not be removed from a recipient.

On Collis' death his sister made a plea to King George to restore the decoration to her brother. The King was deeply touched and felt that once the medal had been awarded it should not be forfeited. His Private Secretary, Lord Stamfordham sent a letter on the 26 July 1920 he expressed his views with some force. "The King feels so strongly that, no matter the crime committed by anyone on whom the VC has been conferred, the decoration should not be forfeited. Even were a VC to be sentenced to be hanged for murder, he should be allowed to wear his VC on the scaffold."

See also The Victoria Cross (IWM)

Have any VC's been forfeited?
Under the terms of the original Warrant there was an expulsion clause that allowed for a recipient's name to be erased from the official Register in certain wholly discreditable circumstances. HM King George V had expressed his strong disapproval of the practice of forfeiture, however the amending Warrant of 1920 still contained the relevant clause. A later amending Warrant published in 1931 gave the Sovereign the new power to annul any forfeiture and restore both the award and pension. Although there are eight instances of forfeiture, the names of these men continue to be included in both official and unofficial lists of recipients.