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Quebec Election: 4 Sep 12

As we get closer to 4 Sep 12 the polls might be more meaningful. This report, reproduced under the Fair Dealing provisions of he Copyright Act from the Globe and Mail, says that the provincial Liberals have fallen to third place:

My emphasis added
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/caq-ahead-of-liberals-in-new-quebec-poll/article4499135/
CAQ ahead of Liberals in new Quebec poll

RHÉAL SÉGUIN
Quebec City — The Globe and Mail

Published Saturday, Aug. 25 2012

The Parti Québécois is maintaining its lead in the Quebec election campaign, according to a poll released Saturday. The new poll also shows for the first time the upstart Coalition Avenir Québec ahead of the Liberals, who continue their slow decline.

Despite four televised debates this week that each attracted about 1.5-million viewers, the party standings have barely changed from pre-debate polling, indicating that voters were unmoved by the confrontations. The lively leaders debate and the one-on-one duels with the leaders of the three major parties did little to persuade voters one way or the other.

The poll conducted by Léger Marketing for the QMI news agency shows Pauline Marois’s PQ leading with the support of 33 per cent of voters, ahead of the CAQ at 28 per cent and the Liberals struggling at 27 per cent.

The PQ support remained unchanged from the Léger Marketing poll released eight days ago, just before the first leaders’ debate. But François Legault’s CAQ and Jean Charest’s Liberals switched places. The Liberals dropped 1 per cent compared with the last Léger poll. The CAQ increased its support by 1 per cent, even though Mr. Legault was considered by most – 21 per cent – to have won the debates.

The survey was conducted on-line Thursday and Friday among 1,929 eligible voters. The internet users were chosen randomly from a pool of approximately 185,000 households. A sample this size is considered accurate within 2.2 per cent, 19 times out of 20.

The survey took place during a critical moment of the campaign, when the PQ came under fire for its controversial Quebec citizenship proposal, which would bar newcomers who don’t adequately speak French – either immigrants or those arriving from the rest of Canada – from seeking public office .

At the same time, Ms. Marois reversed a party position allowing for a citizen-initiated referendum on sovereignty. Even if citizens met the requirement of signing up 15-per cent of eligible voters to support a referendum on sovereignty, Ms. Marois said she would ask the National Assembly to veto the motion if she believed it wasn’t in Quebec’s best interest to proceed.

Given the timing of the poll, it may be difficult to gauge whether these issues played a role in the voter intentions expressed by those surveyed.

Among the vital francophone voters, who will decide the fate of the election, the poll suggests that Mr. Charest faces what may be an insurmountable challenge as the campaign heads into the final week before the Sept. 4 vote. While the PQ was at 38 per cent among francophone voters, the CAQ was slowly closing the gap with the support of 31 per cent of francophones, a four percentage point increase from the last poll. At just 18 per cent among francophone voters, the Liberals have a gruelling task ahead of them.

If the Liberals remained at 27 per cent on election night, it would be their worst showing ever, pollster Jean-Marc Léger told the Journal de Québec. Mr. Léger also noted that the numbers indicate the PQ would form a minority government, but much of that will depend how the vote splits in key ridings.

“There has been little movement on the part of voters,” Mr. Léger told the Quebec City daily. “The debates confirmed the vote. We are still in a three-way race.”

Mr. Charest’s support was concentrated in large part among the staunchly federalist non-francophone voters, mainly in Montreal. The Liberals have the support of 67 per cent of non-francophone voters, far ahead of the CAQ at 15-per cent according to the poll. The survey also showed that the Liberals dominated among those aged 65-years and older and were behind the other two parties in all other age groups.

As previous polls have shown, the PQ and the CAQ are locked into tough races in the voter-rich ridings just north of Montreal, as well as some ridings on the city’s south shore of the St. Lawrence river.

In the ridings north of Montreal, the PQ was ahead with 36 per cent of those polled, ahead of the CAQ at 30 per cent. Ms. Marois also leads on the south shore, where her party has the support of 34 per cent of eligible voters polled, compared with the CAQ’s 26 per cent.

