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Question of the Hour

Dan,
you are correct in that the book indicates that it should have been an 'Imperial claim'. But then on page 173 it is stated that Barker was not even awarded the VC winner stipend. I think that judging by the issues Ralph brought forth Barker at this point in his life was 'outraged' and 'humiliated' and having difficulty dealling with "......long time bureaucrat(s) with no flying experience." The other issue is the documented changes in Barkers behaviour that suggest like so many others PTSD. Hence no Imperial claim.

It also seems there were two distinct ways of joining the RFC. The first mentioned in the book was by "secondment' such as the case of Major Frederick Wanklyn who was already serving in the Royal Artillery and the Barker case of a "commission into the General List and Royal Flying Corps as a temporary 2nd Lieutenant. However this occurred prior to Barker being 'officially' released from the 1st CMR and the CEF.(pg. 33) As to the issue you raise of this happening to other serving members ie. RFC, RNAS and the RAF, Ralph points to due to administrative obstacles by unit Commanding Officers, "only a tiny percentage of the CEF's veterans in France and Belgium ever made it into the RFC."(pg. 26) And then how many of those actually survived, did not get wounded or had 'significant' independent financial means such as Bishop, Birk, Wemp thus not needing post war medical care.

As to the Winnipeg General strike I caught some of the CBC's coverage of "Protest Song and Dance The Winnipeg General Strike of 1919 is hitting the stage". In the documentary a couple of PhD's are attempting to discover if money raised for the use of reestablishing veterans under various funds was actually used to finance the prosecution of those who participated participated in the march. This appears to be fact with "While the Workers Defense Committee raised money across Canada from Canadian workers, the federal cabinet dipped into funds appropriated under the Soldiers Resettlement Act to provide nearly a quarter of a million dollars (in today¹s terms well over several million dollars) to finance the Citizens Committee's private legal campaign." "The federal government had no appropriation from parliament for these expenses. The money was made available through Orders in Council from the Soldiers Resettlement Fund appropriated by parliament to deal with the costs of demobilization after the Great War."(Black and Chaboyer)  Did this money ever get returned ?

source:

Black, Errol., Chaboyer, Jan. "Conspiracy in Winnipeg: How the 1919 general strike leaders were railroaded into prison and what we must do now to make amends". http://www.mfl.mb.ca/a38.shtml

Protest Song and Dance The Winnipeg General Strike of 1919 is hitting the stage. http://www.cbc.ca/arts/theatre/strike.html

 
 
A midsummer wake up call:
Who was the first Canadian General to command a Canadian Division, British Divison and US Divison and the name of the operation?
 
3rd Herd said:
A midsummer wake up call:
Who was the first Canadian General to command a Canadian Division, British Divison and US Divison and the name of the operation?

A guess.  Was it Harry Crerar with Operation Veritable, the Rhineland, 1945?  Of course, there were several
British divisions with the Canadian Corps as well as Dutch and Polish and the Yanks, I think.
 
pidd said:
A guess.  Was it Harry Crerar with Operation Veritable, the Rhineland, 1945?  Of course, there were several
British divisions with the Canadian Corps as well as Dutch and Polish and the Yanks, I think.
Close but no, and sorry I lumped the Polish in with the British rather than recognizing their individual units.
 
Athur Currie during the 100 Days campaign in 1918. I do remember that the US II Corps was under British command in the Amiens sector and at one time one of their Divisions came under Monash’s command, so it’s possiblethe the other US (and a British) Division was under command of the other shock troops Corps.
 
Danjanou said:
Athur Currie during the 100 Days campaign in 1918. I do remember that the US II Corps was under British command in the Amiens sector and at one time one of their Divisions came under Monash’s command, so it’s possiblethe the other US (and a British) Division was under command of the other shock troops Corps.
Glad to see you back, wrong war, finished unpacking your "suitcase" yet. ;D
 
Okay...is it 'Operation Pheasant' when Guy Simmonds led in the liberation of Achtmaal, the autumn 1944?
 
pidd said:
Okay...is it 'Operation Pheasant' when Guy Simmonds led in the liberation of Achtmaal, the autumn 1944?
again close but no cigar.  ;D ;D

The answer:

