Reserve Pension- Merged

[geo]

new message came out today.........
will try to post tomorrow once I get back to the Puzzle Palace

they have set up a some 4 levels of priority....
levels 3 & 4 are indicated as "as no action to be taken"
levels 1 & 2a thru 2d are to be actioned, with all due haste, so long as it affects more than 1000 oersons and is of a material nature.....
lotta legalese & KYA bureaucratic gobbledy goop (have asked a Buddy to translate)

Talk to you guys tomorrow.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Reference my previous post with regard to DND computer programs. Here is an example.   Do you have confidence that ADM (Fin CS ) will get the Reserve Pension up and running?

Software project to eclipse budget

OTTAWA -- Delays and ballooning costs mean a giant software project at National Defence will eclipse its original budget and won't meet its goals until 2011 -- if at all.
An internal audit obtained by The Canadian Press raises red flags about a new system designed to streamline computer tracking of military inventory and purchases.

Why would they. They've been trying to make our qualificaion sheet, the one that shows CL A,B,C service, CD eligibility date, security clearance, courses, etc. (Forget at the moment the name of the printout for the Resrerves) work for years, or so they say.

I have been correcting this printout, twice a year for five years, and they haven't corrected one piece of info. They are incompetent and non caring when it comes to how much time or service you've got. This is the form that they will use to determine your pension, and they will not fix the errors. I've been serving since '68, reg and reserve, they show me starting in '91. My CD was awarded in '83, and got my clasp in 01 due to broken service. They show my CD eligibility date as 2013. They are just completely out to lunch and refuse to accept they have a problem and to do anything to fix it. You are going to get screwed on your pension. They are not giving you anything. If you got 25 years Class B, you may make out ok, cause your probably in a job   that allows you to watch and correct errors. Most Cl A pers are going to burn on this thing. They can't even take care of the simpleist of records, and your going to trust them with your future?

Time to get hold of your MP's. This is your future and legacy that DND is screwing with. Just another crock o' shyte, fyke the Reserve plan from Disneyland on the Rideau.

 

[geo]

Whups.... not quite canforgen level but here it is...........

UNCLAS AIG 1760 MIL PAY 09/05
SUBJ:  CCPS/RPSR PROGRAMMING DELAYS
1.  THE CCPS PENSION MODULE UPGRADE PROJECT (CPMU) IS IN THE PROCESS OF DEVELOPING THE SYSTEM REQUIREMENTS FOR THE  MODERNIZATION OF PENSION ARRANGEMENTS FOR ALL MEMBERS OF THE CANADIAN FORCES.  TO FACILITATE THIS EFFORT, DAPPP HAS DEDICATED THE MAJORITY OF ITS CCPS/RPSR PROGRAMMING RESOURCES TO THIS PROJECT. AS A RESULT, PROGRAMMING REQUIREMENTS FOR THE CCPS/RPSR WILL BE COMPLETED ON A PRIORITIZATION BASIS AS FOLLOWS:
A.  PRIORITY 1. MANDATORY LEGISLATIVE CHANGES AND EMERGENCIES
B.  PRIORITY 2A. CHANGES THAT HAVE A MAJOR IMPACT THAT AFFECTS MORE THAN 1000 MBRS, HAVE A MONTHLY IMPACT GREATER THAN $100 OR CUMULATIVE IMPACT GREATER THAN $500 AND NO WORK AROUND IS FEASIBLE
C.  PRIORITY 2B. CHANGES THAT HAVE A MAJOR IMPACT THAT AFFECTS MORE THAN 1000 MBRS AND NO WORK AROUND IS FEASIBLE
D.  PRIORITY 2C. CHANGES THAT HAVE A MAJOR IMPACT THAT AFFECTS LESS THAN 1000 MBRS, HAS A MONTHLY IMPACT GREATER THAN $100 OR CUMULATIVE IMPACT GREATER THAN $500 AND NO WORK AROUND IS FEASIBLE
E.  PRIORITY 3. CHANGES THAT HAVE A MINOR IMPACT
F.  PRIORITY 4.  NON-CRITICAL SYSTEM ENHANCEMENTS

