Op IMPACT: CAF in the Iraq & Syria crisis

[Eye In The Sky]

Your post is ignorant beyond belief and insulting to the Logistics folks that kept the Canadian War Machine in Kandahar, well-oiled, fed and topped up with ammunition, some of whom paid the ultimate price.

Like the one MJP said was fuckin' flattering to crews that are putting it on the line in the JOA day after day, week after week in Iraq and (now you all know) Syria?  Please.  No one likes a double standard, so if you want to dish it out, you'd better be fuckin' able to take it back.  What does my comment back to a Log O about a comment about RCAF crews in Iraq and Syria have to do with Afghanistan exactly?  Let me answer that for you.  NOTHING.  What did I say about Afghanistan?  NOTHING.  Why are you trying to link them together; so you can be so oh-so-offended?  :

You gotta problem with that, or do you need to find a safe space?  I thought better of the post afterward, and reworded it before your post, but I got the same message for you; shove your double standard up your ass. 

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

Like the one MJP said was ******' flattering to crews that are putting it on the line in the JOA day after day, week after week in Iraq and (now you all know) Syria?  Please.  No one likes a double standard, so if you want to dish it out, you'd better be ******' able to take it back. 

You gotta problem with that, or do you need to find a safe space?  I thought better of the post afterward, and reworded it before your post, but I got the same message for you; shove your double standard up your ***.

There is no double standard, I'm an infantry officer, I accept risk as part and parcel of the job.  Do you think you should be compensated additionally because your job is "dangerous", on top of the Spec Pay, Aircrew Allowance, yadayadayada that you already receive?  Are you a ******* mercenary or a professional soldier? 

If you're the latter start acting like it. I don't think anyone should get any compensation overseas, why pay someone more to actually do their job?  If you're jealous of all the rear echelon folks hoarding all the cookies, go be one, it's a volunteer military nobody is stopping you.

 

[McG]

IMO the government should simply allow tax break on all outcan ops.

We have had pers on named missions in Naples, Brussels and Florida.  How long could we have a blanket tax exemption for international operations, compensating guys these jammy places, before the me-too envy starts demanding tax free at home?

 

[Eye In The Sky]

There is no double standard, I'm an infantry officer, I accept risk as part and parcel of the job.  Do you think you should be compensated additionally because your job is dangerous, on top of the Spec Pay, Aircrew Allowance, yadayadayada that you already receive? 

What the hell does this have to do with Dimsum and I commenting on the Syria piece being made public, and MJPs shitbrain comment directed at RCAF FW/LRP aircrew?

Are you a fucking mercenary or a professional soldier? If you're the latter start acting like it. I don't think anyone should get any compensation overseas, why pay someone more to actually do their job?  If you're jealous of all the rear echelon folks hoarding all the cookies, go be one, it's a volunteer military nobody is stopping you.

I am neither;  if you weren't so myopic about what I'll call the fighting MOCs in the entire CAF, you'd realize I am actually an Airmen.  I am jealous of no one;  I was Cbt Arms and then a support trade before going aircrew.  Via VOTP. 

I am tired of all the people who think the aircrew have it made, they're whiny, they don't actually face any danger or threat, and all that crap.  Like in OUP, the LRP crews are deep into the bad guy territory.  Do we have it the same as you crunchies when you are operating in Badlands?  Nope, and I've never said we do and I would correct any aircrew who was naïve enough to think and voice tha opinion.  But the fact is, the C Army is sitting this one out.  LRP crews are in it, and have been since the get go.  The least you could do, as an infantry officer who understands risk, is give them the respect they are due.  The respect you'd expect your own troops to get, if they were deep into the JOA doing their job.  No?  Or, does it only matter if soldiers risk their lives doing their jobs to the Infantry Officer corps.

To answer your question about my professionalism.  I had deployed, returned to Canada with enough missions for a throwing star in my log book long before they announced the HA, RA rates for Impact - Kuwait and long before they announced the whole tax free gig.  I hope that answers your questions about mine, or other, LRP aircrew 'dedication vs money money money' stuff.

Don't think I will sit back and have some Log O (or anyone, for that matter) who isn't operating over/in Iraq (not Erbil...the battlespace Iraq.  Mosul.  *Anbar Province* Iraq) or Syria make smartass comments from the bench about folks on the team that are out with their sticks on the ice. 