Close races were also taking place in the Quebec City region, where the CAQ appears to have a stranglehold. At 46-per cent the CAQ has almost twice as many supporters as the other two parties. The numbers, however, may include the ridings located on the south shore of Quebec City where the former Action démocratique du Québec party dominated. This is the same region that elected four of the five Conservatives in Quebec in last year’s federal election.


Some analysts are saying that the CAQ offers Quebecers a new alternative to the stale federalist/separatist split: a capitalist party that is disinterested in the Constitutional debate. The Liberals have been in power too long ... Quebecers, it seems to me, are a lot like other Canadians, they (like we) don't vote FOR a party, mostly they vote AGAINST the currently governing gang of thieves and imbeciles, regardless of ideology.
 
A PQ minority with CAQ as official opposition might be interesting.
 
Former Parti Québécois premier Jacques Parizeau is one of those (relatively few) Quebecers for whom sovereignty is the only issue and he will stop at nothing, including supporting parties other than the one he led, to get it. His support of an Option Nationale candidate has, according to this report which is reproduced under the Fair Dealing provisions of the Copyright Act from the Globe and Mail, "created havoc with PQ Leader Pauline Marois’s efforts at winning a majority government":

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/elections/parizeaus-endorsement-of-maroiss-rival-harms-pq-push-for-majority/article4499300/
Parizeau’s endorsement of Marois’s rival harms PQ push for majority

RHÉAL SÉGUIN
Grandes-Piles, Que. — The Globe and Mail

Published Saturday, Aug. 25 2012

Former Parti Québécois premier Jacques Parizeau’s public endorsement of Jean-Martin Aussant, leader of the newly-founded pro-sovereignty party Option Nationale, has created havoc with PQ Leader Pauline Marois’s efforts at winning a majority government.

Mr. Parizeau donated $200 to Mr. Aussant’s campaign and urged all those who support sovereignty to back Mr. Aussant’s re-election bid in the riding of Nicolet-Yamaska, located about 150 kilometers east of Montreal.

Mr. Parizeau stopped short of backing Option Nationale outright, a party spokesperson said. But his endorsement of Mr. Aussant’s candidacy reinforces the skepticism some sovereignists hold regarding Ms. Marois’s true desire to achieve political independence.

Ms. Marois responded by appealing to all sovereignist and progressive forces to support the PQ if they wanted to rid Quebec of Jean Charest’s Liberals.

“If we want to move forwards with our project of achieving a country we need a PQ majority government,” Ms. Marois insisted. “I have a great deal of respect for Mr. Parizeau… But we are the only true alternative to the Liberals.”

Mr. Parizeau’s comments could harm the PQ efforts of winning a majority government, especially if sovereignists hesitate to support Ms. Marois. A public opinion poll released today indicated that support for the PQ remained idle while the Coalition Avenir Québec was slowly attracting a greater number of francophone voters.

The poll, conducted by Léger Marketing for QMI news agency, showed the PQ leading with the support of 33 per cent of voters, ahead of the CAQ at 28 per cent. With 27 per cent, the Liberals were in third place for the first time.

Among the crucial francophone voters who will decide the fate of the Sept. 4 election, the PQ was at 38 per cent with the CAQ was slowly closing the gap with the support of 31 per cent, a four percentage point increase since the last Léger poll was taken. The fight between Ms. Marois and the CAQ’s François Legault for the francophone vote underscores the nervous reaction within the PQ ranks over their former leader’s support of Mr. Aussant.

The poll indicated that the PQ was headed towards a minority government, though a majority was still in reach. But in order to achieve her objective, Ms. Marois needs to unite the sovereignist forces behind her party, a goal made more difficult following Mr. Parizeau’s endorsement of Mr. Aussant.