2.  FOR AT LEAST THE NEXT YEAR, IT IS FORECASTED THAT ALL PRI 1 AND PRI 2 CHANGES WILL BE ACTIONED IN A TIMELY MANNER.  PRI 3 CHANGES WILL BE ACTIONED WITH SIGNIFICANT DELAYS ANTICIPATED.  NO PRI 4 CHANGES WILL BE ACTIONED

3.  WE REGRET ANY INCONVENIENCE THIS SITUATION MAY CAUSE TO MEMBERS. YOUR PATIENCE AND SUPPORT IS APPRECIATED

4.  QUERIES REGARDING THIS MESSAGE MAY BE ADDRESSED TO MIL PAY, CAPT DEGREVE AT CSN 845-8398 OR (613) 995-8398

END OF ENGLISH TEXT

 

[Rifleman62]

What it means is that 15 out of the 17 programmers have been seconded from ADM ( Fin CS ) to Adm ( HR Mil )to get the computer systems  ( both CCPS - Reg F and RPSR - P Res) for the pension modernization ready for implementation. Don't forget this pension modernization is for both components, and as part of modernization, the P Res will finally have access to a pension, just like EVERYONE else who works for the government of Canada. So if a new allowance comes into effect, ADM (Fin CS) will not have the programmers to put it into the pay systems.
I was incorrect that the delay was at ADM (Fin CS )

 

[54/102 CEF]

I have been correcting this printout, twice a year for five years, and they haven't corrected one piece of info. They are incompetent and non caring when it comes to how much time or service you've got. This is the form that they will use to determine your pension, and they will not fix the errors. I've been serving since '68, reg and reserve, they show me starting in '91. My CD was awarded in '83, and got my clasp in 01 due to broken service. They show my CD eligibility date as 2013. They are just completely out to lunch and refuse to accept they have a problem and to do anything to fix it. ........ They can't even take care of the simpleist of records, and your going to trust them with your future?

Time to get hold of your MP's. This is your future and legacy that DND is screwing with. Just another crock o' shyte, fyke the Reserve plan from Disneyland on the Rideau.

Document the problem - send a memo to the CO - ask for an interview with the CO which is your RIGHT

CO does not get it fixed --- serve him with a redress

As you say - you have been in long enough to get it fixed.

So get going.

 

[geo]

If you can't get satisfaction by talking to the OR, ask for the CO
You have all the facts, make sure it's all on paper, laid out in a clear & concise manner.
If they are unwilling or unable to "fix" the problem.... hand in a redress....

I deal with em (redress) on a daily basis.  Yours does not sound complicated at all
it just requires someone to get off his duff for a moment

IMHO

Cheers!

 

[54/102 CEF]

Ref the last two posts

Despite my best efforts - I ran over all my old Class B papers - got them all tidied up and confirmed by the unit then as RECCE GUY so aptly pointed out - the data input people marked me down for 15 years with 33 Bde when I only about 2 years.

So - for Gen Hillier's monitor - Sir, you have a big problem - if this was an ISO 9000 audit you would FAIL MISERABLY and if I may say so - this is endemic to reserve record keeping throughout the system - we are taliking computers and people - BANKS and AIRLINES can do it - get your people out to see them and what QUALITY CONTROL means.

I believe this also spills over in tracking the training levels of indiv reserves. Check how the NAVY knows when pers are ready for advancement vs. the stealth announcements of the Army (psst - you have to take course XYZ to get ahead).

I know we can do better.

My suggestion?

Take all the performance pay and your PLD COFFEE MONEY away  from every FINANCE AND PERS FULL COLONEL ACROSS THE SYSTEM until this is FIXED.

This week I will re-submit my info and we`ll see how long it takes to fix it.