 

[Quirky]

We have had pers on named missions in Naples, Brussels and Florida.  How long could we have a blanket tax exemption for international operations, compensating guys these jammy places, before the me-too envy starts demanding tax free at home?

Why stop with deployments, lets make all excersises out of country tax-free.

 

[Eagle_Eye_View]

MCG

We have had pers on named missions in Naples, Brussels and Florida.  How long could we have a blanket tax exemption for international operations, compensating guys these jammy places, before the me-too envy starts demanding tax free at home

I say if it's an OUTCAN CFTPO deployment it should be tax free, regardless of location. If it's an OUTCAN posting, then yes it can be taxed. A simple change like this would boost morale massively and wouldn't cost much the government.

 

[McG]

So it is CFTPO vs posting?  We had guys posted into Afghanistan as part of the named missions during our years there, and we have guys posted onto Iraq on IMPACT now.  You would not extend tax free to such pers?

 

[Eagle_Eye_View]

You bring an interesting point. I didn't know folks were posted to Afghanistan. My approach was based on wether your family is with you or not. For example being deployed away from family = tax free. Posted OUTCAN with family = not tax free. Again if the government want to tax free all OUTCAN then I say do it. It'll make a lot of people happy.

 

[dapaterson]

You bring an interesting point. I didn't know folks were posted to Afghanistan. My approach was based on wether your family is with you or not. For example being deployed away from family = tax free. Posted OUTCAN with family = not tax free. Again if the government want to tax free all OUTCAN then I say do it. It'll make a lot of people happy.

What's the public policy imperative to do so?  There's already numerous allowances to compensate; the "military factor" on every paycheque also acknowledges that time away is an integral part of the job.  Why should six months doing what you're paid to do trigger additional benefits, absent a compelling factor such as increased risk to life and limb?

 

[McG]

And if you make it tax free for all out of Canada employment, it won't be long for the Canadian public to turn on the benefit.  Why should we be getting government funded trip to tour Europe for three years at a time with our families and be exempt taxes?

 

[MJP]

I am tired of all the people who think the aircrew have it made, they're whiny, they don't actually face any danger or threat, and all that crap.  Like in OUP, the LRP crews are deep into the bad guy territory.  The least you could do, as an infantry officer who understands risk, is give them the respect they are due.  The respect you'd expect your own troops to get, if they were deep into the JOA doing their job.  No?  Or, does it only matter if soldiers risk their lives doing their jobs to the Infantry Officer corps.

Don't think I will sit back and have some Log O (or anyone, for that matter) who isn't operating over/in Iraq (not Erbil...the battlespace Iraq.  Mosul.  *Anbar Province* Iraq) or Syria make smartass comments from the bench about folks on the team that are out with their sticks on the ice.

Son, I may be a Log O but have been in combat and don't have to justify myself to anyone nor do I care what you think.  But I only mention that because that is your problem, you have been running your mouth off like you're the only game in town and you got called on it with a bit of tongue and cheek.  Clearly that triggered you.  Respect is a two way street, you want to call down all those in the battlespace around ya regardless of where they are, then go ahead but please have your hissy fit elsewhere after you get a slap down.  Maybe go complain in the SNCO mess about that big bad MJP and his darn smartass comments. 


I respect the job that is done by all soldiers/airmen/sailors out there regardless of where they are, clearly that isn't the same for you.  No need to respond as you are on ignore and I don't want to derail the, LRP Op IMPACT thread anymore than it already is.  PMs are always welcome

 

[Eagle_Eye_View]

IMO the tax free issue would greatly benefit our members plus it would be a win for the government wrt support the troops. In the end all I'm saying is if the government is willing and it bring great benefit to our troops, let's do it! we so used to get screwed over that when something good could be provided, we turn our back on it. It truly baffles me sometimes.

 

[SupersonicMax]

I think anytime someone deploys in support or as part of an operation where there is some shooting involved (or where there is no shooting but the risk for your life is elevated by external threat, like it could be for some INT) it should be tax free.  No difference if you are supporting or operating. Hardship and risk pay should be role-dependant (ie: aircrew flying over AD would get more than guy loading bombs and missiles on the aircraft which would get more than the logistic officer back at the camp), but compared to what the tax free benefits bring, it is relatively small.

Anything that is outside of what can normally be expected in peace time should be compensated: our salary and peacetime allowances do not compensate for that, despite the "military factor".