Mr. Aussant was elected under the PQ banner in 2008 but quit the party in June, 2011, after he lost faith in Ms. Marois’ desire to achieve sovereignty. At the time, he urged Ms. Marois to resign as leader of the PQ, saying she was too obsessed with the quest for power and had lost sight of the goal of political independence.

Mr. Aussant immediately launched his own party and adopted a platform that would have Quebec immediately govern as a sovereign nation. A constitution declaring Quebec’s independence would be drafted and put to a vote in a referendum. It was the kind of straightforward strategy Mr. Parizeau relished.

The Parti Québécois had often called on Ms. Marois to define a blueprint for governing an independent country. The party needed to “develop programs for governing an independent Quebec” even before it attempted to win the next election, Mr. Parizeau said in an interview with the Globe and Mail in June, 2010. But it never happened, he said, because too many sovereignists were obsessed with governing a province rather than preparing for independence.

Mr. Parizeau’s wife, Lisette Lapointe, shared her husband’s perspective and quit the party at the same time Mr. Aussant did to sit as an independent MNA. Ms. Lapointe has since decided to leave active politics but has publicly supported Option Nationale, often campaigning by Mr. Aussant’s side.

Option Nationale has barely registered in public opinion polls, attracting the support of about 2 per cent of voters. However, Mr. Aussant needs to win in his own riding if he hopes to have any influence over the course of the sovereignty movement should Ms. Marois win the election.


I know a couple of Parizeau 'clones:' Quebecers who care little about the actual terms of independence so long as they have the trappings. One acquaintance of mine said that, before he died, he wanted to see a sign, in French, at the border, saying "Bienvenue Au Québec" with arrows - one for "citoyens" and another, in English, for "foreigners," like Canadians.
 
E.R. Campbell said:
Former Parti Québécois premier Jacques Parizeau is one of those (relatively few) Quebecers for whom sovereignty is the only issue and he will stop at nothing, including supporting parties other than the one he led, to get it. His support of an Option Nationale candidate has, according to this report which is reproduced under the Fair Dealing provisions of the Copyright Act from the Globe and Mail, "created havoc with PQ Leader Pauline Marois’s efforts at winning a majority government":

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/elections/parizeaus-endorsement-of-maroiss-rival-harms-pq-push-for-majority/article4499300/

I know a couple of Parizeau 'clones:' Quebecers who care little about the actual terms of independence so long as they have the trappings. One acquaintance of mine said that, before he died, he wanted to see a sign, in French, at the border, saying "Bienvenue Au Québec" with arrows - one for "citoyens" and another, in English, for "foreigners," like Canadians.

From my time living in la belle province, I would agree with this statement whole-heartedly.  Having listened to a number of separatists discuss their theories of why Quebec should be independent, it always seemed like it was more of a mental thing than a practical thing.  The majority wanted to feel that they were in charge of their own path, though the reality is that the situation on the ground would change little, and always seemed to have little grasp on A) how much the ROC helped them financially (most believe that their money supports the ROC) and B) How little the ROC actually cares about Quebec or it's politics. 

That said, I do somewhat agree with your thesis that we treat the Quebecois as inferiors.  I think the problem is that the federal government was refused to intervene in Quebecs affairs.  I believe that the average Canadian citizen views Quebecs language laws as unjust and would happily have them repealed.  As such, I believe that our lack of intervention in quebec's affairs, which essentially sell the whole "multicultural society" we try to market Canada as down the river, are more due to fear and political convenience than any sort of superiority complex.  On the flip side, the Quebecois I have met generally have a superiority complex, and believe that Quebec and its policies are vastly ahead of the ROC, particularly Alberta and the west, which they generally mock.

It is interesting, however, how quickly we would jump on the Americans if they banned Spanish in their country while allowing a part of our country to do just that.
 
