November 2015: Paris Bataclan attack/hostage taking

[Eye In The Sky]

There is no one solution.

Agreed.

I see chirping about our cf 18 s all over the net.  Our CF18s are not making a difference.  They clearly didn't prevent this.

You'll have to excuse me when I strongly disagree.  You might want to read everything on this page  and then think about the "are not making a difference" comment.  Take a few minutes.  Add up the total number of strikes they've put in and the total number of targets that have been hit. 

Also consider, the CF-18s role/job/task whatever you want to call it, is not to 'win the war from the air on their very own'.  They ARE tasked to operate within, and assist, the coalition forces in halting and degrading ISIS where possible.  THAT task they are doing.

Every single target they've struck has 'made a difference'; maybe not to you and others sitting safely at home or where ever they are when they make statements such as this.

Each and every single strike on ISIS makes a difference. 

 

[PuckChaser]

People twist the statistics and stay on the 0.03% of all strikes are CF-18s. Its not a pure numbers game, the fact that we are there, sharing the load, with whatever we can provide, means something to our allies. They know we have aging aircraft in limited numbers, so that 6-pack means a lot more than the US sending a 6-pack of aircraft.

Every strike is important like EITS said. What if one of our CF-18s is tasked in a sortie to drop a JDAM on a HVT, who happens to be Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi? Do our strikes still mean nothing despite taking out the ISIL leader?

 

[dapaterson]

But we need to also remember Nietzsche: "And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you."

I've always wondered that this meant.

My dimestore psychology: Gazing into darkness can bring out darkness within you.

(See also the line immediately preceding that one: He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster.)

 

[Underway]

France with one of the most robust immigration policies and security services could not prevent an attack. We've been lucky so far.

France is notoriously horrible at integrating immigrants.  There is a large underclass generational immigrants who are extremely angry with France, the french people and the french federalist schooling system.

Canada's best defence against extremism has been our relatively good integration policy, inclusiveness and quite frankly our irrelevance on the world stage.  By basically being a 4th rate power stuck out in the middle of nowhere geographically we're not really on ISIS radar relative to some of the big powers. 

Here's hoping that this combined with good policing does the trick....

 

[Eye In The Sky]

HOPE is not a valid COA.

hope (noun) a feeling of expectation and desire for a certain thing to happen.  (verb) want something to happen or be the case.

IMO it is far better to PLAN.

 

[Kirkhill]

3 thoughts

1 re ISIL as  a state - Israel is not universally recognized and yet is treated as such

2 re terrorism - terrorism is akin to Al Capone in Chicago,  biker wars and mediaeval brigands extorting blackmail  - it is a state of lawlessness that can only be combatted by constant, local, vigorous, and occasionally violent policing.  I feel no sympathy for dandelions.

3 re the GoC response - no matter what the youngster decides just imagine how much worse the response would have been if Harper's fascists had been in charge.
...

Apparently it is lead balloon time. For those unaware I was and am a supporter of both the Conservatives and Stephen Harper.  DAP had it in one. I am cynical enough to believe that the new government will be able to adopt the  old government's policies and everyone will sleep peacefully in their beds knowing that the world is unfolding as it should because all the oversight positions are back in the hands of the anointed.  The Natural Governing Party is back in charge.

I have already heard worried CBC commentators ask their bespoke talking heads if this means the youngster will have to go back on his word.  The response was on the order of "Well,you have to give him credit for trying."

Even Lawrence Martin is offering up" This changes everything" implying that no one could have foreseen this.  Well, at least one man was seeing this: Stephen Harper

 

[jmt18325]

Even Lawrence Martin is offering up" This changes everything" implying that no one could have foreseen this.  Well, at least one man was seeing this: Stephen Harper

He talked a good game, but he defunded his own military rebuilding strategy.  He was pretty much all talk.

 

[MilEME09]

With the bringing down of a Russian airliner two weeks ago, and now the Paris attacks, and ISIS claiming this is just the beginning, one wonders how many cells might be in Europe? and how quickly can they strike?

 

[Edward Campbell]

With the bringing down of a Russian airliner two weeks ago, and now the Paris attacks, and ISIS claiming this is just the beginning, one wonders how many cells might be in Europe? and how quickly can they strike?

Should someone, perhaps Prime Minister Justin Trudeau, be asking the same questions about cells in Canada?

I suspect this fellow can give him some answers (guesses?):

   

    Richard Fadden, National Security Advisor to the
    Prime Minister of Canada and an Associate
    Secretary to the Cabinet. Formerly Deputy Minister
    of DND and the Director of CSIS

 

[Old Sweat]

I suspect he already has.

One can only imagine, or rather make an educated guess, of how many (high-priced) people worked late Friday night and through the weekend.

 

[The Bread Guy]

I've always wondered that this meant.


My dimestore psychology: Gazing into darkness can bring out darkness within you.

(See also the line immediately preceding that one: He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster.)

