Religion in the Canadian Forces & in Canadian Society

[Jarnhamar]

Like, magick the card game?

All kidding aside wicca seems like a hamrless religion.  If someone wants to believe in it then good for them, believe what you will. i think the fact that after the movie 'The Craft' came out there was a 5 million percent increase of 'wiccans' among teen-age girls takes away from the seriousness of the religion.

 

[Brad Sallows]

I thought the whole point of reviving ancient pagan religions was for obese people to dance naked in the moonlight and get laid.  Or did I miss some of the details?

 

[Jarnhamar]

Isn't that live action role playing?

 

[Old Sweat]

Or reality TV?

 

[George Wallace]

The Nude Beach scenes in Euro Trip just came to mind......

 

[atticus]

A question then.....If Wicca's don't solicite, nor talk outside of their coven (as you are doing now), how does the 'faith' perpetuate itself?  Do you have to be born, literally, into the Wicca religion?  So you would have to come from a long line of witches, in order to be a witch today.

I have a book on Wicca and it states: "Many wiccans practice their faith as individuals with no connection to a larger group. For those who do worship together, many groups follow these typical practices.
Meeting attended by thirteen memers (a coven) are held weekly at a covenstead, generally a leaders home. Larger meetings, called esbats, occur on special days of celebration (sabats, a term first used in 1662). Each coven is usually autonomous, except for those groups that owe their initiation to another witch's assembly. membership is by invitation, and progress occurs in degrees."

I guess from that, you can just decide to become a wiccan, but you cannot just go out and join a group of other wiccans.

 

[Springroll]

I have a book on Wicca and it states: "Many wiccans practice their faith as individuals with no connection to a larger group. For those who do worship together, many groups follow these typical practices.

Those that choose to practice on their own are called solitary practitioners.
Which book do you happen to have?

 

[atticus]

Acually it's not just about Wicca, it's about pretty much every religion, faith, and all the different Christian doctorine. Its called 'Larson's Book of World Religions and Alternative Sprituality'. It presents all the facts about the different religions, their history, what they do, what they believe, and then separate from that it has kind of a "Christian Critique" comparing Christianity to the different religions.

 

[pronto]

I just re-read "Tobin's Spirit Guide" what we have here is a class 5 Free-floating phantasm... Don't cross the streams - it would be bad!!!

 

[Glorified Ape]

good for you. That's why it's called a Belief.
Belief
Definitions:
 1. belief or trust: belief in, devotion to, or trust in somebody or something, especially without logical proof

Spirituality
Definitions:
 1. spiritual quality: the quality or condition of being spiritual

spiritual
Definitions:
 1. of religion: relating to religious or sacred things rather than worldly things

You've stated on previous threads that you don't need anything outside yourself. Have fun with that.
We could get into a big debate, but you won't change your mind, I won't change mine, and nothing would be accomplished. The fact that this is about Faith and Belief means that you will never believe that you are missing something, and I will always believe that you are.
I have no intention of getting into a debate with you. I've been where you are now. I've progressed beyond it, and intend to continue progressing. You do the same in your own way. Lemme know how it turns out for you.

No need to be snippy about it - if you didn't want to discuss it just say so. Condescension is unnecessary.

 

[sigpig]

No need to be snippy about it - if you didn't want to discuss it just say so. Condescension is unnecessary.

Well said.

paracowboy: "The fact that this is about Faith and Belief means that you will never believe that you are missing something, and I will always believe that you are. I have no intention of getting into a debate with you. I've been where you are now. I've progressed beyond it, and intend to continue progressing. You do the same in your own way. Lemme know how it turns out for you."

Gee paracowboy, I hope when I grow up, I can become as wise and knowledgeable as you. The I too can tell others I've progressed beyond them and that I hope someday they will see the errors of their ways and realize how right I am.

 

[atticus]

I just re-read "Tobin's Spirit Guide" what we have here is a class 5 Free-floating phantasm... Don't cross the streams - it would be bad!!!

What the heck does that mean?

 

[48Highlander]

What the heck does that mean?

GHOSTBUSTERS!  sheesh.  soem people are so unedumacated

 

[atticus]

Wow, your so smrt  ;D I never really watched ghostbusters when I was young, scared me too much.

 

[S McKee]

Ah the esoteric interests,

I find that this thread is an excellent observation.  For example, myself I was born in Roman Catholicism, and raised that way, albeit not in a very staunch fashion.  My values are very Christian, and I find my faith keeps me strong.

However, I have been curious as well and have read, and actually participate which would make me very Un-Catholic.  What keeps me strong again is my faith.

You can see a resurgence of beliefs that question Christianity.  The belief in a Female deity, as in the story of Christ, Mary Magdalene, and the Holy Grail is but one example. Holy Blood, Holy Grail by authors Michael Baigent, Richard Leigh, and Henry Lincoln explored this in detail and was an explosive book when released in the early '80s.  It's popularity resurged recently with a release of another popular work, albeit fiction, The Davinci Code by Dan Brown.  I have read both, and I advise reading Holy Blodd first!