An interesting, albeit slightly snarky, look at Pauline Marois and the separatists and the even worse choices in this column by Margaret Wente which is reproduced under the Fair Dealing provisons of the Copyright Act from the Globe and Mail:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/commentary/separatists-stir-up-a-nightmare-in-quebec/article4503811/
Separatists stir up a nightmare in Quebec

MARGARET WENTE
The Globe and Mail

Published Tuesday, Aug. 28 2012

If you’ve been enjoying a news-free vacation lately (highly recommended for your mental health), you may be in for a nasty shock. There’s an election in Quebec next week, and the separatists might win.

I know. It seems too awful to be true. Haven’t we driven a stake through that thing? Only months ago the Parti Québécois seemed like a pathetic rump of aging academics, left-wing journalists and other francophones nostalgic for their lost youth. Their leader, Pauline Marois, is a relic from the ‘90s – one of those women in politics who, you suspect, got the job because it was no longer worth having. Yet now the vampire is arising from its grave, and next week Ms. Marois could be premier.

Her campaign platform isn’t pretty. Although she’s basically a socialist, some of her rhetoric smacks of Europe’s anti-immigrant right wing. “Let us not yield to the intimidation of those who want to impose values that are not ours,” she declared in a campaign ad. She wants immigrants to pass a French test before they run for public office. (Originally this restriction was going to apply to people born in Quebec too, until aboriginal groups exploded in protest.) She wants to ban the display of all religious dress or symbols (except the crucifix) by anyone who works for the government. She wants to take away the right of francophone and allophone students to attend English-language junior colleges.

Critics call these policies xenophobic. Some say they amount to bloodless ethnic cleansing. At a minimum they are embarrassingly parochial, like that Hérouxville resolution a few years ago to prohibit stoning. They conjure up a tiny, fragile population in danger of being overrun by barbarian hordes that want to put all women back in burkas.

Why is Ms. Marois doing so well? Have Quebeckers lost their minds? If so, it’s hard to blame them. They’ve endured nine years of Jean Charest, a leader who’s so clapped-out, so exhausted, and so devoid of ideas that he’s still blaming the PQ for Quebec’s economic problems. The Liberal Party should have hooked him off the stage by now, but they’re exhausted too. They are engulfed in suspicions of corruption. Their only remaining supporters are the English-speaking senior citizens of Montreal, who are, unhappily, dying out. It looks as though Quebec’s Liberals, like their federal counterparts, are crawling toward the scrapheap of history.

Oh well. For every loser there’s usually a winner. This time the winner is François Legault, a recycled Péquiste who has defected from the dark side and shelved sovereigntist ambitions. In a beauty contest full of homely people, he appears to be the least homely of the lot. Which isn’t saying much. His party, the brand-new Coalition Avenir Québec, has never run a thing. Although he claims to be a capitalist, he’s really a populist, with a bunch of silly promises he can’t (or shouldn’t) keep. If elected, he vows to turf out the (extremely able) head of the Caisse de dépôt, the outfit that manages Quebec’s pension money, and replace him with somebody who’s more amenable to political interference. In which case, God help the pensioners.

Although the latest polls give the edge to Ms. Marois, no one has a clue what will happen next week. Her identity politics are so obnoxious that even some PQers are turning in their membership cards. And plenty of die-hard federalists would rather drink cyanide than vote Liberal again. Also, Quebec’s voters are notoriously fickle, and can change their collective mind overnight. (See: Layton, Jack.) I almost feel sorry for them. I thought our choices were bad here in Ontario, but theirs are worse.


It's not a pretty picture, is it?
 
Everytime elections roll around in Quebec the beating of Mr. Levesques' dead horse begins to beat out the same
old issue that was again and again dismissed by the general population.
A political party found to promote racism in some way is one that should be abolished.
They remind me of a little kid who refuses to do away with the disposable diaper, and tries everything he can possibly dream up
to convince his mother that it's the best thing.

It's over !

Don't you get it yet !

Finitos.

Lets move forward.
As far as I'm concerned, the party that promotes bilingualism has the true vision for the future of Quebec.