 

[dimsum]

There is no double standard, I'm an infantry officer, I accept risk as part and parcel of the job.  Do you think you should be compensated additionally because your job is "dangerous", on top of the Spec Pay, Aircrew Allowance, yadayadayada that you already receive?  Are you a ******* mercenary or a professional soldier? 

Far be it from me to disrupt a good ol' argument, but any CF member that goes on a flight (aside from being ferried from one place to another) can apply for it as Casual Aircrew Allowance - I've had Navy folks come to Comox to see what it's like in an Aurora and got their $28/day and a whole heap of airsickness on a 10-hour patrol.

Now back to the regularly-scheduled bitchfest.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Son,

: Buddy, at 39 you were likely just finishing Grade 6 when I was doing Basic.  Save your "son/lad" stuff for the no-hook Pte's in the smoke pit or the OCdts in the mess you're hoping to impress.

you have been running your mouth off like you're the only game in town and you got called on it with a bit of tongue and cheek.

This is the IMPACT thread.    LRP is the only CAF ISR players in the MESF.  Who are the JOA players conducting operations;  AAR (none of them on here posting), LRP (a few of us on here who post that have been on Det there), TacHel (none of them posting on here) and CANSOF (none of them posting on here that I know of).  LRP and AAR are going the deepest, farthest into the JOA.  That is just fact, so what is the problem exactly with LRP folks posting the opinions here, in the IMPACT thread?  As far as ISR assets, LRP is the only CAF one in the game.  Running my mouth of?  Its just a fact.  It seems that, for some reason, is a sore spot for you at least.     

Clearly that triggered you.

What triggers me are people sitting on the sidelines, yapping at the air force when they talk about the shit they're doing.  So ya, fucktards like you trigger me.  That's not because of IMPACT, or because I'm air force, its more related to how I react to people I see as fucktards.  That's not limited to you, or Log Os.

Respect is a two way street, you want to call down all those in the battlespace around ya regardless of where they are, then go ahead but please have your hissy fit elsewhere after you get a slap down.  Maybe go complain in the SNCO mess about that big bad MJP and his darn smartass comments

I call it like I see it or like I've seen it on this op;  I've been there a few times eh?.  If you don't like my opinion, sweet, I could really care less.  If you're one of those JTSFC types I've chucked it at some...you guessed it, I could really care less again. 

For your Jnr Officer PD, its a WOs and Sgt's Mess. 

I respect the job that is done by all soldiers/airmen/sailors out there regardless of where they are

Clearly, that is the always the case.  What was I thinking...

We care as it is so cute when the fixed wing side of the RCAF makes it to a real fight, plus they never stop letting you know they are there so it is a double bonus.  Winning for everyone! 

 

[MilEME09]

Just so I can understand what you just said eye, can someone tell me what LRP, MESF, JOA, and AAR are?

 

[rnkelly]

Long range patrol
Middle East stabilization force
Air to air refuelling
Joint operations area I think

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Joint operations area I think

Yup.

 

[MilEME09]

Thanks gents, clear as mud now  :cheers:

 

[The Bread Guy]

Some of the latest, shared under the Fair Dealings bit of the Copyright Act ...

Canadian special forces have shifted their operations in northern Iraq to put pressure on ISIL in places outside Mosul, including along the border with Syria.

When the first Canadian soldiers arrived in the country in September 2014, their mission was to help train the peshmerga to stop and hold back a confident and, until then, undefeated ISIL hoard.

Kurdish forces, supported by the Canadians, then kicked off a long-anticipated attack to free Mosul, Iraq's second-largest city, from ISIL in October.

But the Kurds and their Canadian comrades stopped short of Mosul, as planned. Instead, they shifted to fighting the extremist group in other ways and let the Iraqi military enter and clear ISIL from the city.

Now a special forces officer says the Canadian mission has turned toward identifying and monitoring potential ISIL targets in the area.

That includes keeping tabs through optical sights and other means, on what he calls “key enemy movement corridors” between Iraq and Syria as well as areas inside and immediately outside Kurdish territory.

Speaking on condition of anonymity due to security concerns, the officer says such monitoring helped locate ISIL forces inside a large town that was sidestepped during the early parts of the Mosul offensive and needed cleaning up.

It also means a decline in the number of times Canadian soldiers have actually fired their weapons in recent months.