 

[geo]

It has been noted that the Air and Sea branches have career manglers who look after the reserve's career progression needs... while the Land element does not.

Some steps are being taken. Getting reserve records onto Peoplesoft (errors & blemishes included) is a 1st step to redressing the problem.
1. New guys will get their records maintained from the get go.
2. Each member now has access to his pers record from any DIN terminal. As part of the Annual DAG, these pers histories should be printed out & confirmed with the indivual .... errors noted (in writing on form), copies made AND corrections submitted .
3. Note that no one @ the Reserve unit level has authority to modify these records so, give it till X-mass & then get the coy clerk to pull out another copy of your record.
If the record has not been updated, might I suggest that it might be time to submit a grievance if some people are not doing their job....  If it is a matter of not enough staff - HIRE SOMEONE or HIRE SOMEONE BETTER (IMHO)

The land portion of the reserves is still rife with what I term "command decisions" taken by well meaning but frequently little knowing COs (& their minions) who work with WAGs (wild assed guesses) cause their underlings aren't doing / or aren't allowed to do their job.... This institutionalized situation will have to be vanquished.
Much has been done, COs have become much more accountable for their actions... still a whole lot to be done.

The Armed Forces..... always an adventure

Cheers!

 

[bridges]

To veer back to the topic at hand for a sec, I want to thank you, geo, for posting that msg a few posts back.  Even though it supposedly went to all bases, commands and ships, according to the AIG, I hadn't seen it - found out about it only through this site - once again Army.ca rules!  No idea why this msg wasn't considered important enough for general dist around here.

I've sent it through my Log-net - if enough other people do the same, we might actually have communication in this army of ours.  Not the official chain of command kind, but communication nonetheless.  :

I asked the pension modernization folks what will be done with people who have to get out while waiting, such as medical releases.  Eventually got a response saying essentially that they can't answer the question because not all the briefings had been completed, and I was advised to monitor the CFPMP website for further announcements.  Typical DND!  The site hasn't been updated since 26 Jul.

And the waiting continues ...

 

[geo]

I asked the pension modernization folks what will be done with people who have to get out while waiting, such as medical releases.   Eventually got a response saying essentially that they can't answer the question because not all the briefings had been completed, and I was advised to monitor the CFPMP website for further announcements.   Typical DND!   The site hasn't been updated since 26 Jul.

And the waiting continues ...

if you have questions that need asking, contact the nice people @ "the Centre"
Phone 1-800-883-6094
web page: www.forces.gc.ca/centre

I have a few acquaintances that are working out of that show and it is their mandate to fight for the little guy. I've heard of their being able to settle some horor stories... possibly they can help you.

Good luck

 

[Haggis]

Some steps are being taken. Getting reserve records onto Peoplesoft (errors & blemishes included) is a 1st step to redressing the problem.
1. New guys will get their records maintained from the get go.

This is done by the CFRCs through an application called CFRIMS (Canadian Forces Recruit Information Management System).  Once a member is hired, his data dumps into the DND Human Resources Management System (HRMS or PeopleSoft)

2. Each member now has access to his pers record from any DIN terminal. As part of the Annual DAG, these pers histories should be printed out & confirmed with the indivual .... errors noted (in writing on form), copies made AND corrections submitted .

The application is called Employee and Member Access Application (EMAA). Anyone, Reg F or Res F, can log onto EMAA and check their MPRR, DAG/PRV status and PersTempo. 

3. Note that no one @ the Reserve unit level has authority to modify these records so, give it till X-mass & then get the coy clerk to pull out another copy of your record.

That is changing.  Reserve Correction Mode has been available since November 2004.  All Bde HQs have at least one Correction Mode clerk.  DHRIM is trying very hard to deliver training to the entire HRMS user community but, like every other CF unit, it needs funds and manpower to do it in the manner and at the speed the user community wants and needs.