Which party would that be ? (I wonder)

 
The Globe and Mail's John Ibbittson discusses Jean Charest's Ignatieff moment and the consequential possibility of another Quebec election in a few months in this video which is on the Globe and Mail website.
 
Here. reproduced under the Fair Dealing provisions of the Copyright Act from the National Post, is Conrad Black's assessment of the Quebec electoral situation:

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2012/09/01/conrad-black-quebecs-real-revolution-will-come-when-it-looks-itself-in-the-eye/
Quebec’s real revolution will come when it looks itself in the eye

Conrad Black

Sep 1, 2012

The Quebec election campaign, which will end with Tuesday’s election, reflects a modern campaign tradition in which leaders ambiguously go to and fro, nibbling at the edges of issues and then retracing their steps. This past week, for instance, Liberal premier Jean Charest said he would urge Ottawa to apply Bill 101’s language strictures to the federal presence in Quebec — before backtracking. For her part, Pauline Marois dusted off a radical plan to exclude non-French speakers from elected office — before she too backed down.

My prediction is that the Quebec election will produce a result roughly analogous to that observed in Britain two years ago (which also was a three-way affair): the defeat of all parties.

In 2009, British voters routed a Labour Party that had squandered the prosperity and credibility built up by Margaret Thatcher and generally conserved by John Major. But the electorate was sufficiently skeptical about the new Conservative leader, David Cameron, with all his pandering and hokey photo-ops, that it denied him outright victory, and made him share power in the first peace-time coalition in Britain since one coopered together by King George V in 1931, with the unfeasible Liberal Democrats led by Nick Clegg, whose popularity has since descended to single digits.

Likewise, none of the Quebec parties deserves to win or has run a winning campaign, and this is part of the contemporary international trend. Even Germany, the West’s most successful country, will require Chancellor Merkel to perform some electoral gymnastics to hold her position, though she probably will, in a grand coalition with the Social Democrats, as nearly a fifth of the votes are divided between the old Communists and the “Pirates,” a cyber-anarchist/nihilist party in the most rigorous tradition of Teutonic philosophical pessimism.

Charest is the only one who makes any policy sense, as he has opposed the student demonstrations, which were an outrage in themselves and were promoted by Quebec’s unions, as well as by Marois’ Parti Québécois and the hard-line separatist Québec Solidaire. Charest has avoided insane tax proposals, though he has waffled feebly over the ancient bugbear of protection of the French language (despite the fact that polls now indicate that most of his supporters don’t speak French as their primary language).

Charest is facing the problems of being an uninspiring political operator without a large personal following. The economy is sluggish, there is plenty of evidence of financial improprieties by the regime, the province is tired of him, and he doesn’t have the sort of charisma that rekindles the faith of his partisans such as Duplessis or Trudeau possessed. While Marois fares no better in this category, the leader of the CAQ (Coalition Pour l’Avenir du Quebec), Francois Legault, at least enjoys some novelty, as a relatively new face in a new party.

Still, neither opposition party makes much sense. Marois is ambiguous about another trip to the referendary barricades; she wants to increase taxes on incomes above $130,000 and again on those over $250,000 — as well as boosting capital-gains taxes (something Legault, too, says he would do as premier). All parties want to protect Quebec companies from non-Quebec takeovers, the CAQ promises to cut electricity costs, and the PQ will impose the inevitable hydrocarbon tax. In French Quebec, leftist fads take a long time to fade.

The campaign is so lacklustre because all the parties are dancing around the Quebec problem without addressing it. Most Quebecers are not really interested in Canada, but aren’t especially hostile to it, dimly recognizing that their adherence as Canadians has been bought by transfer payments from English Canada; and they resent that fact. In their frustration at the impossibility of Quebec seceding — not only because it would be impossible to assemble a clear majority for a serious referendum question, but because it would be too harmful economically — some Quebec leaders are outbidding each other in their cultural oppression of minorities.

