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http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1099967861855_95377061/?hub=Canada
From the CTV news site
From the CTV news site
New Training Vessels
- Thread starter Ex-Dragoon
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NavyGrunt
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I was on a yag a month ago and they were fine. I cant see why THATS what they choose to replace, its a very basic boat. if they keep it painted and kept up I dont see why they need to replace these, its used to teach the basics of sailing to officers...
Well I guess its good that they are shelling out some dough...but I think 69 mil would have been well spent somewhere else,
Or maybe this is a case of "damned if you do, damned if you dont"....
Well I guess its good that they are shelling out some dough...but I think 69 mil would have been well spent somewhere else,
Or maybe this is a case of "damned if you do, damned if you dont"....
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I know alot of the Officer's at VENTURE (Naval Officer Trg establishment) and they all say that YAGs are way overdue for replacement. They are 50 years old, made of wood, do not conform to any modern anti-pollution laws, are unbelieveably slow and running out of spare parts.
On the other hand, they are a real nice size and can get into some small harbours.
Things will definitely change in the MARS officer trg world...
On the other hand, they are a real nice size and can get into some small harbours.
Things will definitely change in the MARS officer trg world...
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Mr. White,
Well, not all the YAGs are fine. On my MARS II practical this summer, two of 'em collided (T-boned, I think, is the proper term) and had some pretty obvious hull damange.
These new boats won't solely be used for MARS trainees though - they'll have removable guns mounted (removable so us MARS nitwits won't have an accident? probably) and be used for coast guard duties when not otherwise in use. They won't be that much bigger, either.
Personally, I'm looking forward to playing with new ships and bridges, ones where I can actually see my nav points when I take the bearings off the polaris.
Well, not all the YAGs are fine. On my MARS II practical this summer, two of 'em collided (T-boned, I think, is the proper term) and had some pretty obvious hull damange.
These new boats won't solely be used for MARS trainees though - they'll have removable guns mounted (removable so us MARS nitwits won't have an accident? probably) and be used for coast guard duties when not otherwise in use. They won't be that much bigger, either.
Personally, I'm looking forward to playing with new ships and bridges, ones where I can actually see my nav points when I take the bearings off the polaris.
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NavyGrunt
Guest
69 million could set up a proper port security system instead of 3 shads in a canoe with 1 rifle.
My time on the yags was always pleasurable. Minimal amount of crew required- it can be sailed with 2 people.....
the Oriole is made of wood as well....that doesnt make a vessel bad. And it teaches officers just what is intended- how to sail. Old doesnt mean it needs to be replaced. If they didnt comply with environmental laws they wouldnt be sailed I can assure you of that, This is another shot in the dark. Who decides the priorities of what needs to be replaced?
Im sorry you had a bad experience Miss Hardie. But new boats wont make you guys better sailors ;D.I havent had an issue. These boast arent fast enough again for coast guard duties.....so I see that as a no go as far as secondary duties.
My time on the yags was always pleasurable. Minimal amount of crew required- it can be sailed with 2 people.....
the Oriole is made of wood as well....that doesnt make a vessel bad. And it teaches officers just what is intended- how to sail. Old doesnt mean it needs to be replaced. If they didnt comply with environmental laws they wouldnt be sailed I can assure you of that, This is another shot in the dark. Who decides the priorities of what needs to be replaced?
Im sorry you had a bad experience Miss Hardie. But new boats wont make you guys better sailors ;D.I havent had an issue. These boast arent fast enough again for coast guard duties.....so I see that as a no go as far as secondary duties.
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I wouldn't quite call it a bad experience - it wasn't my YAG that collided, but I did get a front row view. Nasty cracks in the stern there were. Overall though, the YAG trip was the best part of MARS II.
MARS are supposed to be sailors? I thought we just told everyone what we wanted them to do and let them sort it out. Isn't that the point behind the infamous DeckO safety circle?
But to cut the tongue in cheek - Bos'n was my top choice if I didn't go officer. It sounded like much fun, and the YAG trip just reinforced that.
Maybe the new boats will have a top speed greater than 11 knots? One can hope.
I thought there was an option of 4 more? Maybe I'm getting my numbers mixed up. I do know there's going to be a mounted gun though.
MARS are supposed to be sailors? I thought we just told everyone what we wanted them to do and let them sort it out. Isn't that the point behind the infamous DeckO safety circle?
But to cut the tongue in cheek - Bos'n was my top choice if I didn't go officer. It sounded like much fun, and the YAG trip just reinforced that.
Maybe the new boats will have a top speed greater than 11 knots? One can hope.
I thought there was an option of 4 more? Maybe I'm getting my numbers mixed up. I do know there's going to be a mounted gun though.
