Redress of Grievance

[Gunplumber]

What can be asked for in an outcome for a RofG? I was harassed and my CoC did nothing to stop it and so I had to leave the forces. I had a contract for another year and can I ask for this to get paid out?

 

[SeaKingTacco]

What can be asked for in an outcome for a RofG? I was harassed and my CoC did nothing to stop it and so I had to leave the forces. I had a contract for another year and can I ask for this to get paid out?

Did you submit your Grievance before you released?

If not, a quick read of DAOD 2017-1 tells me that you cannot use the Grievance process.

 

[Gunplumber]

Did you submit your Grievance before you released?

If not, a quick read of DAOD 2017-1 tells me that you cannot use the Grievance process.

I did it before I released.

 

[Lumber]

I did it before I released.

You grieve a decision you don't like agree with. Further, you have to grieve a speficic decision by a specific person. Finally, the decision you have a problem with has to deal with you someone. The redress is basically supposed to undo/reverse that unfavourable (in your opinion) decision.

Getting out of the CAF was your decision, not the CAF's, so getting paid for time not serve cannot be your redress. The only redress here, imo, would be the opening of a harassment complant against the person who you claim was harrasing you.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

I did it before I released.

Got it- I understand now.

Basically what Lumber said- the redress you seek has to be specific to the circumstances that caused you to grieve.

A simple example (not to belittle your situation):

“X said something mean to me, I want to him to apologize to me.” If the IA finds that, yes, X did in fact said something mean to you, that person being ordered to apologize is a pretty reasonable remedy.

If X said something mean to you and you think $ 1 billion dollars ought to redress your problem, the IA is likely going to say that isn’t reasonable, proportional or really related to the specific situation.

Good luck!

 

[Gunplumber]

Thanks to all. I did put in a harassment complaint and in the initial Situational Awareness the CO deemed it as having hit the threshold of harassement. They did very little to keep me away from the person and that's why I decided to leave as it wasn't safe and was affecting my health. When I put in my release, they then decided that "on further reflection" it was not harassment. I tried the Ombudsman, but they declined to help.

 

[Jarnhamar]

One of the problems with harassment in the CAF is that it's not criminal.

And if I'm found guilty of harassing you my punishment can be as little as someone wagging a finger at me and telling me not to do it again; and you're not even privy to that happening.

 

[Gunplumber]

...but they do like to talk about till the cows come home! Yadda yadda yadda. Its disgusting.

 

[captloadie]

I applaud you for making the decision to do what was best for you and your physical and mental health. That is what is important in this situation.

It is not a surprise that they ended the harassment process once you submitted your release. The goal of the harassment program isn't to punish people. It is to stop the harassment and bring about a healthy workplace where everyone feels safe. By you leaving, that actually fulfills the goal of the harassment program in this case. There is no longer conflict between the two sides, there are no outstanding issues with the individual involved, so life goes on. It may not seem fair, but that is how the process goes in cases like this.

Harassment complaints are also always dealt with before grievances. This put you in a catch-22. If they wouldn't separate you from your harasser (I have to assume you requested this as an interim measure while they carried out an investigation) your only real option then would have been to go down the medical route or release.

Now, for the grievance, you could grieve that the CoC forced you to release because of the poor conduct of the harassment process. The only likely positive outcome for the grievance would be for the CDS agreeing that the harassment did exist, was the reason for the release, and if you desired, to direct your reenrollment be expedited.

I know the above was only an example given, but no good harassment advisor will ever recommend a Commander order someone to apologize as part of a harassment process. No one can force someone to say they are sorry, mainly because a coerced apology is meaningless. They could order the respondent to write a letter admitting their actions were not in line with the accepted CAF policies, but even that is iffy when a respondent continues to accept their actions were wrong.

 

[Gunplumber]

Thanks for the info, its very useful. They did very little to separate us and I did take the medical route till I count get any more. I was told to just go back to work so that's when I left.

Honestly the only thing I want out of this is to have it recognized so it doesn't happen again. I really cant understand how the only person who is "penalized" is the one being harassed. And they wonder why there is a retention problem!

 

[Chargersfan]

You grieve a decision you don't like agree with. Further, you have to grieve a speficic decision by a specific person. Finally, the decision you have a problem with has to deal with you someone. The redress is basically supposed to undo/reverse that unfavourable (in your opinion) decision.

Getting out of the CAF was your decision, not the CAF's, so getting paid for time not serve cannot be your redress. The only redress here, imo, would be the opening of a harassment complant against the person who you claim was harrasing you.

A grievance can be submitted for any ‘decision, act or omission’, but must be done while in uniform within 4 months of you being aware of the above…..and it doesn’t need to be a specific person. You can grieve a policy in a sense in that you’ll grieve how the policy was enacted or interpreted by your CoC. This is how things change grievance > appeal > Federal Court.

 

[ModlrMike]

QR&O Chapter 7 is the bible for grievances:

 

[daftandbarmy]

Out of curiosity I had a look at the CPCC site.

Good news: they have a process for complaints, and a form:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1754927155815805312

Bad news: the link to the forms is broken Not Found - Canada.ca

 

[Blackadder1916]

Out of curiosity I had a look at the CPCC site.

Good news: they have a process for complaints, and a form:

Bad news: the link to the forms is broken Not Found - Canada.ca

Someone should probably grieve that.

 

[OldSolduer]

Out of curiosity I had a look at the CPCC site.

Good news: they have a process for complaints, and a form:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1754927155815805312

Bad news: the link to the forms is broken Not Found - Canada.ca

Did that app cost 60 million dollars Mr. Bigglesworth?

 

[MARS]

A grievance can be submitted for any ‘decision, act or omission’, but must be done while in uniform within 4 months

It's only 3 months. Perhaps you are confusing this with the 4 months that are afforded to the IA and then the FA to render a decision?

and it doesn’t need to be a specific person. You can grieve a policy in a sense in that you’ll grieve how the policy was enacted or interpreted by your CoC.

In which case, you are indeed
grieving a specific person, or entity...In your example, you are grieving how your CoC (a specific person in your CoC, actually) applied that policy toward you.

 

[Chargersfan]

It's only 3 months. Perhaps you are confusing this with the 4 months that are afforded to the IA and then the FA to render a decision?


In which case, you are indeed
grieving a specific person, or entity...In your example, you are grieving how your CoC (a specific person in your CoC, actually) applied that policy toward you.

My bad, yes, sorry 90 days. I am up on my 4 month soon and had that on my mind.

And not necessarily. I submitted my grievance to no one in particular. It went through the CO for admin purposes, but I had no idea where it would wind up. The grievance admins look at it and make a determination where it should go.

 

[CountDC]

Did that app cost 60 million dollars Mr. Bigglesworth?

No, this was for the military so you must at least double it.

 

[Chargersfan]

Anyone know what happens if the IA doesn’t get back to you with disclosure at the 4 month mark? What recourse do I have?

 

[MJP]

There is no real recourse, the options are all bad. They should be asking for an extension but if you deny it then it goes to the FA who has no time limit.

You can ask them to push the file to the FA, but see above.

Most people allow the IA to make a determination (they will usually work with you back and forth first) and then if they still disagree then push to FA.