As for secrets, and soceties that keep them, short of being within that circle there is no way of knowing exactly what is practiced.  Picking up a book is like looking at the menu at a resteraunt.  Until you bite in to the real  thing, it is still a description.  Masonry, touched on by the books I have mentioned, has been written time and time again by so called "Experts" in the field who have never spent so much as a meeting within the lodge.  Yet have published volumes of the secrets of the level.

Either way, a good thread and this is one I hope grows in to a long, friendly discussion.

fy

tess

Did you happen to see the two part series on the History Channel that aired about two months ago on the DaVinci Code and the book it was based on Holy Blood, Holy Grail? All the supporting evidence supplied to the authors for the The Holy Blood and Holy Grail was fabricated the whole thing was an elaborate hoax. It was a really good program!

 

[S McKee]

And for the rest of you that have "out grown" God......

Universism's new leader aims to go nationwide
The Birmingham News, USA
Sep. 9, 2005
Greg Garrison
www.al.com
"¢ More news articles on Universism

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ReligionNewsBlog.com "¢ Item 12189 "¢ Posted: 2005-09-10 17:53:45
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An upstart religion called Universism, founded in Birmingham by a UAB medical student, has named a new leader who hopes to spread the neo-Deist movement nationwide.

Todd Stricker, 25, has been named executive director of the non-profit organization and said he hopes to launch a new branch in Chicago.

UAB medical student Ford Vox started Universism in 2003, saying that Christianity, Islam and to a lesser extent other world religions are harmful because they attempt to impose their own version of moral certainty on others. Through the Internet, Universism recruited 8,000 atheists, deists, freethinkers and others who rally around the notion that no universal religious truth exists and that the meaning of existence must be determined by each individual.

Stricker said he met Vox when they both showed up at an opposition rally to support the removal of a granite monument of the Ten Commandments placed in the state judicial building by former Alabama Chief Justice Roy Moore.

"I met him in Montgomery at a protest of the Roy Moore rally," Stricker said. "He was holding a sign that said `Osama Bin Laden hates the separation of church and state.'"

They immediately hit it off.

Stricker had been attending meetings of a Birmingham atheists group, but found them too hardline. Vox advocated forming groups that stressed a sense of community.

"I see the value in taking a more moderate position," Stricker said.

Stricker moved to Birmingham from Chicago in 2002 when his fiancee, Jeanine Mauro, came to Alabama on assignment from the Jesuit Volunteer Corps.

She's a Catholic. "She gets a lot out of it," Stricker said. "I see the value. I see what it does for her."

He wants Universism to be the basis of civic activism and benevolence, kind of like a church with social outreach and activities, but without the dogma. "Religious community can offer a lot of positives," Stricker said.

Born and raised in Chicago, Stricker said he has been working full-time since he was 17. He works as a project manager for a woodworking company in Moody. But he plans to return to Chicago and base Universism there. He plans to launch a group similar to the Birmingham group he took part in, meeting at coffee shops and other venues.

"We've got a really strong group in Birmingham that can fly under its own power," Stricker said.

"I like the idea of making Chicago our base of operations," said Vox, who plans to graduate medical school and begin his residency next year. "We'll be more of a national force from that location."

Panel discussions:

Other Universist groups have popped up in various cities, sponsoring showings of documentaries and panel discussions.

"They're united around the fact they disbelieve in the God of the Bible," said Russell Moore, dean of theology at the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, who took part in a panel discussion organized by Universists in Louisville, Ky., on Aug. 23. "A movement united around what members do not believe is not going to grow."

Part of the idea behind Universism is offering an alternative to what Universists feel are outdated models of theology that people don't really believe in, Stricker said.

"Liberal Christianity is more of a problem for us than fundamentalist Christianity," he said. "They're trying to make it acceptable to be a Christian. If you're going to pick and choose from the Bible, what's to say you can't use the myriad of other sources and make them just as authoritative?"

By having meetings that celebrate individual freedom and responsibility, Universism hopes to meet people's spiritual needs while being intellectually honest, Stricker said.

"The concept of spirituality is deeply entwined with mental health," Stricker said. "There's a confusion that comes with liberal Christianity. There's bound to be conflict and confusion about what to do to be a good Christian. We've based it almost entirely on the individual. It's up to you; you don't have to turn to anybody else or follow any example you don't desire."

Universism, which has a Web site at www.universist.org, was formed as a non-profit organization and has spun off another called Hands on Humanity, to provide low-cost medication and medical equipment, Stricker said. "We have a lot of people with compassion who want to help," he said.

The point is that people can do good works without a religious motivation or dogma, he said. "Almost everybody lives with a grain of uncertainty," Stricker said. "I'd like them to be able to embrace it."

