- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 50
Posted by Gunner <randr1@home.com> on Wed, 12 Apr 2000 18:38:15 -0600
Mike, Mike, Mike, you‘ve been in Meaford too long:
There is an old adage within "indirect fire circles" that any monkey can
"shoot". To compare a MFC to a FOO is like comparing pioneers and
engineers, etc, they can‘t be compared. I could take a private from St
Jean and in the manner of 30 mins to an hour, teach him the basics of
indirect fire theory up to and including hitting the target. Picking
a grid isn‘t rocket science...which is why the Artillery allows Infantry
to use mortars....
Mortars are an excellent weapon, for what it was designed for, that
being to provide a limited indirect fire resource the Bn Comd can draw
upon. Used for smoke missions and limited preparatory fire is fine,
but, if you are going into a battle based on a mortar fire plan, you
might as well start writing letters to the families of your soldiers....
The disadvantages of Mortars are many, however, too name a few off the
top of my head....Mortars don‘t have the logistical tail ammunition to
maintain a high rate of fire. Secondly, it is not flexible enough
indirect wpn to fireplan. Third, it is inaccurate for Gods sake how
long does it take to adjust a target! and has a long time of flight.
Fourth, mortar baseplates are extremely vulnerable to Counter Battery
fire. Fifth a mortar pl doesn‘t have the arty comd and con framework to
enable it to easily tap into resources of the CS Regts, GS Regt, and GSR
Regts...as well as Naval Gun Fire, Attack Avn, and Fast Air.
Unfortunately, most officers in the CF don‘t realize the benefit a FOO
or BC is to them. Indeed they have your attitude of a MFC does the same
thing a FOO does...definitely not the case at all.
The Artillery brings one thing to the battlefield and that is MASSIVE
AMOUNTS OF FLEXIBLE FIREPOWER. No other element does this with the
degree of flexibility the Artillery can. No one doubts the shock action
of modern MBTs. The defensive capability of a dug in Inf Bn. No one
should doubt the Firepower of the Artillery.
As an aside, only the Russians realized the benefit of Artillery
Firepower based on their experiences during WWII. The US, after the
Persian Gulf War, realized their mistake in not having enough artillery
and reorganized many Regular and National Guard Units into the
Artillery.
I don‘t know if you were ever on RVs/BC Fireplanning Crses/Divisional
shoots in Canada or the US, but if you have ever seen a Division of Guns
or more fire on one concentrated target...THATS FIREPOWER!...and in
the space of 30seconds you can move that FIREPOWER to different targets
that are kilometers apart. Just like achieveing air supremecy, if you
have Artillery supremancy on the battlefield, you control what moves and
what dies!
Up the Guns!
Gunner sends.....
Michael O‘Leary wrote:
>
> Hear, hear,
>
> As an "old" mortarman, I can certainly attest to the levels of skills that
> can be acheieved in infantry indirect fire. I would have put my Fire
> Controllers up against any FOO any day. They proved themselves time and
> again.
>
> PLFus mortars - 1979-1982
> 2RCR Mortars - 1984-1986
> If Sch Adv Mor Cell - 1988-1990
>
> Mike
>
> At 10:45 PM 4/11/00 EDT, you wrote:
> >
> >What about a mortar pl? Food for thought.
> >>From: "Scott Lloyd"
> >>Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> >>To:
> >>Subject: Re: Dropshorts and RMC
> >>Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2000 20:55:23 -0300
> >>
> >>Anyone can point a tanks barrel in the air and see where it lands.... even
> >>the infantry can do that with 50 cals...but to make it count is a
> >>completely
> >>different story....
> >>Scott
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>From: Wyn van der Schee
> >>To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> >>Date: April 11, 2000 1:24 AM
> >>Subject: Dropshorts and RMC
> >>
> >>
> >> >Ian Edwards wrote on Mon, 10 Apr 2000 20:47:48
> >> >
> >> >>No, just the pbi. The taste is all in my mouth. I expected one cavalry
> >> >>buff on this net to respond but he has much on his plate these days.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >I‘m not going to get into this pissing contest about precedence, but a
> >> >check of CFAOs should settle the argument. Perhaps whoever does it should
> >> >share the infoprmation with the rest of us. As to gunner black magic, I
> >> >recall learning to fire a squadron of Centurion tanks in the indirect
> >>role
> >> >at Meaford on a warm autumn day more years ago that I care to remember.
> >>We
> >> >didn‘t do AA or SSM stuff it would have taken another day or so to learn
> >> >that. The instructor was an IG RCAC. Didn‘t see any gunners - they were
> >>all
> >> >nine miles back - but there lots of pbi who liked what we did.
> >> >Wyn van der Schee
> >> >Calgary
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >--------------------------------------------------------
> >> >NOTE: To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> >> >to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> >> >to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> >> >message body.
> >> >
> >>
> >>--------------------------------------------------------
> >>NOTE: To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> >>to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> >>to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> >>message body.
> >
> >______________________________________________________
> >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
> >
> >--------------------------------------------------------
> >NOTE: To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> >to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> >to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> >message body.
> >
> >
>
> Michael O‘Leary
>
> Visit The Regimental Rogue at:
> http://regimentalrogue.tripod.com/index.htm
>
> Change is not to be feared. Simultaneously, change is not necessarily
> improvement. An effective leader improves through change. An ineffective
> leader seeks improvement through change. The first is sure of his
> end-state, the latter never is. - MMO
> --------------------------------------------------------
> NOTE: To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> message body.
--------------------------------------------------------
NOTE: To remove yourself from this list, send a message
to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
message body.