In the 1980 and 1995 referenda, there at least was the appearance that a bare majority on a trick question would tear the country apart, and Quebec seemed to have some ability to frighten Canada. Quebec nationalist dogma in those days was that English Canada was just an excrescence of the Anglo-Americans, whose chief purpose was to anesthetize the flowering Quebec nation, so long stifled by English money and the weakness of inadequately patriotic Québécois, but the future belonged to the true believers. René Lévesque and Lucien Bouchard — the only sovereigntists to win provincial elections, along with Jacques Parizeau — both lost faith in the project, and the Benjamin Franklin of Quebec independence, Claude Morin, proved to be an RCMP double agent.

Now Quebec has provincial debt as great as the provincial economic product. It is a public sector-heavy society that is productive only in some natural resources, and would collapse if the province seceded, as transfer payments would cease and hundreds of thousands more Quebecers would leave. The political and economic correlation of forces is shifting to Ontario and the prairies beyond; 30 more federal MPs are being added, almost all of them west of Quebec, and the collapsed French Quebec birthrate is being replaced with immigrants whose knowledge of French is marginal in many cases, and who have little interest in the parochial fetish of Quebec independence.

What is needed, and will come eventually, is a Quebec leader and party that sells full participation in Canada with retention of the French language in those regions where its numbers make that possible; an ungrudging subscription to federalism with two official languages; and a return to the undoubted pecuniary vocation of French Canadian enterprise, not the dead hand of a clumsy, pompous, imitative, stifling public sector.

Quebec and its Quiet Revolution have failed, and its politicians have failed. The real revolution will come when Quebec looks itself in the eye and realizes where its ambitions and possibilities intersect.

National Post

cbletters@gmail.com


I have to say that I agree, pretty much completely, with Lord Black's assessment, specially this bit: "Quebec has provincial debt as great as the provincial economic product. It is a public sector-heavy society that is productive only in some natural resources, and would collapse if the province seceded, as transfer payments would cease ... What is needed, and will come eventually, is a Quebec leader and party that sells full participation in Canada with retention of the French language in those regions where its numbers make that possible; an ungrudging subscription to federalism with two official languages; and a return to the undoubted pecuniary vocation of French Canadian enterprise, not the dead hand of a clumsy, pompous, imitative, stifling public sector ...[and] Quebec and its Quiet Revolution have failed, and its politicians have failed. The real revolution will come when Quebec looks itself in the eye and realizes where its ambitions and possibilities intersect.

Until the happy day comes when "Quebec looks itself in the eye and realizes where its ambitions and possibilities intersect" then I'm afraid that I agree with Good2Golf's comment that "it may very well be time to call Quebec's bluff.
 
Home run Conrad.

The money line . . .

"Most Quebecers are not really interested in Canada, but aren’t especially hostile to it, dimly recognizing that their adherence as Canadians has been bought by transfer payments from English Canada; and they resent that"
 
Quebecers vote with their feet and wallets in advance of the results according to this report which is reproduced under the Fair Dealing provisions of the Copyright Act from CTV News

http://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/fear-of-pq-win-driving-some-anglophone-quebecers-to-ontario-1.939571
Fear of PQ win driving some anglophone Quebecers to Ontario

CTVNews.ca Staff

Published Saturday, Sep. 1, 2012

With the sovereigntist Parti Quebecois leading in the polls ahead of Tuesday’s Quebec election, some of the province’s anglophones are packing up and moving to Ontario.

Many say they are worried about the prospect of a sovereignty referendum and PQ Leader Pauline Marois's proposed plan to boost Quebec’s language law, Bill 101. If elected, Marois said she would require more businesses to draw up communications in French and limit access to English junior college known as CEGEP, among other changes.

Rebecca Collett, a realtor in Hawkesbury, Ont., near the Quebec border, says many of her recent clients have been Quebecers moving to Ontario.

With polls showing strong support for Parti Quebecois, “we’re getting twice as many phone calls,” Collett told CTV News.

“The numbers have increased substantially,” she said. “People just want to leave. They say they want to move to Canada – they don’t feel Quebec is a part of Canada.”