Moore, of Southern Seminary, said Universism faces an uphill battle. "Church is a community united around a common storyline and revelation," Moore said. "It's hard to mimic that sense of community without the storyline and revelation

 

[Cpl.Banks]

I do not believe that the big religions have been in decline. I know for certain though that the traditional values of these big religions are changing. We see the catholic church sanctioning things that only 50 years ago would have been unheard of, the same can certainly be said of every religion(almost). Religions, fashion trends, architectural style, all these things change with time and evolve. Yes there always will be hard liners and fanatics who believe the old way is the right way. But more and more for example, the typical catholic family is no longer going to church as often for example, sex before marriage is extremely common, we do all sin and yet we all hold something sacred. Be you of the Jewish faith, Muslim, Christian, Druid or a any other religion we all as human beings hold certain things sacred. For example murder, lies, deception etc... are all considered wrong by any religions standards (satanist excluded :). So what does it matter if Islam becomes more and more popular in North-America. As long as a religion brings comfort to people who need it and teaches principals that we all hold sacred then far be it from me to critique it.
UBIQUE!!!

 

[1feral1]

"White Magic",   is the one used for good purposes: Heal a sick, get a job, the return of the bad husband, or the rebel child, obtain a boyfriend... or make it rain, sunshine, stop a thunderstorm...

"Black Magic", is used for bad purposes: Harm other people, make someone sick, loose his job, or even kill him... make a bad thunderstorm, a hurricane, a fire at home or in the business..

Not to rain on anyones' parade here, but.....

Seriously now, white magic, black magic, covens, spells, witches, and now 'fetishes'   :, start mentioning this anywhere in your recruiting process, or promoting such, you'll be branded a nutter, and won't make it past the pshyc testing.

With all this talk about religions and all, I'll keep it simple by saying it here - a famous quote "there is no such thing as an athiest in a foxhole".

Cheers,

Wes

 

[winchable]

Seriously now, white magic, black magic, covens, spells, witches, and now 'fetishes'  , start mentioning this anywhere in your recruiting process, or promoting such, you'll be branded a nutter, and won't make it past the pshyc testing.

Alright, all joking aside, I am a religious person and I fully admit I'm into the mystery and might of religion...actually more and more it has become about my individual spirituality and relationship with God (but that's another book)
That being said, every religion requires a certain degree of "faith" (ooo, there's that word) and they are all at some point going to make someone roll their eyes and call you a nutter.

For Christians, believing Christ turned water into wine, walked on water, raised the dead, was resurrected.
For Muslims, An angel gave Muhammad a book which is the exact word of God, jesus was switched on the cross, etc.
Hindus, believing there are a number of God's and the big one is a big elephant with many arms.
Buddhists, this dude sat under a tree for a very long time without dying of thirst or hunger.
Atheists, there is absolutely nothing more to life than what is weighed measured, seen, heard smelled etc.
Thousands of African religions; their ancestors are controlling everyday events and sending them messages.

Now that I've offended everyone and left myself open to critcisms, try and keep in mind the spirit and not the specific details of this..
Every religion sounds a tad bit wonky when you think about it, wiccan beliefs are just another way of saying the same thing (tad simplistic).

As such I refuse to look at any one faith and think that because it is more widely known, accepted and followed, it is somehow superior to another one.

I'm getting a serious feeling of deja vu on this whole debate.
Anyone else?

 

[Glorified Ape]

Alright, all joking aside, I am a religious person and I fully admit I'm into the mystery and might of religion...actually more and more it has become about my individual spirituality and relationship with God (but that's another book)
That being said, every religion requires a certain degree of "faith" (ooo, there's that word) and they are all at some point going to make someone roll their eyes and call you a nutter.

For Christians, believing Christ turned water into wine, walked on water, raised the dead, was resurrected.
For Muslims, An angel gave Muhammad a book which is the exact word of God, jesus was switched on the cross, etc.
Hindus, believing there are a number of God's and the big one is a big elephant with many arms.
Buddhists, this dude sat under a tree for a very long time without dying of thirst or hunger.
Atheists, there is absolutely nothing more to life than what is weighed measured, seen, heard smelled etc.
Thousands of African religions; their ancestors are controlling everyday events and sending them messages.

Now that I've offended everyone and left myself open to critcisms, try and keep in mind the spirit and not the specific details of this..
Every religion sounds a tad bit wonky when you think about it, wiccan beliefs are just another way of saying the same thing (tad simplistic).

As such I refuse to look at any one faith and think that because it is more widely known, accepted and followed, it is somehow superior to another one.

I'm getting a serious feeling of deja vu on this whole debate.
Anyone else?

Yes, though good points. The established religions are no more or less unbelievable/credible than the smaller ones - cults included.

"there is no such thing as an athiest in a foxhole".

I've always thought that adage a bit suspect. I no more expect an atheist to abandon his/her beliefs in such a situation than I would expect a religious person to abandon theirs after experiencing the depravity and horror of warfare sans divine intervention.

One retort (not mine, unfortunately) which I find poignant:

"As for all those religious folks out there sitting in their own foxholes, they would do well to reconsider their prayerful ways. After all, if their nightly prayers to God were really effective, they would never have ended up sitting in foxholes in the first place."