I am curious, mainly for the selfish reason to feel more confident in my abilities before going into the armed forces, about how the shooting abilities of soldiers improves from before acceptance, through basic training and beyond? I have been accepted and am awaiting my bmq date. Anyways, currently I can go out and shoot with a 9x scoped hunting rifle off a bipod and hit 3'' bullseyes at 100 yards, and 8x10 sheets of paper out to about 500 yards consistently. How does this compare to others? Should I expect this to greatly improve after training?
Rifle group sizes?
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Nice AD.
Not that I have any quotable information but wouldn't the type of shooting be totally different anyways?
You will be shooting C7s at potentially varying distances with different sights and without a bipod.
It just seems like apples and oranges to me. :2c:
Not that I have any quotable information but wouldn't the type of shooting be totally different anyways?
You will be shooting C7s at potentially varying distances with different sights and without a bipod.
It just seems like apples and oranges to me. :2c:
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Kona,
It is impossible to compare what you are doing to what will be done with a C7 at the range. Different rifle, different optics, different stress level, etc.
What I can guarantee you is that you will be given incredible instruction while at Saint Jean, but it won't be from the guys in uniform; it will be from the retired guys who run the Small Arms Trainer.
They will increase your marksmanship principles in real time assisted by a really high-speed program to show you exactly what you're doing wrong and they will coach you how to improve.
Best of luck.
It is impossible to compare what you are doing to what will be done with a C7 at the range. Different rifle, different optics, different stress level, etc.
What I can guarantee you is that you will be given incredible instruction while at Saint Jean, but it won't be from the guys in uniform; it will be from the retired guys who run the Small Arms Trainer.
They will increase your marksmanship principles in real time assisted by a really high-speed program to show you exactly what you're doing wrong and they will coach you how to improve.
Best of luck.
Doesn't all types of weapons use effectively the same tactics though. steady hand, accurate eye sight, good posture and balance. it might be hard to say how anyone shooting compares to others but if you can generally shoot decent, you are capable of shooting well with a majority of firearms.
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There are what we call "principles of marksmanship". My advice to you is this: go in with an open mind. Your instructors may tell you stuff that may be new to you or even conflict with what you know.kona_mtb said:
Heck, way back in 1985 when I first shot the FN C1 A1 (a 7.62mm rifle), I was able to hit the target at 100 m with iron peep sights such that the rounds had a group size of about 2 or 3 inches or so. That was the first time I had ever fired a rifle. Most were able to do the same due to the methods, etc they taught us.
OldSolduer
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Technoviking said:
Bang on the money Techno!! When I was much younger I could nail a tgt at 375 yards, one shot, iron sights FNC1A1.
Try to avoid going in with any preconceptions.
It sounds a bit silly saying it, but all marksmanship is, is the rigorous application of the principles of marksmanship. Keep a copy of them, consciously go through them one at a time, and you'll start to apply them instinctively. As long as you remember the principles, there is effectively no difference between a .50 MacMillan and a 5.56 C-7.
It sounds a bit silly saying it, but all marksmanship is, is the rigorous application of the principles of marksmanship. Keep a copy of them, consciously go through them one at a time, and you'll start to apply them instinctively. As long as you remember the principles, there is effectively no difference between a .50 MacMillan and a 5.56 C-7.
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Don't get too comfy on the bipod. You won't see one again until you're playing with the belt fed goodness of a C6 or C9. As mentioned, pay attention to your instructors above all else. Ask lots of questions. If you're uncomfortable when you shoot, ask your coach to help you adjust your position to suit you. There is the 'by the book way', and then there is a little bit of leeway to allow for different body types, and your coaches will help you find it.
When you come out the other side, you'll be blasting womprats with your T-16 without issue. >
When you come out the other side, you'll be blasting womprats with your T-16 without issue. >
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Kona,
As mentioned, it's what you think it is and more. And as others have said, you may need to unlearn some bad habits.
For example, your stance and hold may be perfect but your breathing and follow through may be terrible. Either way, the coaches and the Small Arms Trainer software will help you get better.
As the OIC of Small Arms I felt reasonably comfortable in my shooting ability, but when I went to visit Saint Jean a few months ago and cycled through the system I learned a ton. Even guys like shooting champions and snipers can still benefit from the software because it shows you things a coach's human eye might not see.
For example, I knew how to manage my breathing and trigger control (which the software tracked), but what I never knew was that after I was firing each shot I was basically flailing the rifle all over the place because I wasn't holding a solid follow through position. You see this on the replay because the laser tracks exactly where you're pointed at all times. Great stuff.
As mentioned, it's what you think it is and more. And as others have said, you may need to unlearn some bad habits.
For example, your stance and hold may be perfect but your breathing and follow through may be terrible. Either way, the coaches and the Small Arms Trainer software will help you get better.
As the OIC of Small Arms I felt reasonably comfortable in my shooting ability, but when I went to visit Saint Jean a few months ago and cycled through the system I learned a ton. Even guys like shooting champions and snipers can still benefit from the software because it shows you things a coach's human eye might not see.
For example, I knew how to manage my breathing and trigger control (which the software tracked), but what I never knew was that after I was firing each shot I was basically flailing the rifle all over the place because I wasn't holding a solid follow through position. You see this on the replay because the laser tracks exactly where you're pointed at all times. Great stuff.
OldSolduer
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Petamocto said:
Can you tell me more via PM about this system?
Thanks
Blackadder1916
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Petamocto said:
From looking at the OP's previous posts, it appears he will be a reservist with the Rocky Mountain Rangers and possibly not attending BMQ until next summer. Perhaps someone can provide him with a bit of insight into what expectations he should have in that scenario with regards musketry on his basic and trades courses as well as typical shooting during the year at his unit. I sense that he may be under impression that he will have (or would like to have) lots of bullets with which to improve his markmanship, which may not be the case unless things have improved greatlly since I retired.
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PMs sent to Jim and BM.
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Blackadder1916 said:
He may not have any chance to handle any weapon and ammo at the same time, let alone fire on a range, until he has qualified BMQ-Land.
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Been awhile since I was involved in one, but I think you have to do your basic C7 qual in order to even pass your BMQ.George Wallace said:
Blackadder1916 said:
Honestly, I wouldn't go in with any expectations. From what I understand, the PWTs are currently being overhauled, so anything I say about the current standards may not be in any way applicable when this guy goes through basic. Petamocto is actually OIC Small Arms, and leading this overhaul, so he can explain better than I. I've seen guys get burned going through BMQ thinking they already had a leg up on their peers because of some prior shooting "experience," only to get schooled by someone who's never even touched a gun before. All I would say is, keep an open mind, take the teaching points to heart, and practice practice practice the basic principles on your own time when you get the chance.
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recceguy said:
I knew that question was going to arise from my statement. LFCA came out with a rule that unless a member had done their BMQ - LAND (at that time SQ) they could not handle loaded wpns at the Unit. They had to have been qualified on their BMQ - Land before they were permitted to partake in any Ranges run by the Unit. We were not allowed to take members to the Pistol or Rifle Ranges and let them shoot, until after they sucessfully passed BMQ - Land even though Range Control considered them "safe" if the Unit was satisfied with their instruction and TOETs as taught by unit pers. More bullets for me. ;D
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