Barbara Rousse is among those leaving Quebec, saying she does not want to live through another PQ government.

“I’ve just had it. I’ve had it with them,” she said.

Other Quebecers seem to be taking a wait-and-see approach, real estate market observers say.

Monique Assouline, a real estate broker who works in Montreal's west end, told The Canadian Press she's had both anglophone and francophone clients tell her they're not buying a home until after the election.

"Their main fear is that the PQ government will win and that the separation issue will come back up and that the prices are going to fall down," she said.

Many fear that a PQ victory will prompt an exodus of anglophone Quebecers similar to the one that occurred after the 1976 election when the party clinched a victory for the first time.

But Paul Cardinal, the manager of market analysis at the Quebec Federation of Real Estate Boards, said he’s not aware of any hesitation in the current market.

"We haven't heard about anything," he said.

At a campaign stop on Saturday, Marois addressed English-speaking Quebecers’ concerns by saying: “We'll find ways to get along.”

She also told reporters she would work to improve education for anglophones, but didn’t offer any specifics.

Real estate data shows there has been a steady increase in housing prices in Quebec between 1980 and 2011. The only years when prices dropped in both Quebec and Canada were 1995, the year the last Quebec referendum took place, and 1996.

However, the value of Quebec homes dropped to 71 per cent of the national average last year.

With a report from CTV Montreal's Rob Lurie and files from The Canadian Press


It isn't (generally older) Anglos about which Quebec (no matter who forms the government) must worry; it is young, entrepreneurial allophones who, according to a report I heard on CBC Radio News last week, are either abandoning or avoiding Quebec altogether. Mme. Marois cannot find "ways to get along" with people who are not there.

And it's not all real estate; in my opinion our colleague Good2Golf has explained Canadians' frustrations very clearly.
 
ERC

Do you equate this to the early years of the current Sovereigntist Movement when Montreal, once the 'capital' of so many corporate headquarters, saw the mass exodus of those headquarters out of Quebec to Toronto?  Montreal of the late 80's was a Ghost Town compared to the vibrant city it was 70's.
 
The exodus and the concomitant decline of Montreal started, in earnest, in about 1960, when Jean Lesage et al began the quiet revolution and founded Quebec Inc with the nationalization of the hydro-electric companies which, in its turn, gave birth to the whole maîtres chez nous thing.

The "tipping point" came with Bill 101 which was, largely, blamed for the relocation of Sun Life, then the largest employer of Anglos in Quebec, to Toronto, but the foundations were laid in 1960, by Jean Lesage. But: Toronto surpassed Montreal, in almost every important measure, before 1975 ~ the fact was, and still is, that Montreal was/is too provincial for big business; we know that many people in the technology and financial industries do not like working or living in Quebec. For example: Ericsson's decision to stay in Montreal (thanks to really generous Quebec government subsidies) has made life difficult for its R&D managers and the company's Mississauga Office has grown in size, over the years, as more and more functions are established there ~ nothing actually 'leaves' Montreal but nothing grows there, either.

This will be nothing like the the 1970s and '80s, mainly because there is no longer a very large, young and consequently mobile Anglo minority that can move, easily.

But, the CBC Radio News item to which I alluded earlier talked about young Anglos in the National Capital region who had moved to the Quebec side because of the $7.00/day daycare only to find that a) it is rarely available, b) Quebec tax rates make living there less of a bargain and c) low housing appreciation in Quebec means that their net worth has suffered. So they, the young Anglos, were "cutting their losses" and moving back to Ontario.
 
When Quebec separates, it will generate a very large staff reduction at NDHQ. Retired LGen Leslie wasted his time on his report. Quebec separation will handle the reduction at HDHQ and the other government departments.

We cannot have citizens of another country taking the jobs of Canadians can we!

Just think of all the openings that can be filled from the Indian ghettos solving another problem. Just be warned, Cree will not be the new second official language of Canada.
 