"Dubbed Operation Suitcase, this important task of protecting 2nd Divison's rear line was being pursued by divisons from four different countries: great Britian, Poland, the United States and Canada all under command of the 1st Canadian Army...........This was the first time that an American unit had ever served under Canadian command."

the General was Guy Simmonds. The US Divison: 104 US Infantry Divison "Timberwolves"

Source:
Whitaker and Whitaker, Tug of War:The Canadian Victory That Opened Antwerp pgs. 204-205
 
3rd Herd said:
again close but no cigar.  ;D ;D

The answer:

"Dubbed Operation Suitcase, this important task of protecting 2nd Divison's rear line was being pursued by divisons from four different countries: great Britian, Poland, the United States and Canada all under command of the 1st Canadian Army...........This was the first time that an American unit had ever served under Canadian command."

the General was Guy Simmonds. The US Divison: 104 US Infantry Divison "Timberwolves"

Source:
Whitaker and Whitaker, Tug of War:The Canadian Victory That Opened Antwerp pgs. 204-205

3rd Herd...I like a good cigar!
According to the official combat history of the US 415th Regiment of the 104th Infantry Division 'Timberwolves', a part of which has been posted on a Dutch site http://members.home.nl/oostvogels/Liberation.htm  the actual name of the Operation was 'Pheasant' with the code name 'Suitcase' and it was indeed a part of the liberation of Achtmaal led
by Guy Simmonds.
 
pidd said:
3rd Herd...I like a good cigar!
According to the official combat history of the US 415th Regiment of the 104th Infantry Division 'Timberwolves', a part of which has been posted on a Dutch site http://members.home.nl/oostvogels/Liberation.htm  the actual name of the Operation was 'Pheasant' with the code name 'Suitcase' and it was indeed a part of the liberation of Achtmaal led
by Guy Simmonds.

Close enough for Government work Padre, you can raid my humidor....... as soon as I get in unpacked. 8)
 
Danjanou said:
Close enough for Government work Padre, you can raid my humidor....... as soon as I get in unpacked. 8)

Splendid, Danjanou, splendid.  Thank you. 
I'll see if I can find that old bottle of Hennessy XO from the bishop to go with it. ;D
 
pidd said:
3rd Herd...I like a good cigar!
According to the official combat history of the US 415th Regiment of the 104th Infantry Division 'Timberwolves', a part of which has been posted on a Dutch site http://members.home.nl/oostvogels/Liberation.htm  the actual name of the Operation was 'Pheasant' with the code name 'Suitcase' and it was indeed a part of the liberation of Achtmaal led
by Guy Simmonds.

Okay we send email off to Whitaker's publisher telling him to correct his information. Keegan does that with every new edition of his works. But I like Whitaker as he was CO of the RHLI when this all going on. One of his or maybe Copps quotes "the only problem with official military history is it is contemporary, collaborative and complementary and written by senior officers." ;D

Feel free to toss something out.
 
3rd Herd said:
Okay we send email off to Whitaker's publisher telling him to correct his information. Keegan does that with every new edition of his works. But I like Whitaker as he was CO of the RHLI when this all going on. One of his or maybe Copps quotes "the only problem with official military history is it is contemporary, collaborative and complementary and written by senior officers." ;D

Feel free to toss something out.

The Whitakers are terrific and this is such a small thing.  I've googled both 'Operation Suitcase' and 'Operation Pheasant' and they appear to be interchangeable depending on the writer.  The '60th Anniversary' booklet of the Second World War in the UK does refer to 'Operation Suitcase' http://www.veterans-uk.info/pdfs/publications/comm_booklets/scheldt.pdf
The Dutch references appear to prefer 'Pheasant'. 

I wonder why.
 
pidd said:
The Whitakers are terrific and this is such a small thing.  I've googled both 'Operation Suitcase' and 'Operation Pheasant' and they appear to be interchangeable depending on the writer.  The '60th Anniversary' booklet of the Second World War in the UK does refer to 'Operation Suitcase' http://www.veterans-uk.info/pdfs/publications/comm_booklets/scheldt.pdf
The Dutch references appear to prefer 'Pheasant'. 
I wonder why.
you may have answered your own question "they appear to be interchangeable depending on the writer."
 
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