If the record has not been updated, might I suggest that it might be time to submit a grievance if some people are not doing their job....   If it is a matter of not enough staff - HIRE SOMEONE or HIRE SOMEONE BETTER (IMHO)

There are not nearly enough HRMS users in the Army Reserve to even begin to be caught up.  There's a plan to hire civvy clerks to work at each Armoury as dedicated HRMS Clerks.  They won't be subject to Class A attendance caps, Class B funding shotfalls or summer taskings.

That being said, much of the responsibility for HRMS data quality rests with the soldier.  The soldier must provide the OR clerks with the source documentation to make the corrections in HRMS.  HRMS is the "system of record" and entries are not made on faith. So if you want your MPRR up-to-date, ensure you bring the documentation to support the changes you need made.

This will be extremely important at pension time as the calculations will be made based, in a large part, on HRMS data.

 

[bridges]

geo,

Thanks for the idea about calling VAC.  I did, but unfortunately they have no addl info & there's nothing they can do to help at this point.  They're waiting to hear when the pension comes out, just like the rest of us.  They did make the observation, however, that some units are "stretching" the rules by hiring/employing Reservists on Class B even if the mbrs are below minimum med standards for their trade, just so as to maximize the mbr's chance of still being in the CF when the pension comes out.  Keeping them in as long as possible.

If DND wants to be a reasonable employer, and "employer of choice" and all that - it almost has to go against its own rules just to take care of the mbr - and not coincidentally, ensuring lots of work will get done by the mbr in the meantime. 

I am involved in the administration of several people who will have to get out before the pension comes out - we're doing what we can to keep them.

Surely the MND and CDS would not find it acceptable to delay this any longer?

 

[geo]

Latest news to come out............. (drum roll)......
Reserve pension will be delayed due to some serious software issues
they are looking at having it in place by 2007 (though it could be out sooner {yeah, right!})
Pension eligibility is still set for 01 Jan 2006

The only thing I can recommend to anyone who has some time that might (or might not) be worth anything is to make sure you sign up for the Supp Reserve / Ready Reserve / or whatever else they might call it now (sigh)

In the meantime, get your MPRR records up to scratch, dig out all of your old T4 slips and sit tight.

 

[geo]

it'll be coming out soon.... but there is a bit of a bun fight going on at the Puzzle Palace. The senior leaders (military types) want it out and they want it out now... while the people who have the project are saying that with the staff AND the Data Processing resources they have been given; they can't roll out the project as demanded...
We have to consider that most all reservists who have the chance of a reasonnably large claim to a Reserve Pension "we're all different" not one case is the same and the software Pension contribution / benefit calculators that are available in the marketplace are not up to the task.
( some might say that they waited too long, suddenly woken up AND now they realize that this thing has to be custom built)
More to follow................. I am sure

(though the General was told that we're sick and tired of hearing the old song and dance ... and quite frankly we're mad as hell and don't want to hear any more until they get their a$& in gear)

 

[Rifleman62]

