Red Chit or RW?

[RorerQuaalude]

Alrighty, on this past course BMOQ weekend I was issued an administrative warning of sorts, but I'm not sure whether it was just a red chit or an actual RW. Basically on the previous course weekend, I was given a make-up training form to take to my unit and get filled out, and bring it back for this past weekend to be processed. However it was quite impossible for me to get to my unit in the two weeks between weekends (final exams, personal issues) and as such did not have the sheet completed. When the course WO asked for the sheet I told him I didn't have it (clearly he took note of this). Now, this screw up is entirely my own fault, so clearly some kind of warning of sorts was the only acceptable thing to do, I'm by no means questioning the validity of the action, just the type. I was brought before the course officer and informed of the reason for the warning being issued and basically told to get my act together and asked how could I lead a platoon if I couldn't even get a paper signed and returned.

The form I had to sign basically stated the infraction (it was entirely printed) and was signed by me, the course officer and the OC. I do not recall any reference on the form being made to "You are warned of the following deficiencies, not having heeded previous verbal warnings" or "If you fail to correct the above mentioned deficiencies, you will be placed
on counselling and probation(C&P) or released from the Canadian Forces". I think I'd remember such strong statements. So here's where my confusion lies. The fact that the OC had to sign the sheet is leading me to believe it was an RW, because it seems to be overkill for an OC to sign a mere red chit. Since I've never actually seen a red chit before, I have no idea what one looks like, or states, for that matter. I have a feeling it was an RW, but I'm not sure. If it was an RW, I've really f*cked myself over early on in my career. Just goes to show that so far, the only things I've been good at are polishing boots, mopping floors and moving tables.

 

[pbi]

The course staff are responsible to do a couple of things (amongst many others):

a) administer proper paperwork, and keep complete records of same. "Chits" must be noted and filed as such, and RWs likewise. If not, one will become confused with another and it will be difficult (or perhaps even unfair...) to take decisive action against the candidate; and

b) make sure that all candidates understand their own progress, status, and the personal corrective efforts they must make on their own.

If you don't understand what is happening to you, or what is expected of you, or what it was that you signed, get an interview with your instructor ASAP. If that does not answer your question, ask to see the Course O. Cheers.

 

[AndrewWGrieve]

There's a new system where almost EVERYTHING is a piece of paperwork now.  What should happen on course is that you get a briefing of the administrative warning procedure system applicable on course.  I don't have the briefing on my civvy computer here, but I have it at work (I gave the briefing this summer and no one paid attention anyways *sigh*).  Anyways, it goes initial warning, final warning, and then... I can't remember, but if I did it for a candidate I had to write a big report and everything.  Anyways, a red chit now should be called a counselling, and you should receive the same paper as a warning, except it should say counselling on it.  An initial warning should be given by your course officer (that's probably what you got).  And a final warning must be given by the OC.  There is no verbal and recorded warning system on course, because those are career level administrative actions. 
Now, if you understood that last piece, you might have gotten the idea that you (generally) cannot get career level administrative actions on course.  So if you got a final warning, that doesn't carry back to your unit as a recorded warning.  It just goes on your course file.  Big deal.  It says in an archives for five years then gets destroyed. 
The current form system we use might be an LFWA thing only, so disregard this if you're not in LFWA, but if you're in LFWA the form they are giving you should say nothing about counselling and probation.  Actually, no form for officer should say C&P anyways... I believe it's "report of shortcomings" or something like that for an officer.  Anyways, they should check their admin procedure on that.  If you're too scared to tell them, I can always send them an informative email anonymously through the system if you believe they are using the wrong procedure and do not want to get in trouble.

 

[George Wallace]

YoungOfficer

Please get your facts right or don't post.  You have added to the confussion.  There should be a Candidate Course Folder in which there is a Chit system set up which is a means to record both good and poor performance of a course candidate.  There are Weekly Assessments which will record that candidates progress compiled from those Chits and and these inform him/her of any shortcomings, which he/she will sign. 

The Warning System includes Verbal Warnings, Initial Warnings, Formal Warnings and Final Warnings.  Those stages of Warnings are usually followed in order, however, at any stage of training a Candidate can skip Warning stages if the situation so warrants.  For instance, for a serious weapons infraction such as an Negligent Discharge a Candidate can be placed on Formal Warning, skipping all other Warnings.  These Warnings are also compiled in the Candidates Course Folder and again mentioned in their Weekly Assessment. 

The Candidate's Course Folder contains all their Good and Bad Chits, Sick Chits, Tests, Test Scores, any Warnings, all Weekly Assessments and such.  It is from this folder that all Course Report information will come from.  In the case of a Redress of Grievance, this folder is held and is all the documentation that will show whether or not the Candidate has any just cause for such a grievance.  Currently at the CAS all Candidates Crse files are so well documented, there is little chance of winning any Redress for Failure of a Crse.

This whole thread was about a misunderstanding of what kind of "Warning" he had signed and the best advice given was for him, if he did not understand or know, to go and ask for clarification.

GW

 

[2FERSapper]

Working on a BMQ right now as a 2ic and i can tell you, all you have to do is ASK. We have everything and i mean everything recorded so well in the course files it would be a matter of seconds to show you how a candidate is at a certin level of the warning system, standards is constantly checking files so we have to keep on top of them. verbal warning is no longer a part of the warning system just to let you all know. the Order nowadays is inital warning, formal warning, CI's referal and PRB. What i think young officer was refering to is what they are now doing in Quebec. They dont have the warning system anymore apparently and have replaced it totally with counsiling. Whatever i dont know for sure so dont quote me on it but if they are any instructors from Quebec im sure they could give you a defint answer on that. But as to agree with those before me if you want answers all you need to do is ask. If you dont ask your instructors to explain it to you they will assume you have understood whats happening and carry on. Instructors cannot read minds (contrary to some recruits beliefs) and they cannot communicate telepathicly. Bring up any and all of your questions and they will answer them.

 

[pbi]

Actually, no form for officer should say C&P anyways... I believe it's "report of shortcomings" or something like that for an officer.

ROS is gone. Officers are placed on C&P. I know...I've done it. Cheers.

 

[Love793]

Sounds to me like it was the second step of crse Warning action (Chit System), having been there myself a couple of times.   Basically, don't do it again or you'll probably have a nice visit with the CI.   Some infractions go straight to "Formal" warnings.   Failure of a leadership task would be one of them.   Having not seen the warning, or been there when it was served I can't verify it.   However if it had me issuing it, I would have at least typed it out.   I wasn't there so I won't second guess. ;D Good Luck, Learn From it, and Soldier On.

 

[aesop081]

If it had been an RW you would not be in doubt..beleive me...i signed 4 in 5 minutes last Feb...........