Promotions in the CAF [Merged]

[m6]

I'm not sure if this is the right place for this question, but here goes.

Due to the fact that MCpl is, by definition if nothing else, an appointment, can one be promoted straight from Cpl to Sgt? Assuming all requisite courses, TI, etc.

 

[Nfld Sapper]

AFAIK, no...

 

[m6]

Thanks for the reply. I'm thinking not as well, but it crossed my mind as an interesting question. Funny when you think about it, considering Sgt IS the next higher rank.

 

[MJP]

Thanks for the reply. I'm thinking not as well, but it crossed my mind as an interesting question. Funny when you think about it, considering Sgt IS the next higher rank.

CFAO 49.4 Table 1-9 holds the answer.  Table 1 & 2 for most MOCs.  Short answer for those without DWAN is that even as an accelerated promotion you need at least 1 year as a MCpl.

 

[DAA]

I'm not sure if this is the right place for this question, but here goes.

Due to the fact that MCpl is, by definition if nothing else, an appointment, can one be promoted straight from Cpl to Sgt? Assuming all requisite courses, TI, etc.

Not unless you are a Musician.....I believe that is the only occupation in the CF that jumps a rank.

 

[dapaterson]

CFAO 49-4 is still in force for the Reg F.  A Cpl could be appointed MCpl, then a year later be given an accelerated promotion to Sgt.  Under the CFAO, that's as fast as is possible.

However, QR&O vol 1 chapter 11, section 11.02 does state "(2) In any particular instance or in any given circumstances, the Chief of the Defence Staff may direct that the requirement to meet any promotion standards be waived. "

So, in theory, the CDS could promote from Cpl to Sgt directly; I can't imagine many scenarios where that would happen.

 

[Bzzliteyr]

I don't want to brag but I was promoted from Cpl to Sgt.

Mind you, it was a month after I had been demoted to Cpl FROM Sgt and I managed to get my decision overturned.

But still, Cpl to Sgt... this guy.

 

[dapaterson]

I don't want to brag but I was promoted from Cpl to Sgt.

Mind you, it was a month after I had been demoted to Cpl FROM Sgt and I managed to get my decision overturned.

But still, Cpl to Sgt... this guy.

I think, strictly speaking, the action wasn't a promotion but a cancellation of a demotion.  Slightly different procedures.

And probably not the best way to do things...

 

[Halifax Tar]

Not unless you are a Musician.....I believe that is the only occupation in the CF that jumps a rank.

Dental techs too maybe ? 

 

[GnyHwy]

What about Geo Tech or Int?  Has there been any there?  I don't think they spend a lot of time at MCpl.

 

[dapaterson]

What about Geo Tech or Int?  Has there been any there?  I don't think they spend a lot of time at MCpl.

Those are caused by rank to rank inversions.  The Int Op structure wants more MCpls than Cpls, and more Sgts than MCpls.  Fewer WOs than Sgts, but mroe WOs than Cpl.  Thus, to keep the structure more or less filled, promotions come fast & furious at lower ranks.

 

[George Wallace]

What about Geo Tech or Int?  Has there been any there?  I don't think they spend a lot of time at MCpl.

Those are caused by rank to rank inversions.  The Int Op structure wants more MCpls than Cpls, and more Sgts than MCpls.  Fewer WOs than Sgts, but mroe WOs than Cpl.  Thus, to keep the structure more or less filled, promotions come fast & furious at lower ranks.

Depending on skill sets required, and more often whom these people may have to be briefing, you may find faster progression through the ranks of more competent members.  Although it would not be uncommon for a Geo Tech or INT OP Cpl to be briefing the CDS, you will find that at some of the lower levels of command, rank is important.  Some look at the rank, not the knowledge of the person briefing. 

We can also question why MPs are rapidly promoted to Cpl on completion of their training.  Someone, somewhere, at some time, had made the decision that a Cpl MP garnered more respect from people than a Pte MP did. 

I often wonder why the RMS Trade promotes people before they have qualifications.

This discussion can go on forever.

 

[GnyHwy]

I often wonder why the RMS Trade promotes people before they have qualifications.

I know of an RMS clerk promoted from Pte to MCpl on basic training graduation in Cornwallis, solely due to the fact the she knew how to use a computer. 

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Despite MCpl being an appointment vice rank, it is still a promotion IAW CFAO 49-4.  So is Pte (B) to Pte (T) etc.

 

[MedCorps]

Dental techs too maybe ?

Nope, entry level for a Dent Tech is Cpl.

MC

 

[garb811]

We can also question why MPs are rapidly promoted to Cpl on completion of their training.  Someone, somewhere, at some time, had made the decision that a Cpl MP garnered more respect from people than a Pte MP did. 

Really George, again? This is really stuck in your craw isn't it:

No.  This is because some brilliant mind at the top figured that his/her MP Ptes were not getting the 'respect' that they should as MPs so made the members who had the Trade Qualification instantly promoted Cpl.  Once upon a time a Cpl would have indicated that someone had some experience.  Now, a Cpl MP may or may not be experienced.  The logic as to how this gives them more 'respect' escapes me, and in fact has worked just the opposite.  Now I guess that brilliant mind will have to promote them all to Sgts.  >

...
As I understand it the 'political logic' to bring about these 'instant Cpl's' was that someone in high places felt that MP's below the rank of Cpl/MCpl were not getting the 'respect' that a LEO should get in the military hierarchy and performance of their duties.  That was before Spec Pay was approved, if I recall correctly. 
...

As was explained then, and remains the same now, it had absolutely nothing to do MP Ptes not getting respect, it was about using the pay scale of a Cpl as a recruiting incentive that was also tied into the requirement for a college diploma/spec pay.  Back in 2006 there were 18 trades that had the ability to promote their pers upon completion of Basic including those trades such as Veh Tech, Dental Tech, LCIS Tech and ATIS Tech...I suppose the whole point of the other 17 trades being able to offer that promotion as a recruiting incentive wasn't really about the money but rather about the lack of respect their Ptes were getting too, right?

If you want to hate the promotion, fine, I'm there with you, but at least hate it for the right reason(s) and stop continuing to spread the lie that it is an attempt to gain respect.

 

[PetawawaPete]

This might be possible if it is decided the Army should revert to the old systems of ranks. The MCpl rank would be replaced by Lance Cpl with the next rank being Sgt.

 

[GreenMarine]

Lance Cpl is the rank lower than Cpl, however I see the opposite happening where they would add or change the current rank and promotion scales, end the Cpl For Life (CFL) stigma perhaps?

Vice versa we could go even go the other Way and chop some rank out, to try to simplify things.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Removing MCpl and replacing with Lance Cpl and Cpl is "6 half and one dozen of the other".  Would serve no purpose other than to keep the base tailor busy and spend some tax dollars.

 

[George Wallace]

Removing MCpl and replacing with Lance Cpl and Cpl is "6 half and one dozen of the other".  Would serve no purpose other than to keep the base tailor busy and spend some tax dollars.

"Six of one; half dozen of the other".  ;D