Look, this is going to be a huge rant!!! I have serve loyally since 6 Oct 1962. I have never been NES or ED&T. I am fortunately to have progressed from Rfn to LCol in every rank including 2 that  do not exist any more- LC pl and L Sgt . I have commanded 3 units. Based on my background, EVERY order I issue , I think FIRST how this is going to effect that  soldier in the slit trench. I have a Redress of Grievance, signed by the CDS, 3 CDS's ago, stating that , yes the P Res must have a pension, and it is a priority. Legislation was passed in 1986 stating everyone who works for the Federal government will have access to a pension. It was retro to 1981. The only pers left out were the P Res. Accident? BS!! It was a decision made by more than one person for what ever reason. Save a few bucks?? No, a put down of the P Res .  ADM (HR Mil), the Project Director, and the previous Project Director, fought the good fight. VAdm Jravis the same. They were on our side. SCONVA pushed the issue. A Reserve Pension project was commenced. Then it was decided to modernize the Reg F pension(1999) So, to stream line things, they ceased the Reserve Pension Project, and threw it it in with the CF Pension Moderation Project. So we are tied in with that project. Ever think if this had not had happened how long it would have taken to establish a pension for the P RES, the ONLY element of the federal Government that does not have access to a pension. If we gave this to e.g. Great West Life, who manages the Dental Plan, whose CEO is the Hon Col of The Royal Winnipeg Rifles, how long do you think it would take? In private business, you make a proposal, and follow up with Acton, otherwise you do not get the contract. DND does a lot of things ASD. Why not CF Pension Modernation? Currently 15 of 17 computer programmers from ADM (Fin CS) are seconded to ADM (HR Mil) to get the computers programmed for the CFPMP. What computer system do you think is getting the priority- CCPS Reg F or RPSS P Res?Yep, you guessed it the Reg F. Right now, as the Minister DND has not been briefed, the CFPMP could be delayed another 12 month s as the computer programs are not in place. He could say, manually, at the cost of ?? millions.Anyway, who will get priority? It took 27 1/2 years to bring our pay up to 85%  of Reg F, plus the same incentives. Buy back of previous service  at 7% compound interest!!! Look at the internet, the 10 yr avg of CSB, CPB and Tresa Bills - 2.5%. Go to your local Liberal consistansy office, state that you are corrupt , and you want to be a Liberal.

 

[bridges]

Thanks for the background, geo.  The tendency of the dept to allocate inadequate resources has been a systemic problem for a long time.  If the project people are saying that they can't do it with the resources they have, my tendency looking in from the outside would be to believe them.  

When it comes down to it, this situation is either acceptable to the Government of Canada or it isn't.  

If it is, the government and the department should keep on doing what they're doing.  
If it isn't, they should give the project what it needs NOW, to get this thing done!!!     

Just wondering - at what point would most folks consider communicating with their MP and/or the ombudsman on the topic?  I've been asking myself the same question, and I have to say I'm getting closer and closer.

 

[Rifleman62]

geo. My point is that, if there was something in this for the Liberals, anything that would benefit them or a friend, anything, it would get done. If ADM (HR Mil) cannot get this done, contract it out, even though this would add time to for contract biding. If it went out for contract, some Liberal company would get the bid, then possibly we would get it within a year. Another option would be for every single P Res mbr to go to their local Liberal MP, or the closest Liberal MP if they don't have one, and join the party. It would cost, what $10 for a year. Once you have joined, everyone could bitch about the lack of a pension. Approx 20,000 new mbrs may pull some weight. Immigrants do.

 

[bridges]

Rifleman62, it's clear you have some beefs, some of which are getting outside the scope of this thread (Liberals, immigrants...).  I think you do raise a particularly good point in terms of members contacting their MPs - we tend to forget, sometimes, that this option is available.  And it certainly does draw some attention within DND, when one of those pink file folders (ministerial inquiry) comes along! 

No matter what party they belong to, government side or not, an MP is responsible for representing every one of their constituents.  I, for one, am planning to exercise my right to speak to my MP on this pension issue very shortly.  It's just not acceptable.

 

[bridges]

Point taken, rifleman62.  There do seem to be some people in the present administration who were unable to resist the temptations before them.  I have to wonder if it would be any different with any other party in power.  However - now I'm on a tangent!

I have my computer at work set so that the Pension Modernization page is the home page - just so I can check every morning for those "future announcements", as I've been directed to do.    Nothing yet ....  last updated 26 Jul 05 .....

If anyone has any luck finding out any info on the pension, or gets any satisfaction fm their MP or the ombudsman, I hope you'll post.  Seems like Army.ca is our best source of info.

 

[RCA]

  Pension implementation has again been delayed. There will be a CANFORGEN coming out shortly. It seems the Reseve Pension (Part 1.1)  coming into effect date (CIF) will be March 2007.   It seems the present RPSR system is one of the reasons.    However there are plans to ensure that Reservists who had intended to leave the military between the original CIF of January 2006 and the new CIF are not disadvantaged.