Mike, Mike, Mike, you‘ve been in Meaford too long:
There is an old adage within "indirect fire circles" that any monkey can
"shoot". To compare a MFC to a FOO is like comparing pioneers and
engineers, etc, they can‘t be compared. I could take a private from St
Jean and in the manner of 30 mins to an hour, teach him the basics of
indirect fire theory up to and including hitting the target. Picking
a grid isn‘t rocket science...which is why the Artillery allows Infantry
to use mortars....
Mortars are an excellent weapon, for what it was designed for, that
being to provide a limited indirect fire resource the Bn Comd can draw
upon. Used for smoke missions and limited preparatory fire is fine,
but, if you are going into a battle based on a mortar fire plan, you
might as well start writing letters to the families of your soldiers....
The disadvantages of Mortars are many, however, too name a few off the
top of my head....Mortars don‘t have the logistical tail ammunition to
maintain a high rate of fire. Secondly, it is not flexible enough
indirect wpn to fireplan. Third, it is inaccurate for Gods sake how
long does it take to adjust a target! and has a long time of flight.
Fourth, mortar baseplates are extremely vulnerable to Counter Battery
fire. Fifth a mortar pl doesn‘t have the arty comd and con framework to
enable it to easily tap into resources of the CS Regts, GS Regt, and GSR
Regts...as well as Naval Gun Fire, Attack Avn, and Fast Air.
Unfortunately, most officers in the CF don‘t realize the benefit a FOO
or BC is to them. Indeed they have your attitude of a MFC does the same
thing a FOO does...definitely not the case at all.
The Artillery brings one thing to the battlefield and that is MASSIVE
AMOUNTS OF FLEXIBLE FIREPOWER. No other element does this with the
degree of flexibility the Artillery can. No one doubts the shock action
of modern MBTs. The defensive capability of a dug in Inf Bn. No one
should doubt the Firepower of the Artillery.
As an aside, only the Russians realized the benefit of Artillery
Firepower based on their experiences during WWII. The US, after the
Persian Gulf War, realized their mistake in not having enough artillery
and reorganized many Regular and National Guard Units into the
Artillery.
I don‘t know if you were ever on RVs/BC Fireplanning Crses/Divisional
shoots in Canada or the US, but if you have ever seen a Division of Guns
or more fire on one concentrated target...THATS FIREPOWER!...and in
the space of 30seconds you can move that FIREPOWER to different targets
that are kilometers apart. Just like achieveing air supremecy, if you
have Artillery supremancy on the battlefield, you control what moves and
what dies!
Up the Guns!
Gunner sends.....
Michael O‘Leary wrote:
>
> Hear, hear,
>
> As an "old" mortarman, I can certainly attest to the levels of skills that
> can be acheieved in infantry indirect fire. I would have put my Fire
> Controllers up against any FOO any day. They proved themselves time and
> again.
>
> PLFus mortars - 1979-1982
> 2RCR Mortars - 1984-1986
> If Sch Adv Mor Cell - 1988-1990
>
> Mike
>
> At 10:45 PM 4/11/00 EDT, you wrote:
> >
> >What about a mortar pl? Food for thought.
> >>From: "Scott Lloyd"
> >>Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> >>To:
> >>Subject: Re: Dropshorts and RMC
> >>Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2000 20:55:23 -0300
> >>
> >>Anyone can point a tanks barrel in the air and see where it lands.... even
> >>the infantry can do that with 50 cals...but to make it count is a
> >>completely
> >>different story....
> >>Scott
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>From: Wyn van der Schee
> >>To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> >>Date: April 11, 2000 1:24 AM
> >>Subject: Dropshorts and RMC
> >>
> >>
> >> >Ian Edwards wrote on Mon, 10 Apr 2000 20:47:48
> >> >
> >> >>No, just the pbi. The taste is all in my mouth. I expected one cavalry
> >> >>buff on this net to respond but he has much on his plate these days.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >I‘m not going to get into this pissing contest about precedence, but a
> >> >check of CFAOs should settle the argument. Perhaps whoever does it should
> >> >share the infoprmation with the rest of us. As to gunner black magic, I
> >> >recall learning to fire a squadron of Centurion tanks in the indirect
> >>role
> >> >at Meaford on a warm autumn day more years ago that I care to remember.
> >>We
> >> >didn‘t do AA or SSM stuff it would have taken another day or so to learn
> >> >that. The instructor was an IG RCAC. Didn‘t see any gunners - they were
> >>all
> >> >nine miles back - but there lots of pbi who liked what we did.
> >> >Wyn van der Schee
> >> >Calgary
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >--------------------------------------------------------
> >> >NOTE: To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> >> >to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> >> >to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> >> >message body.
> >> >
> >>
> >>--------------------------------------------------------
> >>NOTE: To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> >>to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> >>to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> >>message body.
> >
> >______________________________________________________
> >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
> >
> >--------------------------------------------------------
> >NOTE: To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> >to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> >to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> >message body.
> >
> >
>
> Michael O‘Leary
>
> Visit The Regimental Rogue at:
> http://regimentalrogue.tripod.com/index.htm
>
> Change is not to be feared. Simultaneously, change is not necessarily
> improvement. An effective leader improves through change. An ineffective
> leader seeks improvement through change. The first is sure of his
> end-state, the latter never is. - MMO
> --------------------------------------------------------
> NOTE: To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
> to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
> message body.
--------------------------------------------------------
NOTE: To remove yourself from this list, send a message
to majordomo@cipherlogic.on.ca from the account you wish
to remove, with the line "unsubscribe army" in the
message body.