Rifleman62 said:
When Quebec separates, it will generate a very large staff reduction at NDHQ. Retired LGen Leslie wasted his time on his report. Quebec separation will handle the reduction at HDHQ and the other government departments.

We cannot have citizens of another country taking the jobs of Canadians can we!

Just think of all the openings that can be filled from the Indian ghettos solving another problem. Just be warned, Cree will not be the new second official language of Canada.


Maybe it's worth a whole thread of its own, but ...

When you talked about civil service jobs "that can be filled from the Indian ghettos" I had this immediate image:

gov2.jpg


But, our native Indians/aboriginal Canadians/First Nation peoples (or whatever) lack the education to fill all those jobs ... assuming that any of the 30% of civil service jobs that are filled by Quebecers actually need to be filled by anyone.

The problem (and maybe the new thread) is that we have failed our First Nations peoples - or maybe we have allowed their own leaders to fail them.
 
ERC:
When you talked about civil service jobs "that can be filled from the Indian ghettos" ....

True, I pictured the same, but I call our "First Nations" people Indians. I was not referring to the South East Asian "Indians", whose Civil Service is infamous. Come to think of it
our native Indians/aboriginal Canadians/First Nation peoples (or whatever) lack the education to fill all those jobs
employment of our Indians in
the 30% of civil service jobs that are filled by Quebecers actually need to be filled by anyone.
would have the same infamous result!
The problem (and maybe the new thread) is that we have failed our First Nations peoples - or maybe we have allowed their own leaders to fail them.
Well we tried to teach the Indian children to survive in a real word by educating them, teaching them a language to function in, etc and what happened. Every single one of them were abused, and because of that long ago abuse, generations of their children were abused by their abused parents/grandparents/siblings in a never ending circle of show me the money (so the Chiefs and their relatives can steal it). {Tongue firmly in cheek}.

A whole new thread so we can be called racists because we are not PC?

Across the street from me, the Westbank First Nation ( a very, very rich, well manged, self governing Indian Band) has redeveloped a beach front park. I bet the Band spent at least a quarter of a million on landscaping. The park is frost fenced off, no white people allowed. I personally have no problem with that. It is their land. Note that a huge amount of West Kelowna (Westbank) is on Indian land with more than several recently built or new big box shopping malls and housing/condos (not mine) developments. Does this mean I should not shop at the big box stores as I am bared from the Park?

 
Not sure how separation makes sense economically. Taking the more socialist and therefore lower growth route works when equalization payments prevent them from falling behind the more growth orientated provinces. After separation they lose that. The rest of Canada, and especially the high growth provinces, will then with the extra boost of being freed from sending so much money to Quebec outpace it even more. Within a decade they will be broke or will have to dismantle a lot of their socialist programs to the point of looking a lot more like the other provinces than they do now.

In short: Economically speaking separation will likely make them less distinct from the rest of Canada then they are now as part of Canada.
 
I am going to vote for the Quebec Liberals' because I want to live in Canada. I want to serve Canada. And Quebec should be part of Canada.
It is all what I can say about election in Quebec.PQ and CAQ are both separatists. I even didn't think about them.
 
This graphic, last updated Sun, 02 Sep 12, is reproduced under the Fair Dealing provisions of the Copyright Act from the Globe and Mail:

greniergraphic.jpg


It projects a bare PQ majority (63 or 125 seats) based on winning 34.1% of the poplar vote ~ of course it could, very easily, be a stronger majority of, say, 65 seats, or a strong minority of 61 seats.
 
Still a lot of undecided voters.  And we could see an upset in the polls like in Alberta.  But I think that ultimately a change is in the air.
 
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/quebecvotes2012/story/2012/09/03/parti-quebecois-referendum.html

Interesting article that brings up some of the concerns I voiced earlier.  The best scenario with a majority PQ would be that they have their referendum and end up with less support than in 1995.  That might be nail in the coffin once and for all.

Also note, there is a side bar on Mulcair and the threat that a PQ government poses for him.
 
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