Worst case scenario down this road ....

 

[Stoker]

France is notoriously horrible at integrating immigrants.  There is a large underclass generational immigrants who are extremely angry with France, the french people and the french federalist schooling system.

Canada's best defence against extremism has been our relatively good integration policy, inclusiveness and quite frankly our irrelevance on the world stage.  By basically being a 4th rate power stuck out in the middle of nowhere geographically we're not really on ISIS radar relative to some of the big powers. 

Here's hoping that this combined with good policing does the trick....

It was more about their security screening in immigration. I honestly don't think many refugees will intergrate easily and will be resistance to do so. As being a 4th rate power  There has been direct threats over the years and we should be concerned.

http://globalnews.ca/news/1575601/france-is-has-threatened-coalition-civilians/
http://globalnews.ca/news/1669711/head-of-isis-says-group-will-fight-to-the-last-man-in-new-audio-recording/
http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/isis-spokesman-calls-for-more-ottawa-style-attacks-in-canada-warning-what-lies-ahead-will-be-worse

 

[The Bread Guy]

A few updates:

• "After Paris attacks, pressure builds for big military response to Islamic State"
• "French officials have named the first shooter from the deadly attacks in Paris. He was reportedly identified by a severed finger found at the Bataclan hall ...."
• "Weapons found in 'getaway car' "
• "France names first attacker, vows to destroy Islamic State"

Military patrols are also out continue around the Eiffel Tower -- see attached.

 

[McG]

Military patrols are also out around the Eiffel Tower -- see attached.

Those three man patrols are not a new response.  They have been going on for years.

 

[The Bread Guy]

Those three man patrols are not a new response.  They have been going on for years.

Thanks for that.

 

[ArmyRick]

A really nasty and scary thought. We (the west) could go in, fight a mean fight and eventually wipe out as many ISIS fighters as possible (probably be a lot if we take the gloves off), HOWEVER, what about children they have brainwashed and warped into little anti-west jihadist?

I am thinking back to a BBC docimentary where a guy went behind ISIS lines, was given a tour and interviewed several people. The children were basically put into camps for several weeks and came out saying stuff like "Death to the west...car bombs until sharia is everywhere..etc". These "kids" are obviously a future problem. How in the world do we stop future Islamic militant group even if we wipe out every single known ISIS fighter today?

 

[Edward Campbell]

A really nasty and scary thought. We (the west) could go in, fight a mean fight and eventually wipe out as many ISIS fighters as possible (probably be a lot if we take the gloves off), HOWEVER, what about children they have brainwashed and warped into little anti-west jihadist?

I am thinking back to a BBC docimentary where a guy went behind ISIS lines, was given a tour and interviewed several people. The children were basically put into camps for several weeks and came out saying stuff like "Death to the west...car bombs until sharia is everywhere..etc". These "kids" are obviously a future problem. How in the world do we stop future Islamic militant group even if we wipe out every single known ISIS fighter today?

Many people think that the Taliban (Talib means scholar or student) and al Qaeda were, and IS** is, a direct product of the Saudi funded Wahhabi madrassas (schools) in Pakistan, especially, which were attended by tens of thousands of young boys who learned nothing except one version of the Qu'ran.

 

[George Wallace]

Those three man patrols are not a new response.  They have been going on for years.

Since 'Charlie' they can be found in all major cities in France.  I was just in Strasbourg and saw them there.

 

[Edward Campbell]

Mark Steyn has knocked it out of the park, as usual:

http://www.steynonline.com/7293/the-barbarians-are-inside-and-there-are-no-gates

But, as the Globe and Mail's Eric Reguly reports, from Paris, the European Union leaders reject that notion. He reports that:

    "A top European Union official insisted that the bloc’s refugee policy does not need to be overhauled in the wake of the attacks and urged world leaders not to start treating asylum-seekers as terrorists.

    “Those who organized these attacks, and those who carried them out, are exactly those who the refugees are fleeing,” European Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker told reporters at the G-20 summit in Turkey. “There is no need
    to revise the European Union’s entire refugee policy.”

    Poland's incoming government declared Saturday it would not accept refugees without security guarantees but Juncker urged them “to be serious about this, and not to give in (to) these basic reactions.”"

 

[paffomaybe]

A chilling and insightful take on ISIS as, essentially, an apocalyptic death cult... and why one should never underestimate that sort of appeal to the spiritually and societally disenfranchised.  Disturbing implications that wiping them out in a conventional military sense could activate widespread and disparate action.

In reviewing Mein Kampf in March 1940, George Orwell confessed that he had “never been able to dislike Hitler”; something about the man projected an underdog quality... The Islamic State’s partisans have much the same allure. They believe that they are personally involved in struggles beyond their own lives, and that merely to be swept up in the drama, on the side of righteousness, is a privilege and a pleasure—especially when it is also a burden.

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/03/what-isis-really-wants/384980/