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MissHardie ... any visits to Salt Spring Island yet?
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whiskey 601,
Yes, we spent a night docked in Ganges. I was on duty that night though so I didn't get to see much of the town other than the shower facilities.
I had to look up Salt Spring Island on a chart before I could remember if I'd been there or not.
Yes, we spent a night docked in Ganges. I was on duty that night though so I didn't get to see much of the town other than the shower facilities.
I had to look up Salt Spring Island on a chart before I could remember if I'd been there or not.
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MissHardie alludes to patrol duties above.
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MissHardie said:
Is that right? ... well, that's a visible change in attitude right there. What do you mean by "coast guard duties" ... 12 mile fish pat and harbour security? Cheers.
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What part of the PSS don't you like? I would take you more seriously without the sarcasm, Aaron.
You are right, wood is not "bad". It is, however, expensive and time-consuming to maintain. Ask any "yachtie"...
Fair enough comment about the sail training- but I doubt that we could talk treasury board into buying the Navy enough sailing ships to give all of our MARS officers sail exposure.
We might be talking semantics here- waste from a YAG is not "treated" in the sense that a modern sewage treatment plant would- which causes problems when in harbour and basically prevents the vessels entry into US waters (which limits training opportunities).
The nice thing about YAGs is that they were dedicated training platforms. The Orcas may find other work as well, like sovereignty patrolling, which could impact on MARS trg. The concept photos of it that I have seen shows a .50 cal mounted forward. At 20 kts, they are 5 kts faster than an MCDV- which do alot of soveriegnity patrolling now. Frankly, any Navy vessel is showing a presence and enforcing sovereignity any time they are out of Halifax and Esquimalt.
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whiskey 601,
I'll qualify my statements about the new ships by saying they're what I heard on our unit indoctrination day in September -- from the CO though, so I consider my information to be fairly accurate. I vividly remember seeing a mounted gun on the specs, so unless they've done some radical redesigning they should still be there.
Otherwise, I refer you to SeaKingTacco's post as he seems to know far more specifics on the topic than I.
mdh,
On MARS II us students aren't responsible for what happens to the YAGs (other than cleanliness). I'd imagine that if you enter into the MARS III Death Wobble and t-bone another YAG on the course you'd be in some trouble though, because then you're actually supposed to know what you're doing.
I'll qualify my statements about the new ships by saying they're what I heard on our unit indoctrination day in September -- from the CO though, so I consider my information to be fairly accurate. I vividly remember seeing a mounted gun on the specs, so unless they've done some radical redesigning they should still be there.
Otherwise, I refer you to SeaKingTacco's post as he seems to know far more specifics on the topic than I.
mdh,
On MARS II us students aren't responsible for what happens to the YAGs (other than cleanliness). I'd imagine that if you enter into the MARS III Death Wobble and t-bone another YAG on the course you'd be in some trouble though, because then you're actually supposed to know what you're doing.
A
aesop081
Guest
69 million could set up a proper port security system instead of 3 shads in a canoe with 1 rifle.
What part of the PSS don't you like? I would take you more seriously without the sarcasm, Aaron.
Seems to be a recuring theme with "Mr MP5"............
What part of the PSS don't you like? I would take you more seriously without the sarcasm, Aaron.
Seems to be a recuring theme with "Mr MP5"............
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NavyGrunt
Guest
aesop081 said:
Im sorry you feel that way. As for my "sarcasm" there wasnt any. The current PSS is a Rhib with 3 reservists(hence the SHAD comment- Im a shad its not a big deal) and 1 C7. Its not an effective model. They dont board, they are exposed to the elements more than they should be. The boats are to slow. They make due with what they have but ask anyone on the teams and they'll give you a laundry list of things they'd like improved. And it needs to be improved.
The MCDV's have been embarrased durting sovereinty patrols becuase of their speeds and these will get the same. And regarding YAGS in US waters we were in the Puget Sound with them not even 2 mos ago.
Thanks for adding your 2 cents though Aesop.
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Aaron White said:
Granted, PSS could use a better boat. I'm led to believe that those are in the works. My point was that a RHIB (with all its faults) is not a canoe. As for the doctrine side- keep making suggestions up the chain. It is the only way things change (and things do change for the better).
Didn't know about the Puget Sound trip (must have been for Ex Sea Hawk?)- that's the first US trip I have heard of in a while in for a YAG. Hope that you had fun.
I guess the final point about the speed of the Orcas is that- they are trg boats first and "operational boats" second. A slow speed gives the MARS officers a chance to learn without their heads popping off! If we need FPBs, we should purpose build them- but I have yet to see a convincing need for them. Anyone care to provide an argument in favour?
Cheers.
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